NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #10 *Arrest*

[MassGuy]

I think the jury will not buy terrorism with that kind of weapon.

He could have strangled him and it still met the definition of the charge if the motive fit the statutory definition.

You genuinely believe a jury would base any sort of decision on the fact that he used a semiautomatic handgun?

You think a terrorist attack can’t involve a gun?

 

[Jw192]

NY made it's laws and restricted themselves with Murder 1, so in this case Murder 2 plus the weapons charges I would agree with. Terrorism charges and federal charges going towards the death penalty for a crime that happened in a none DP state though? Nah, I'm sorry but to me personally they don't sit well and leave a dirty smell in the air.

As someone who has always respected the law and justice, this one has rattled me and made me rethink my previous stances to a degree.

Ultimately in this case I hope no plea agreements are taken and Agnifilo works her magic to tear down the overcharging, leaving only the rightful charges of NY standard Murder 2 and the ones relating to the weapon and he serves his sentence which is rightful justice, the same that's given to all other premeditated murders in NY.

This is my own opinion that I'm entitled to and now firmly stick to, sorry.

 

[legalese]

As Luigi Mangione made his first New York court appearance today, his defense attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo noted a “highly unusual” situation that she said had never happened in her 30-year legal career: Until yesterday, she was prepared to represent Mangione today in state — not federal — court, CNN’s Kara Scannell reported.

Agnifilo said “she had never seen a situation play out like this,” Scannell reported from outside the courthouse after the appearance ended.

Agnifilo asked prosecutors to clarify whether there’s a joint investigation among the federal and state prosecutors or two separate investigations, because the offices located about a block apart in Lower Manhattan appear to be charging Mangione on two different legal theories, CNN’s Lauren del Valle reported.

Agnifilo also noted that one of the charges against Mangione has the possibility of the death penalty, Scannell reported, adding that the prosecutors, however, did not say whether they were going to seek that penalty.

Prosecutors also did not respond to Agnifilo’s comments “about how highly unusual this was,” Scannell said, adding that the judge agreed this point did not need discussion today.

Next steps: Mangione was charged by federal prosecutors in a criminal complaint unsealed Thursday. Prosecutors are expected to seek an indictment from a grand jury.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/the-latest-on-the-unitedhealthcare-ceo-killing-suspect-12-19-24/index.html

Parallel state and federal prosecutions in a case like this are very unusual, she’s right.

I don’t think general deterrence is a sufficient justification for the charges being piled on LM. IMO, the NYPD response to this crime and the severity of the NY state charges do a more than sufficient job of deterring similar criminal conduct.

The state charges are extremely serious and could very well result in LM spending the rest of his life in prison. Justice for BT’s family can be accomplished through these charges. The feds jumping in now charging LM for the same criminal act is overkill IMO.

 

[fred&edna]

So LM selected the health care industry because it "checked all the boxes." It could have been another industry and another CEO. No wonder there are terrorism charges (at state level).

ebm

ITA.

I am curious about his "grievance box" list. I wonder if he's enlightened his high-priced attorney??

jmo

 

[Columbo Was The Best]

How the heck did his attorney KFA pull off a make-over in a Pennsylvania jail?
Maybe Karen does hair on the side?

Luigi Mangione’s Prison Transformation Draws Stares at Court

Luigi Mangione caught the eye of onlookers Thursday with a makeover before his extradition hearing in Pennsylvania. The Ivy League-educated suspect in the murder of UnitedHealthCare CEO Brian Thompson was clean-shaven with a haircut and an apparent eyebrow trim. Mangione, 26, looked wild-eyed...

news.yahoo.com

But even the face is different! gone the wrinkles from the forehead and the cheeks look tighter, the kind of look one gets after a long facial. Very strange this sudden make-over. Jmoo.

 

[arielilane]

@BrianEntin


One of Luigi Mangione's federal charges, murder by firearm, could bring the possibility of the death penalty if he is convicted. Federal prosecutors have not said whether they will pursue death.


1:43 PM · Dec 19, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1869815781967704335

 

[Sundog]

Parallel state and federal prosecutions in a case like this are very unusual, she’s right.

I don’t think general deterrence is a sufficient justification for the charges being piled on LM. IMO, the NYPD response to this crime and the severity of the NY state charges do a more than sufficient job of deterring similar criminal conduct.

The state charges are extremely serious and could very well result in LM spending the rest of his life in prison. Justice for BT’s family can be accomplished through these charges. The feds jumping in now charging LM for the same criminal act is overkill IMO.

If the feds have jurisdiction regarding the federal crimes that LM has committed, then IMO they should bring these charges against him. They can always drop the charges at some point if the NY state case proceeds in a way that ensures that justice is served. Otherwise, IMO, they should proceed with the federal charges against LM.

 

[MassGuy]

Parallel state and federal prosecutions in a case like this are very unusual, she’s right.

I don’t think general deterrence is a sufficient justification for the charges being piled on LM. IMO, the NYPD response to this crime and the severity of the NY state charges do a more than sufficient job of deterring similar criminal conduct.

The state charges are extremely serious and could very well result in LM spending the rest of his life in prison. Justice for BT’s family can be accomplished through these charges. The feds jumping in now charging LM for the same criminal act is overkill IMO.

We see this all the time in unlawful police shootings though. The state gets their shot, then the Feds get theirs.

This has even happened in murder cases, where killers are found not guilty in state court, only to be found guilty in Federal court.

Is it the simultaneous part that bothers you?

 

[Sundog]

But even the face is different! gone the wrinkles from the forehead and the cheeks look tighter, the kind of look one gets after a long facial. Very strange this sudden make-over. Jmoo.

We saw this in the Bryan Kohberger case as well, defense attorneys in high profile cases like this will make arrangements to ensure that the defendant appears in the best light possible when they will be in the public eye. Not strange at all. Also defense making sure he had normal attire when he appeared in federal court today, same as Kohberger wearing a suit during court appearances rather than the usual orange prison attire.

Defense public relations 101, very common.

 

[MassGuy]

If the feds have jurisdiction regarding the federal crimes that LM has committed, then IMO they should bring these charges against him. They can always drop the charges at some point if the NY state case proceeds in a way that ensures that justice is served. Otherwise, IMO, they should proceed with the federal charges against LM.

I’d prefer the Feds take the ball here. Their case is easier because they don’t have to prove the motive (terrorism angle).

It’s pointless to get 25-life or something in state court (assuming the jury doesn’t go for first degree), only to turn around and try him federally.

A federal conviction would almost certainly mean life in prison. Do that and make the state charges moot.

 

[Jw192]

But even the face is different! gone the wrinkles from the forehead and the cheeks look tighter, the kind of look one gets after a long facial. Very strange this sudden make-over. Jmoo.

I think it's just the picture quality and the results of no McDonald's for a while tbh ha

One thing's for sure, there's been no shortage of pictures of LM from both LE and the media, never seen anything like it tbh.
Someone mentioned in a comment previously that he's "reaching Manson status" in terms of his "groupies" and that made me think some, it's kinda true, the whole groupie thing though the difference here is Manson's supporters were hippies and loners, outcasts... LM's "supporters" are teachers, postmen, bus drivers, shop workers, unemployed, law enforcement, doctors, nurses, surgeons, stay at home parents, forensic psychs on websleuths, young, old, left, right... they're old Bob down the road who worked his fingers to the bone all his life only to watch his wife of 50 years die because her insurance was denied... They're your neighbours, family and your friends and whilst I bet that they don't condone the act of murder at its core, in a way they understand it and they support the concept that something has to give. That's the difference here, and that's where we're at in this circus that's to come.

 

[Izzylizzy]

But even the face is different! gone the wrinkles from the forehead and the cheeks look tighter, the kind of look one gets after a long facial. Very strange this sudden make-over. Jmoo.

Did we just see the insanity plea with a crazed looking defendant put on the back burner so a pretty-boy killer can garner sympathy, fans and cha-ching?
Also if he was on any prescribed meds when he was arrested he could have gotten them while incarcerated in Pa.
Like for anxiety?

 

[Sundog]

I’d prefer the Feds take the ball here. Their case is easier because they don’t have to prove the motive (terrorism angle).

It’s pointless to get 25-life or something in state court (assuming the jury doesn’t go for first degree), only to turn around and try him federally.

A federal conviction would almost certainly mean life in prison. Do that and make state charges moot.

Agree, that may be the strategy they are taking since LM appeared in federal court today and not in NY court as even LM's attorney thought was going to happen. Also, the federal charges include a minimum of 30 years in prison for using a silencer (maximum is life in prison), so even if the feds decide not to go with the death penalty, he would face 30 years to life in prison on use of gun silencer charge, and face life in prison on use of gun to commit murder charge.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Baba O'Riley]

But even the face is different! gone the wrinkles from the forehead and the cheeks look tighter, the kind of look one gets after a long facial. Very strange this sudden make-over. Jmoo.

Maybe now that he's not on the run, he is getting enough sleep, even on those flimsy mattresses, and eating regular meals, such as prison food is. And maybe being on the run was more psychologically stressful than actual captivity. He does look a little better.

I said it in an earlier thread but I'll say it again. There are several striking parallels between LM and the protagonist-murderer in Doestoevsky's "Crime and Punishment", written in Russia in 1866. It's mind boggling. I wonder if he read the book?

 

[CrimeDawg123]

i wonder if the defense might argue LM is not getting a fair trial when the prosecution takes the “setting an example” thing too far, and it could end in a mistrial? pure speculation at this point of course

Yeah I worry about prosecution overreach in this case.

 

[legalese]

We see this all the time in unlawful police shootings though. The state gets their shot, then the Feds get theirs.

This has even happened in murder cases, where killers are found not guilty in state court, only to be found guilty in Federal court.

Is it the simultaneous part that bothers you?

Your examples are of unsuccessful state cases that were then prosecuted federally. Here, the feds should have let the state case proceed. If NY failed, then sure, the feds can have their shot. It is unusual for a defendant to be indicted by the state and extradited on those charges, then immediately appear in federal court on brand new charges. It’s like NY and the feds did not coordinate here.

 

[MassGuy]

I think it's just the picture quality and the results of no McDonald's for a while tbh ha

One thing's for sure, there's been no shortage of pictures of LM from both LE and the media, never seen anything like it tbh.
Someone mentioned in a comment previously that he's "reaching Manson status" in terms of his "groupies" and that made me think some, it's kinda true, the whole groupie thing though the difference here is Manson's supporters were hippies and liners, outcasts... LM's "supporters" are teachers, postmen, bus drivers, shop workers, unemployed, law enforcement, doctors, nurses, surgeons, stay at home parents, forensic psychs on websleuths, young, old, left, right... they're old Bob down the road who worked his fingers to the bone all his life only to watch his wife of 50 years die because her insurance was denied... They're your neighbours, family and your friends and whilst I bet that they don't condone the act of murder at its core, in a way they understand it and they support the concept that something has to give. That's the difference here, and that's where we're at in this circus that's to come.

Imagine holding the cold-blooded killer of a father of two in any sort of esteem.

By the standard employed by his delusional supporters, anyone and everyone in a position of power and influence is fair game.

Where does it end?

I hope those teachers aren’t teaching my kids. I hope any friends who support murder stay the hell away from me. I hope that surgeon who literally has the power or life and death in their hands, isn’t making the same type of call when they operate.

That’s as vile as it is terrifying.

You hate a policy? You hate an organization? You hate a system? You change it.

What you don’t do is support vigilante justice from a killer who seems to have plotted attacks against various other types of institutions, before settling on one that “checked all the boxes.”

 

[arielilane]

"Procrastinated"

So, it doesn't seem like Mangione had a specific gripe just with the insurance industry, but corporate greed, in general ... and, targeting an insurance exec best served his purposes, symbolically.

Luigi Mangione's Alleged Diary Entries Show Months of Murder Planning

Luigi Mangione planned the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson months in advance ... and, he'd clearly been thinking about it longer -- so say federal prosecutors.

www.tmz.com

12.19.2024

 

[fred&edna]

Soo, do we think the fed charges/penalties will very strongly encourage his attorney to do some plea dealing... rather than spending time and money on a mental illness defense?

jmo

 

[Marantz4250b]

But doesn’t that highlight exactly how inconsistent the system is? If someone were targeted in a similarly calculated way but wasn’t high profile, it’s hard to imagine this level of urgency or such severe charges.

The justice system is clearly sending a message, I agree. But the message is about protecting power structures, not protecting people. The copycat fear makes sense. But why does it take a case involving a CEO/millionaire to get this level of attention when so many other victims of gun violence don’t get justice? MOO

I disagree. Yes, it's sending a message (that's what it's there for) but it's sending the message that it's protecting the structures of society at large, rather than specific power structures.

We simply cannot have individuals taking it upon themselves to murder people in the street as a way of influencing public policy or the law. That is terrorism - plain and simple.

It simply isn't true to say that the justice system is charging this guy differently because of who his alleged victim was. A couple of racists murdering foreign people at random is not terrorism. If they are doing it in an attempt to change policy or the law on foreigners then, yes, that's terrorism.

If this murder was carried out by someone else who did it for the exact same reasons as LM allegedly did (to change policy on healthcare to a more socialised one) but he had a hammer and sickle flag on his rucksack, used a poison dart or a Stetchkin (Google it) and was seen raising his fist and shouting "power to the people" in the manner of Woolfie Smith (Google that as well - showing my age here), I'd wager that no one would be griping at terrorism charges and I think we all know that.

It's not about his choice of victim, it's about the reasons he chose him.