NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

[JennieM]

He has already chosen to serve our country once, so who knows, he may decide to serve as LE in the future.

But I am not sure why you are associating "vigilante" with LE or the military.

I am not associating them. I am juxtaposing them.

 

[Recidivist]

Moo..what to do..do you warehouse people that cannot control their emotions? Dope them up so they are compliant. Or just let them starve an live an die street life?

They can follow in the footsteps of Palm Springs, CA. and open a center that provides clean needles and .... a clean crack pipe. Progress in government.

"Free syringes, crack pipes, and other drug supplies are currently being handed out in Palm Springs, and they'll also soon be available in vending machines. "

Free needles and crackpipes: In-depth look at Palm Springs' harm reduction program - KESQ

Free syringes, crack pipes, and other drug supplies are currently being handed out in Palm Springs, and they'll also soon be available in vending machines. News Channel 3's Peter Daut took a closer look at the new harm reduction program, which is generating strong opinions. In a Palm Springs...

kesq.com

 

[Sundog]

Meaning what exactly? Are they the judge? Have they cleared him? Will this case not go to court because some people think he is amazing and have given him some money?

I was quoting from the MSM article that you posted. <modsnip>

 

[Lilibet]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> They were very serious crimes for which Mr Neely would have been punished by the judicial system. But since no one died, they were certainly less serious than second degree manslaughter…recklessness resulting in death…which is what Penny is charged with. <modsnip> There was no reason for Penny to put Mr Neely in a lengthy chokehold resulting in his death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

No. There were witnesses to the events of this case. Many witnesses. Either they will tell a convincing account of the terror they lived through, or they won't. There's no need for the prejudicial account of past victims of Neely.

New York law allows it. Many witnesses have said JN was the aggressor. New York law allows it:

4.11 Character Evidence1 (1) Admissibility. Evidence of a person’s character is not admissible to prove that the person acted in conformity therewith on a particular occasion EXCEPT:

(c) In a criminal proceeding where the defendant interposes a defense of justification based on the defense of self or another:
(i) evidence of the victim’s reputation for violence and prior specific acts of violence by the victim against the defendant or others, if known to the defendant and reasonably related to the crime charged, is admissible on the issue of the defendant’s belief of the necessity of defending himself or herself or another person from impending harm;

(ii) evidence of the victim’s prior threats against the defendant, whether known to the defendant or not, is admissible to prove that the victim was the initial aggressor;

https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/evidence/4-RELEVANCE/ARTICLE%204%20RULES.pdf

 

[Lilibet]

New York law allows it. Many witnesses have said JN was the aggressor. New York law allows it:

4.11 Character Evidence1 (1) Admissibility. Evidence of a person’s character is not admissible to prove that the person acted in conformity therewith on a particular occasion EXCEPT:

(c) In a criminal proceeding where the defendant interposes a defense of justification based on the defense of self or another:
(i) evidence of the victim’s reputation for violence and prior specific acts of violence by the victim against the defendant or others, if known to the defendant and reasonably related to the crime charged, is admissible on the issue of the defendant’s belief of the necessity of defending himself or herself or another person from impending harm;

(ii) evidence of the victim’s prior threats against the defendant, whether known to the defendant or not, is admissible to prove that the victim was the initial aggressor;

https://www.nycourts.gov/judges/evidence/4-RELEVANCE/ARTICLE%204%20RULES.pdf

You are replying to a post that states that witnesses to prior violent acts are allowed by NY law.
You quoted from the law allowing evidence of a person’s character being admitted in certain circumstances, but they don’t apply in this case:

Quoting (c) (i) evidence of the victim’s reputation for violence and prior specific acts of violence by the victim against the defendant or others, if known to the defendant and reasonably related to the crime charged, is admissible on the issue of the defendant’s belief of the necessity of defending himself or herself or another person from impending harm;

There is no evidence so far that Penny knew about Mr Neely’s prior violent acts toward others, or had himself been a victim of Mr Neely’s prior violent acts, so there would be no relevance for witnesses to testify to any prior acts.

(c) (ii) “evidence of the victim’s prior threats against the defendant, whether known to the defendant or not, is admissible to prove that the victim was the initial aggressor.”

The threats by Mr Neely would have to be directed at Penny according to this section. It is not clear if those “prior threats” would have to be prior to the encounter on the train or immediately prior to Penny initiating a chokehold. If immediately prior AND the threats were directed at Penny, this evidence of character could be admitted by witness testimony. But it’s by no means known yet whether threats against Penny occurred.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed.

Do NOT send any more alerts or PMs and check back tomorrow.

 

[Knitty]

Thread is open.

Please control your temper; remember that you don't have to respond to every single post that disagrees with you, and you REALLY don't have to report every single post that disagrees with you. Every member here is allowed to have an opinion - it's how you express your opinion that makes all the difference.

 

[IDK]

Exactly. This part of the interview is so disturbing. I’m sure he’s following his attorney’s instructions, but I did not see any real humanity toward Mr Neely when he distances himself by saying:

When asked what he would say to the family of Jordan Neely, whose funeral was Friday, Penny looked somber, carefully choosing his words.

“I’m deeply saddened by the loss of life,” he said. “It’s tragic what happened to him. Hopefully, we can change the system that’s so desperately failed us.”
———————-

“The loss of life,” “what happened to him,” SAY HIS NAME, PENNY! SAY HIS NAME!

“I’m deeply saddened by the loss of life.it’s tragic what happened”

I totally agree with his statement — it is tragic.
I think folks knew who he was referring to, since he was being interviewed about Jordan’s death.

 

[mickey2942]

How do we know that Neely was having a "mental health crisis" at the time of his death? Has this been confirmed by any experts?

 

[Lilibet]

How do we know that Neely was having a "mental health crisis" at the time of his death? Has this been confirmed by any experts?

Mr Neely was well known by the City for his mental health issues. However, his behavior on the train that day was not officially diagnosed, because he was dead by the time EMTs arrived. So the passengers, including Penny, would have used their experience with other apparently mentally ill passengers to draw that conclusion based on his behavior and words. But no, this was not confirmed by experts.

 

[Sundog]

How do we know that Neely was having a "mental health crisis" at the time of his death? Has this been confirmed by any experts?

We don't know if Neely was having a mental health crisis, we just know from witnesses in the subway car that he was acting in an erratic and threatening manner.

 

[mickey2942]

We don't know if Neely was having a mental health crisis, we just know from witnesses in the subway car that he was acting in an erratic and threatening manner.

Maybe that is how he usually acted. Someone can be mean, unruly, say things that are threatening, and that is just the person that they are. It isn't always "mental illness" to be a mean jerk.

 

[Ontario Mom]

How do we know that Neely was having a "mental health crisis" at the time of his death? Has this been confirmed by any experts?

No, it has not been confirmed by anyone.
Nor did anyone on that subway car know him (that I'm aware of), or know that he even might have been having one.
All they knew, was there was a dude yelling threatening, violent things.
That's all the information anyone had that day.

jmo

 

[IceIce9]

How do we know that Neely was having a "mental health crisis" at the time of his death? Has this been confirmed by any experts?

AFAIK we don’t know, the behavior he displayed was most likely indicative of either a person with a mental health issue or a drug issue.

The danger to rescuers or anyone who tries to help a person with this type of behavior is that they can be very combative, often with superhuman strength.

 

[kittythehare]

AFAIK we don’t know, the behavior he displayed was most likely indicative of either a person with a mental health issue or a drug issue.

The danger to rescuers or anyone who tries to help a person with this type of behavior is that they can be

'Superhuman strength' has become a trope.

Mary Moriarty discusses it in depth here regarding the George Floyd trial.

This was right up there with trying to goad Donald Williams into becoming an “angry Black man” in court, describing the compassionate people who tried their very best to help Floyd as some kind of angry mob that “distracted Chauvin from caring for George Floyd,” and the descriptions of Floyd as big and high on drugs (another big, scary Black man who might suddenly exhibit superhuman strength.) The defense made this argument even after we all saw the Cup Food’s video of Floyd laughing, dancing, hugging, and enjoying what would be the last minutes of his life.

Observations from a long, consequential trial

In my 31 years of experience as a public defender watching bodycam and listening to my clients, I know that his behavior is the product of a poisonous culture.

spokesman-recorder.com

https://twitter.com/HennepinAtty

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Maybe that is how he usually acted. Someone can be mean, unruly, say things that are threatening, and that is just the person that they are. It isn't always "mental illness" to be a mean jerk.

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. He was a diagnosed schizophrenic so there's that, and people who knew have said he was a friendly guy.

 

[Ontario Mom]

AFAIK we don’t know, the behavior he displayed was most likely indicative of either a person with a mental health issue or a drug issue.

The danger to rescuers or anyone who tries to help a person with this type of behavior is that they can be very combative, often with superhuman strength.

As a WS verified EMT, I will take your word for it.
I can't even imagine the kind of stuff you folks see and deal with every day.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. He was a diagnosed schizophrenic so there's that, and people who knew have said he was a friendly guy.

I have no doubt he could be friendly.
But I also know he has a violent criminal history.
I would imagine it was a variety of factors that could cause him either to react violently or be friendly.

 

[IDK]

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. He was a diagnosed schizophrenic so there's that, and people who knew have said he was a friendly guy.

Part of the tragedy is that his friends and family, who speak so highly of him, were not able to help him. IMO.