NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[Tiff23fr]

(Within a few days of the windfall journal entry)
October 24:

Cyberattack at UnitedHealth subsidiary Change Healthcare affected 100M Americans​

The scope of the February data breach is apparently a record and fits within the range previously suggested by the company’s CEO.

Cyberattack at UnitedHealth subsidiary Change Healthcare affected 100M Americans

The scope of the February data breach is apparently a record and fits within the range previously suggested by the company’s CEO.

www.startribune.com

 

[Friday Fan]

Here ya go:
An entry dated August 15 says that “the details are finally coming together,” according to the complaint.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html

Oct 22. For the actual targeting of the investors' meeting in NYC.

S

Post in thread 'NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*'

Dec 19, 2024

Ok, so maybe they haven’t cracked those devices yet. Thank God for that notebook.

Some new photos there, and evidence of months of planning. If he’s talking about things coming together in August, but procrastinating before that, then that indicates that this was in his mind for a lengthy period of time.

View attachment 552818

So LM selected the health care industry because it "checked all the boxes." It could have been another industry and another CEO. No wonder there are terrorism charges (at state level).

ebm

• Sundog

• 

 

[theonewithallthequestions]

Thank you!

Honestly, I am utterly baffled as to why more people here aren't seeing this. Firearm murders in NY happen way too often (I could grab the statistics but it's an easy Google) and how many of them result in first degree murder charges, terrorism, federal + every other possible charge?
Again I will clearly state that nobody has the right to take another person's life and my sympathies go out to BT's loved ones, but why is Brian Thompsons life worth more than for example Thomas Washington who was shot and killed in the Bronx last year? His killer barely got a blip of the charges seen in this case. What about the search for the shooters than happened in the Bronx on Monday? Where is the urgency, the global media reports, the huge manhunt?
Like at what point do we actually take a moment here to think wtf?! Who gives anybody a right to say who's life is worth more than anothers? Just because one is a 'nobody" and the other is a CEO of a huge private healthcare insurance company the latters life is worth more?! Where is the line where we ask ourselves that question? All I see is hypocrisy and elitism here and believe me, I've tried so hard not to.

I, like many of you have been in the sleuthing world for decades so I took understand charge stacking, I was expecting it to a degree as I wouldn't blame the DA being somewhat rattled in this case and they obviously want some charges to stick so they're stacking... What I can't understand is the sheer overkill of it. I've never seen this amount of overcharging before and I can't help but believe here that the reasonings for throwing the entire book at this lad is because they're being made to prove some point here by whatever higher ups, they're humiliated or they're going bonsai at a lad who's committed (I hate saying this) a pretty much bog standard murder all because of the public reaction to it.

Someone if possible please show me sources of where this amount of charges have been dished out before over the years on a (again I hate saying it) pretty straightforward firearm murder, as I would love to be educated. Please show me a similar case where terrorism charges have been brought when the only scraps of an indication of a motive of terror was freely released by the LE/DA (the words on the casings & the "manifesto"/letter to feds) and no public terror was incited otherwise or at all. Show me where a singular stranger murder resulted in all of these charges PLUS federal charges to boot. Please.

They've gone and made a simple man Vs man murder trial into a man + the vast majority of American citizens Vs American healthcare insurance trial with all of these charges as they've bulldozed the door to presenting motive off it's hinges.

Baffling.

All MOO and I apologise if I've ruffled any feathers with my opinions.

IMO it’s not a matter of Brian Thompson’s life being worth more, but as CEO of a big company he was a high profile individual (whether fair or not, that’s always going to draw more attention, pressure, snd resources) and he was targeted because of that very reason.

Frankly I’m a little shocked people think the charges are overkill considering what LM did and the fact that he had a manifesto. I think he did cause public terror in the fact that many people thought, and some even encouraged, more executives would be targeted. Companies had to take down their leadership pages as a precaution and I think there was a real fear/possibility of LM acting again if he hadn’t been caught. And now based on the reaction on social media, there is a very real fear of copycats.

I will say that if they hadn’t found a manifesto, the terrorism charges would have been harder to justify.

 

[Sundog]

Here is the complaint

UNITED STATES OF AMERICAv.LUIGI NICHOLAS MANGIONE:

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/mangione-healthcare-shooter-federal-indictment.pdf

<snipped for focus>

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. LUIGI NICHOLAS MANGIONE

Good to see this.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I think the hate crime enhancement would be easy to prove in the example I posted. And a real terrorism charge. Did they even try to apprehend the murderer in that case?
But there is no logical "terrorism enhancement" for LM's murder.

You can't, imo, say here's the law, but I wish that 1st degree murder would be applied because if this were elsewhere it would be. So, instead we'll stretch out the terrorism charge to fit something it was never meant to fit. A murder where the suspect couldn't even fire 2 bullets in a row.
Not picking on you, we agree on other things, but not this.

Respectfully, didn’t understand the point about a murder suspect ‘where the suspect couldn’t even fire 2 bullets in a row.’

IMO, that wasn’t because he wasn’t trying to do so. IIUC, it was due to the weapon the suspect chose. The one that LM made as I understand? So that it might not be traceable or registered? And that supposed gun IIUC was prone to either jamming and / misfiring.

And others IIRC described that the shooter seemingly calmly kept ‘reloading’ the gun for the shots that killed BT. I don’t recall exactly how many shots that LM got in to slay his target.

I have no sympathy for LM in the least. None. And I hope that any and all charges can be laid on him. IMO this suspect has demonstrated by his actions that he is not suitable to enjoy the freedoms that law abiding citizens earn and abide. MOO

 

[Tiff23fr]

The bottom right of Page 8. The wrapper thing. What is that?

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/mangione-healthcare-shooter-federal-indictment.pdf

 

[Baba O'Riley]

Sickening, if you think about it, how transparent they’re being that *we* don’t deserve the same justice and protection *they* do…

As a lifelong NYCer, I don't see it that way. NYC may be very liberal when it comes to voting, but it is somewhat provincial and conservative when it comes to business and commerce. This was an assassination of a big-time corporate CEO. If corporate CEOs are going to be offed on the streets of New York, that could have a very deleterious effect on business, commerce, tourism, and New York's status as a world capital. Alvin Bragg is one of the most, if not THE most, liberal DAs in the country, and even he seems to see what implications this assassination would have if the book isn't thrown at LM. So I see this not so much as "rich CEO gets better treatment as a murder victim than the little guy" than as a preventative measure against future assassinations.

 

[NuttMegg]

Respectfully, didn’t understand the point about a murder suspect ‘where the suspect couldn’t even fire 2 bullets in a row.’

IMO, that wasn’t because he wasn’t trying to do so. IIUC, it was due to the weapon the suspect chose. The one that LM made as I understand? So that it might not be traceable or registered? And that supposed gun IIUC was prone to either jamming and / misfiring.

And others IIRC described that the shooter seemingly calmly kept ‘reloading’ the gun for the shots that killed BT. I don’t recall exactly how many shots that LM got in to slay his target.

I have no sympathy for LM in the least. None. And I hope that any and all charges can be laid on him. IMO this suspect has demonstrated by his actions that he is not suitable to enjoy the freedoms that law abiding citizens earn and abide. MOO

If he's a terrorist, why use a weapon that can't even shoot 2 bullets in a row.
That will come up in his defense, mark my words.

 

[Columbo Was The Best]

As a lifelong NYCer, I don't see it that way. NYC may be very liberal when it comes to voting, but it is somewhat provincial and conservative when it comes to business and commerce. This was an assassination of a big-time corporate CEO. If corporate CEOs are going to be offed on the streets of New York, that could have a very deleterious effect on business, commerce, tourism, and New York's status as a world capital. Alvin Bragg is one of the most, if not THE most, liberal DAs in the country, and even he seems to see what implications this assassination would have if the book isn't thrown at LM. So I see this not so much as "rich CEO gets better treatment as a murder victim than the little guy" than as a preventative measure against future assassinations.

New York's status as a world capital? That is mentioned in many articles but it is obviously not a fact but an opinion and as such, something subjective.

 

[Arkay]

We can condemn this assasination while simultaneously advocating for all victims of violence. I personally believe it’s deeply dangerous to justify this unequal application of the law.

I take your point; we are all equal and deserving of justice, should we be murdered. I agree in principal.

IMO though it is not that we have here an “unequal application of the law.”
It is more an unequal application of publicity.

I’m a lifelong New Yorker. If I were murdered, LE would try to find the culprit, but only those who love me would consider it newsworthy.

Not to diminish them as human beings, but a great proportion of the murders committed in NYC proper are gang-related, or domestic violence, or something else which give the police a more narrow field of perpetrators.

This murder was a murder mystery. It took place on a world-renowned stage. It was filmed in real time.

The media is going to latch on to a case like that.

I do in fact have extended ex-in-laws of my sister’s who were murdered…the daughter killed her mother and grandmother with a police nightstick. It made the newspapers for maybe a day due to the human interest factor of a female family annihilator.

But despite not being in the spotlight, she was arrested, found guilty, and is in prison.

As there was no implied threat to anyone else, she had lesser charges than terrorism.

As long as justice was done, the remaining family did not complain that the media gave it only half a day.

JMO and experience.

 

[MassGuy]

If he's a terrorist, why use a weapon that can't even shoot 2 bullets in a row.
Betcha that comes up in his defense, mark my words.

Why does the weapon matter at all? Terrorists use all sorts of different weapons, to include knives for instance.

The type of weapon is not an element of the charge.

It’s the motivation of the suspect that matters.

 

[10ofRods]

I was under the impression that the December 4th conference was for institutional investors. Of course the invitees learned of the event long before November, but how did LM get these details prior to the public press release (which does not mention a specific location in NYC)? Are regular shareholders (if LM even is one) notified of these conferences as well?

The SEC might not need to be notified of an invitation-only event. However, while looking through recent communications between UHG and SEC, I found that UHG had apparently notified the SEC of a cyberattack:

Document

Of course, they don't say what was leaked or stolen. But it did make me wonder. It appears that UHG sent a message to SEC saying that the attack was not significant enough to affect the company's profitability etc:

SEC responds to them with:

“the Company has not determined the incident is reasonably likely to materially impact the Company’s financial condition or results of operations.” Additionally, we note your letter dated June 14, 2024 indicated that as of that date, “the In an entry marked Oct. 22, 2024, the writings said, "1.5 months. This investor conference is a true windfall ... and -- most importantly -- the message becomes self evident."Company has not concluded the cyber incident to be material or reasonably likely to be material.” Please confirm that, in future filings, where you have not determined if the incident has had a material impact to the company or is reasonably likely to have a material impact to the company, including its financial condition and results of operations, you will consider filing disclosures under Item 8.01 of Form 8-K, rather than Item 1.05 of Form 8-K.

Weird. I assume that another method LM could have used (to know when to arrive in NYC) is to look at the usual past dates for this annual investors conference. Apparently the main presentation in 2023 was on Nov 21.

Do we actually know the date when LM arrived in NYC? (I assume we do!)

But if he was on reddit, there were many ways he could have interacted with an investor who did have an invitation on one of the many stock-oriented subreddits.

OR...maybe he asked for an invite??

OR...was an investor?

Lots of possibilities.

New info from court today (from his notebooks):
He knew about the conference back in October.
//In an entry marked Oct. 22, 2024, the writings said, "1.5 months. This investor conference is a true windfall ... and -- most importantly -- the message becomes self evident."//

CEO killing: Luigi Mangione in NY court, faces federal charges including stalking, murder

Luigi Mangione is charged in a four-count federal criminal complaint with stalking, murder through the use of a firearm and a firearms offense involving a silencer.

6abc.com

 

[Sunshynn]

The bottom right of Page 8. The wrapper thing. What is that?
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-c...one-healthcare-shooter-federal-indictment.pdf

I see what you're referencing and it almost looks like a paper UPC or something like that. But, that is totally my opinion and it could be something totally unrelated.

 

[Sundog]

Sentencing information on federal charges, as stated in today's press release by the U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of New York. Note that the use of a silencer in a crime of violence carries a MINIMUM sentence of 30 year and maximum sentence of life.

MANGIONE, 26, of Towson, Maryland, is charged with one count of using a firearm to commit murder, which carries a maximum potential sentence of death or life in prison; one count of interstate stalking resulting in death, which carries a maximum potential sentence of life in prison; one count of stalking through use of interstate facilities resulting in death, which carries a maximum potential sentence of life in prison; and one count of discharging a firearm that was equipped with a silencer in furtherance of a crime of violence, which carries a maximum potential sentence of life in prison and a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years.

Luigi Mangione Charged With The Stalking And Murder Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson And Use Of A Silencer In A Crime Of Violence

Edward Y. Kim, the Acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York; Merrick B. Garland, the Attorney General of the United States; James E. Dennehy, the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”); and Jessica S...

www.justice.gov

 

[Baba O'Riley]

New York's status as a world capital? That is mentioned in many articles but it is obviously not a fact but an opinion and as such, something subjective.

Well, I did not say it was THE world capital, I said it was A world capital, which I think is an indisputable fact by many measures. There are several cities that are also considered world capitals: London, Tokyo, Paris, Berlin, Beijing, Mexico City, Toronto (with apologies to Ottawa, the true capital of Canada), Rome immediately come to mind.

JMO.

 

[Sundog]

Acting U.S. Attorney Edward Y. Kim said: “Brian Thompson was gunned down in cold blood as he walked down a street in midtown Manhattan. Thompson was allegedly killed just because he held the position of chief executive officer of a health insurance company. As alleged, Luigi Mangione traveled to New York to stalk and shoot Thompson in broad daylight in front of a Manhattan hotel, all in a grossly misguided attempt to broadcast Mangione’s views across the country. But this wasn’t a debate, it was murder, and Mangione now faces federal charges. This Office and its law enforcement partners remain steadfast in our commitment to fight violence in whatever form it takes.”

Luigi Mangione Charged With The Stalking And Murder Of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson And Use Of A Silencer In A Crime Of Violence

Edward Y. Kim, the Acting United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York; Merrick B. Garland, the Attorney General of the United States; James E. Dennehy, the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”); and Jessica S...

www.justice.gov

 

[NuttMegg]

Why does the weapon matter at all? Terrorists use all sorts of different weapons, to include knives for instance.

The type of weapon is not an element of the charge.

It’s the motivation of the suspect that matters.

I think the jury will not buy terrorism with that kind of weapon.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Luigi Mangione caught the eye of onlookers Thursday with a makeover before his extradition hearing in Pennsylvania.

The Ivy League-educated suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson was clean-shaven with a haircut and an apparent eyebrow trim.

Luigi Mangione’s Prison Transformation Draws Stares at Court
Luigi Mangione’s Prison Transformation Draws Stares at Court

How the heck did his attorney KFA pull off a make-over in a Pennsylvania jail?
Maybe Karen does hair on the side?

Luigi Mangione’s Prison Transformation Draws Stares at Court

Luigi Mangione caught the eye of onlookers Thursday with a makeover before his extradition hearing in Pennsylvania. The Ivy League-educated suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson was clean-shaven with a haircut and an apparent eyebrow trim. Mangione, 26, looked wild-eyed...

news.yahoo.com

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

If he's a terrorist, why use a weapon that can't even shoot 2 bullets in a row.
Betcha that comes up in his defense, mark my words.

Unfortunately I have no idea, and I wouldn’t attempt to answer for this suspect or his counsel. His lawyers can do as they so choose for their client.

I will restate that IIRC early reports were that gun, a ghost gun IIRC, was chosen since it was likely to be untraceable and unregistered. With those two thoughts I hope his counsel does press those points as to the weapon their client chose.

IMO irregardless of how one feels about a chosen profession, industry, or avocation, or another’s wealth….. no one has a right to do what LM is believed to have done. He is no hero IMO. Far from it. And LM deserves no sympathy. And he has none of mine. IIRC his selfish deplorable actions have left others without a spouse and parent in this celebratory season. MOO

 

[Sundog]

As Luigi Mangione made his first New York court appearance today, his defense attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo noted a “highly unusual” situation that she said had never happened in her 30-year legal career: Until yesterday, she was prepared to represent Mangione today in state — not federal — court, CNN’s Kara Scannell reported.

Agnifilo said “she had never seen a situation play out like this,” Scannell reported from outside the courthouse after the appearance ended.

Agnifilo asked prosecutors to clarify whether there’s a joint investigation among the federal and state prosecutors or two separate investigations, because the offices located about a block apart in Lower Manhattan appear to be charging Mangione on two different legal theories, CNN’s Lauren del Valle reported.

Agnifilo also noted that one of the charges against Mangione has the possibility of the death penalty, Scannell reported, adding that the prosecutors, however, did not say whether they were going to seek that penalty.

Prosecutors also did not respond to Agnifilo’s comments “about how highly unusual this was,” Scannell said, adding that the judge agreed this point did not need discussion today.

Next steps: Mangione was charged by federal prosecutors in a criminal complaint unsealed Thursday. Prosecutors are expected to seek an indictment from a grand jury.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html