NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

[Reasonable & Just]

We have absolutely zero evidence to suggest that Daniel Penny is a racist, let alone a white supremacist, and exactly the same amount of evidence that this was a racially motivated incident.
None whatsoever, and I don't think it was for one second.

For what it's worth, I also don't think he had any malintent that day, he reacted to a situation, that's all.
I think he reacted to soon, and in the wrong way, but I don't think it was with malice. I do think that he had choices, even after he put his arm around Neely's neck and took him to the floor, and unfortunately he consistently, imo, made the wrong ones.

It's his actions in those moments, and the moments after that I have an issue with, and his demeanour afterwards gives me reason to think that he isn't sorry Jordan Neely is dead, or that he was the one who ended his life. That doesn't mean I think he is a bad guy, I don't, it just means that I think he believes what he did was right and that Jordan Neely alone is responsible for his own death, and that Penny himself did nothing wrong.

I think the filing of charges is the right thing because Penny is a trained marine, he is trained to assess a situation and the most appropriate course of action, especially in a crisis. He is trained in using chokeholds, and he knows they can easily kill, and I am willing to bet he is trained in much safer but just as effective manoeuvres to restrain someone, and he made the wrong decision, that decision cost a man his life, and Daniel Penny should be held accountable for that.

In all honesty, if he is indicted, I don't think I can call it as to whether he will be convicted, but if I'm guessing, probably not.

I hope he learns something about the value of all life from this at least, but at the moment I'm inclined to believe he isn't there yet.

All 100% just my opinion.

Very well said, and I share your hope.

 

[Jade]

It means that he embraces diverse cultures and seeks them out all over the world. He talked about other travels and his love of people and diverse cultures, e.g. Mexico and Central America, and where he was stationed overseas while in service.

jmo

As I said what does his being a tourist have to do with attacking someone in the subway?

And why is saying he "was actually planning a road trip to Africa" in the context of defending himself about killing a black guy?



All imo

 

[Reasonable & Just]

As I said what does his being a tourist have to do with attacking someone in the subway?

And why is saying he "was actually planning a road trip to Africa" in the context of defending himself about killing a black guy?



All imo

I think what's been troubling me about that statement is that Jordan Neely was an American Joe just like him. He wasn't some exotic "other". So why bring up your love for people of all cultures in all these other countries you've visited, and your plan to visit Africa as part of your nice guy credibility? I think that may rub other New Yorkers the same way. Luckily he continues to rake in the dough, so he should hire a media rep.

 

[Sundog]

As I said what does his being a tourist have to do with attacking someone in the subway?

And why is saying he "was actually planning a road trip to Africa" in the context of defending himself about killing a black guy?



All imo

It's hard for people to defend themselves when the public through social media and other venues accuses someone of being a white supremacist or a racist. It's a kind of "dam*ed if you do" and "dam*ed if you don't" situation. I think Mr. Penny was trying to address these accusations that have been vicious on social media. Not everyone will like how he expressed himself, and that can't be helped. He made an effort to defend himself against the accusations of racism, etc.

And he didn't appear to be a tourist when he travelled, I don't think that is a fair assessment of his travels. A road trip is unlike tourists who fly in and out of regions of the world.

 

[Sundog]

As I said what does his being a tourist have to do with attacking someone in the subway?

And why is saying he "was actually planning a road trip to Africa" in the context of defending himself about killing a black guy?



All imo

I don't think the interview was about Mr. Penny was defending himself regarding the death of Mr. Neely. That will be done by his attorneys in a court of law.

 

[Jade]

I don't think the interview was about Mr. Penny was defending himself regarding the death of Mr. Neely. That will be done by his attorneys in a court of law.

Well, yeah, if it comes to that.

But you yourself posted "he made an effort to defend himself":

>>>>>>for focus>>>>>>>

He made an effort to defend himself against the accusations of racism, etc.

And he didn't appear to be a tourist when he travelled, I don't think that is a fair assessment of his travels. A road trip is unlike tourists who fly in and out of regions of the world.

A tourist is more than the mechanics of travel.

He didn't mention being on a church mission building a school or such so he was touring, a tourist.

All imo

 

[Sundog]

d

But you yourself posted "he made an effort to defend himself":

<snipped for focus>

I posted that he defended himself regarding the public's charge that he is a racist or white supremacist - not the second degree manslaughter charge.

 

[everybodhi]

It's hard for people to defend themselves when the public through social media and other venues accuses someone of being a white supremacist or a racist. It's a kind of "dam*ed if you do" and "dam*ed if you don't" situation. I think Mr. Penny was trying to address these accusations that have been vicious on social media. Not everyone will like how he expressed himself, and that can't be helped. He made an effort to defend himself against the accusations of racism, etc.

And he didn't appear to be a tourist when he travelled, I don't think that is a fair assessment of his travels. A road trip is unlike tourists who fly in and out of regions of the world.

Doing a soft ball interview with a media outlet that has numerous articles that support him probably won’t change minds either way but the publicity may get him to the $3 million mark in donations. Jmo

 

[Jade]

<snipped for focus>

I posted that he defended himself regarding the public's charge that he is a racist or white supremacist - not the second degree manslaughter charge.

I'm sorry that I misunderstood your point.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... those who kill the mentally ill homeless should be prosecuted. What the Marine did was sadistic and unacceptable; it even looked like he was enjoying strangling Jordan. <modsnip>

Let us look at it from a different angle. Who should take care of mentally I’ll homeless? There are no such places. On SM, I inevitably run into posts where people are angry with the homeless. In early 90es, where would a homeless with PTSD be? In a mental hospital. Today? Even if he managed to get into a mental hospital, it will be for a few days only. The poor guy probably hoped to get into a jail, at least three meals a day, but the jails are full. It is hopeless. The ex-marine probably did what he was taught to do, another side of PTSD. If I could take a wild guess, not knowing anything about the marine, whether it was a racially motivated act, I’d say, no. But, he probably hates homelessness of big cities…

 

[Charlot123]

More of this type of thing is going to continue to happen in cities that are are overrun with mentally ill homeless people. People don't feel safe and are told to just put up with people threatening and screaming at them. It's scary as hell, especially being a woman, when I have homeless go off on me for walking by. People are tired of it, and unfortunately, are going to start taking the law into their own hands. The humane thing to do would be to get people into inpatient treatment. They need help and leaving them to the streets shouldn't be the solution. <modsnip>

Blame those or the one who initiated closure of state mental health hospitals in the 90es… in NYC homeless are less noticeable than in San Francisco or Seattle. (Or Vancouver, BC). I can see that every first one has mental issues.

 

[everybodhi]

Vigilante violence disproportionately harms marginalized communities: Researchers

The vigilante self-assigns the role of judge, jury and executioner, deciding who is breaking the law and enacting their punishment without the oversight of the criminal justice system, researchers say.

"There's an alarming amount of violence associated with vigilantism," said Bateson. "It's really important to emphasize that vigilantism is a human rights problem. Vigilantes are violating the rights of their targets. There's no proportionality in vigilantism. It's very common that the punishment doesn't fit the crime."

 

[Charlot123]

Sounds like it was a good thing that fine young Marine was there.

Jordan Neely's arrest record examined as outrage grows ov...

Neely, 30, died after he was restrained by other riders on a Manhattan subway, including one who put him in a chokehold for several minutes.

www.newsweek.com

Maybe not. One has to look at the seasonality of incarcerations. If most of them happened in autumn-winter, consider that the season is cold in NYC. I think half of them could be self-initiated.

 

[Charlot123]

Vigilante violence disproportionately harms marginalized communities: Researchers

The vigilante self-assigns the role of judge, jury and executioner, deciding who is breaking the law and enacting their punishment without the oversight of the criminal justice system, researchers say.

"There's an alarming amount of violence associated with vigilantism," said Bateson. "It's really important to emphasize that vigilantism is a human rights problem. Vigilantes are violating the rights of their targets. There's no proportionality in vigilantism. It's very common that the punishment doesn't fit the crime."

There are two sides to it. One, every able-bodied employed man is secretly scared to end on the street. Second, homeless steal. I know a lot. One came to my office to offer me something he stole! I ordered food from a local restaurant and fed him instead; he was very hungry. I don’t know what he did with the stolen stuff afterwards.

So the situations like the one happened in Seattle several years ago, when a man living in an apartment shot a car prowler and the only reaction from other renters who came out was, “high time”, is not unusual.

My kid had to call the police to his nice part of Bay Area twice. When I asked, why, you don’t call the police unless it is absolutely necessary, he said, the homeless going through the thrash bin was stark naked, and moms with young kids were around, so he didn’t know what to do. The second case was even worse, but of the same type. So I watch people (my kid is very liberal, participated in protests against Floyd killing, for example) get irritated as time goes by. I don’t know what to do - but probably, hold the politicians accountable.

This being said, I don’t think that cities with more homeless around are worse. Probably, better, as there might be more support to the homeless there. I think my neighboring city, Seattle, is trying.

 

[Deleted member 287549]

Following up on several points/posts:

The reason this issue resonates so much with people is that it's so incredibly relatable. Many of us take/have taken public transportation & had to deal with mentally ill/homeless/threatening people - especially on trains. And, NO ONE who takes public transportation & is just minding their own business should be subjected to threats of violence without provocation - whether or not these threats are actually carried out.

<modsnip - no link from an approved source to statement made as fact>

 

[MyBelle]

Let us look at it from a different angle. Who should take care of mentally I’ll homeless? There are no such places. On SM, I inevitably run into posts where people are angry with the homeless. In early 90es, where would a homeless with PTSD be? In a mental hospital. Today? Even if he managed to get into a mental hospital, it will be for a few days only. The poor guy probably hoped to get into a jail, at least three meals a day, but the jails are full. It is hopeless. The ex-marine probably did what he was taught to do, another side of PTSD. If I could take a wild guess, not knowing anything about the marine, whether it was a racially motivated act, I’d say, no. But, he probably hates homelessness of big cities…

In this case, it is NYC's governmental system that failed JN. That's very unfortunate but we all know no government is perfect. JN wasn't in jail because the prosecutor cut him a plea deal and JN broke the terms.

That said, Penny had no way to know JN was homeless and even if he did, it wouldn't have mattered. This case is no different to me than those of mass shooters who resort to violence and end up dead. JN had a history of violence against total strangers. He had attacked an elderly woman and broke several bones in her face! If JN had survived, he would be in jail awaiting trial.

Penny reacted to the threats of violence JN inflicted at Penny and others present. An elderly woman who was present has hailed Penny as a hero. I think the grand jury will give her testimony and that of other witnesses' a lot of weight. Especially the others who assisted Penny in trying to restrain JN. None of them have been charged with a crime.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 287549]

Sad & realistic story - and this is an EXTREMELY good point here. I.e., to all those who have said that if someone is violent/threatening on the train that "all you have to do is move away from them & then the problem is solved".....not necessarily. If you get up and move, you may just set the other person off & then make matters worse. By the same token, sometimes making eye contact will also set them off. So, in essence - you can't win. I.e., if you sit there & do nothing - the person is in your face & that's obviously a problem. However, if you get up & move - that may seriously escalate the problem.

I've mentioned this before & I'll mention it again: Those of us who have taken public transportation (especially in major metropolitan areas) for any length of time - have typically & unfortunately encountered a lot of people like JN on the train. And, if you've never taken public transportation before and/or haven't encountered violent/homeless/mentally ill people (whether on public transport or in other situations) - then you have absolutely no idea how potentially dangerous these types of situations can get.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Doing a soft ball interview with a media outlet that has numerous articles that support him probably won’t change minds either way but the publicity may get him to the $3 million mark in donations. Jmo

Frankly, I hope it hits 20 million. Shoot, even 50 million.

His attorneys have stated publicly that any funds over the amount needed for legal defense fees and expenses, will be given directly to a NYC mental health advocacy program.

Maybe the money can be used to prevent the next someone with a violent history and severe mental illness from being the next sad headline in the news.

Daniel Penny legal fund raises nearly $2m after he is charged over Jordan Neely’s death

Daniel Penny was charged with manslaughter after he used a lethal chokehold on Jordan Neely on an F train on the Broadway-Lafayette platform in Manhattan

ca.sports.yahoo.com

 

[MyBelle]

Frankly, I hope it hits 20 million. Shoot, even 50 million.

His attorneys have stated publicly that any funds over the amount needed for legal defense fees and expenses, will be given directly to a NYC mental health advocacy program.

Maybe the money can be used to prevent the next someone with a violent history and severe mental illness from being the next sad headline in the news.

Daniel Penny legal fund raises nearly $2m after he is charged over Jordan Neely’s death

Daniel Penny was charged with manslaughter after he used a lethal chokehold on Jordan Neely on an F train on the Broadway-Lafayette platform in Manhattan

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Good point! Those programs are essential when the mentally ill/homeless <modsnip - not victim friendly>
JMO

From your link:

However, Neely’s family hit out at Mr Penny and his statement, saying that he did not know anything about Neely when he grabbed him.

“In the first paragraph he talks about how ‘good’ he is and the next paragraph he talks about how ‘bad’ Jordan was in an effort to convince us Jordan’s life was ‘worthless,’” the Neely family’s attorneys Donte Mills and Lennon Edwards said.

“The truth is, he knew nothing about Jordan’s history when he intentionally wrapped his arms around Jordan’s neck, and squeezed and kept squeezing,” they added.

 

[everybodhi]

Frankly, I hope it hits 20 million. Shoot, even 50 million.

His attorneys have stated publicly that any funds over the amount needed for legal defense fees and expenses, will be given directly to a NYC mental health advocacy program.

Maybe the money can be used to prevent the next someone with a violent history and severe mental illness from being the next sad headline in the news.

Daniel Penny legal fund raises nearly $2m after he is charged over Jordan Neely’s death

Daniel Penny was charged with manslaughter after he used a lethal chokehold on Jordan Neely on an F train on the Broadway-Lafayette platform in Manhattan

ca.sports.yahoo.com

I also hope they keep donating so there is some left over for mental health advocacy after the attorney’s bill which will hopefully include a big settlement paid out in the inevitable future civil suit by Neely’s family. Jmo.

Legal Fund For Man Who Fatally Choked Jordan Neely Tops $2 Million As He Gains Conservative Support
Daniel Penny’s legal team established the online fund to pay their client’s legal fees and for any future lawsuits.