NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[Warwick7]

Just catching up on the tv news coverage of this today, and a couple of things really piss me off.

First, there was no reason to do this insane perp walk with all those heavily armed cops. He could have been transported quietly and secretly, without a single camera capturing him. It plays up the underdog/martyr image he has cultivated with a significant minority of the public. I mean, just look at this fricken picture.
View attachment 552937

Secondly, and related to this, there was absolutely no reason for Mayor Adams to be present. He shouldn't be saying a word, as it is not in the interest of justice for him to be discussing this case. He's turning this into some political sideshow, with himself at the center of it. It makes the case political, and hurts the terrorism argument as a result.

I wish there was some way to just try this Federally, and have New York step aside.

I said exactly the same thing!!!!!!!!

 

[Warwick7]

I'm 100% in agreement with both things. Appalling.

Edited to add. Eric Adams must not have very good legal counsel, else they'd be advising him to stay the erf out of the spotlight considering this recent news:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/19/ingrid-lewis-martin-indicted-new-york-eric-adams-aide-00195366

That is exactly what I said the other day!
And it really bothers me that by watching this others will copycat.
:0(

 

[10ofRods]

How can they be so clueless. That photo will immediately be used for screensavers & backgrounds all over social media and secondly with just a few touchups it could be turned into a religious persecution icon, with the cops as roman soldiers, etc. I'm not going to waste time looking, i'll bet it's already doctored up for t shirts on the internet, his persecution.

Yep - t-shirts and bookbags and water bottles.

In some sense, given America's style of pop culture, this is a big initial splash, but over time, it will become less interesting through all the repeated exposure.

I think it's going to be a long road to the eventual trial. I'm betting he will not plead out regardless of how many death penalty threats the feds hold over his head. He's going to be in jail or prison for a very long time.

The only thing I can think of that would persuade him to plead out would be that he starts to prefer prison to jail (and maybe even a federal prison - which would be interesting for his attorneys to try and orchestrate for him). I believe that's what happened with Joe DeAngelo (plus Joe had kids and a wife who were in a state of shock and he wanted to spare them).

To many younger people, I'm sure he does seem like a martyr.

IMO

 

[legalese]

Yep - t-shirts and bookbags and water bottles.

In some sense, given America's style of pop culture, this is a big initial splash, but over time, it will become less interesting through all the repeated exposure.

I think it's going to be a long road to the eventual trial. I'm betting he will not plead out regardless of how many death penalty threats the feds hold over his head. He's going to be in jail or prison for a very long time.

The only thing I can think of that would persuade him to plead out would be that he starts to prefer prison to jail (and maybe even a federal prison - which would be interesting for his attorneys to try and orchestrate for him). I believe that's what happened with Joe DeAngelo (plus Joe had kids and a wife who were in a state of shock and he wanted to spare them).

To many younger people, I'm sure he does seem like a martyr.

IMO

I’d be surprised if he didn’t plead out. At least to second degree murder. Even if he has some sort of insanity defense (unlikely), his chance of winning at trial appears to be extremely low.

 

[stanerd]

Yep - t-shirts and bookbags and water bottles.

In some sense, given America's style of pop culture, this is a big initial splash, but over time, it will become less interesting through all the repeated exposure.

I think it's going to be a long road to the eventual trial. I'm betting he will not plead out regardless of how many death penalty threats the feds hold over his head. He's going to be in jail or prison for a very long time.

The only thing I can think of that would persuade him to plead out would be that he starts to prefer prison to jail (and maybe even a federal prison - which would be interesting for his attorneys to try and orchestrate for him). I believe that's what happened with Joe DeAngelo

From what I've read, doing time in federal prison is mostly boring but generally safer than state prisons, although there have been stabbings at MDC Brooklyn (where LM is currently) and Derek Chauvin was stabbed in federal prison.

Just another armchair expert guessing here for a possible plea deal - maybe life in prison for the federal charges (take death penalty off the table). For state charges, maybe murder 2 with possibility of parole after 25 years, although I'm not sure how it works for sentencing if someone is charged both at the state and federal level.

 

[BrianJohnson]

I’d be surprised if he didn’t plead out. At least to second degree murder. Even if he has some sort of insanity defense (unlikely), his chance of winning at trial appears to be extremely low.

No chance of that IMHO, he will want his day in court, he will make the trial about putting the healthcare industry/corporate America on trial. Especially if the trial is televised like OJ/Jacko were he will love the attention of making grandiose statements infront of the cameras. He will take it all the way and take the gamble that a juror will be symathetic

 

[CrimeDawg123]

As we all know, no cameras are permitted in federal courtrooms and mugshots are not released of inmates. LE is aware of LM's "fan club." Was all the protection surrounding LM in order to keep his fan club from attempting to free him?

In addition, perhaps this will be the last time we see LM for the time being ... thank goodness! He’ll have plenty of time to work on being best buddies w/SC.

I agree w/posters who stated that LM’s family advised to stay away for now until trial, and most likely family funding his defense.

All speculation and an opinion

If their goal was to make him look cool, they succeeded. What buffoonery.

 

[BrianJohnson]

From what I've read, doing time in federal prison is mostly boring but generally safer than state prisons, although there have been stabbings at MDC Brooklyn (where LM is currently) and Derek Chauvin was stabbed in federal prison.

Just another armchair expert guessing here for a possible plea deal - maybe life in prison for the federal charges (take death penalty off the table). For state charges, maybe murder 2 with possibility of parole after 25 years, although I'm not sure how it works for sentencing if someone is charged both at the state and federal level.

tbh I would rather have the death penalty than life in jail without parole, he is 26 good chance he lives another 60 years

 

[legalese]

No chance of that IMHO, he will want his day in court, he will make the trial about putting the healthcare industry/corporate America on trial. Especially if the trial is televised like OJ/Jacko were he will love the attention of making grandiose statements infront of the cameras. He will take it all the way and take the gamble that a juror will be symathetic

The rules of evidence will very much squash the defense’s ability to put the healthcare industry on trial. It just won’t happen. New York trials aren’t televised, anyway.

 

[MassGuy]

I’d be surprised if he didn’t plead out. At least to second degree murder. Even if he has some sort of insanity defense (unlikely), his chance of winning at trial appears to be extremely low.

His lawyer has already said that her strategy would be mitigation (when she was a CNN analyst).

She talked about some sort of mental health defense, but a plea would obviously serve the same purpose.

He won’t win one. He certainly won’t win two.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't think we know for sure. I think it's gotta be his family though.

Unless he really has $6M in an account somewhere (still from his family, of course, but if true should buy him a pretty good defense).

I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this.

No chance they could free him/try to, those police guys were armed with machine guns and would not have hesitated to use them

Oh yes, they would have. They would have hesitated.

This was an exceptionally crowded place. The risk of killing one of their own with those weapons, if they had to use them, would have been high and the results likely catastrophic in terms of how those weapons pierce through humans.

They would have had to be ordered to use them OR have had extensive civilian crowd experience. There weren't that many with "machine guns" either.

It would be an incredible debacle and the goal would have been for people with hand weapons to neutralize/take down any oncoming criminal opposition - not the guys with machine guns. That is mostly for show - just like many other elements of this event.

IMO. I can't even imagine the potential for harm to other LE and civilians if anyone used one of those weapons in a crowded public place. Well, I can (because of events like the Las Vegas massacre), but yeah, that's why there were only a couple of those guys. They were probably authorized to aim upward at snipers on top of things, if need be.

 

[BrianJohnson]

The rules of evidence will very much squash the defense’s ability to put the healthcare industry on trial. It just won’t happen. New York trials aren’t televised, anyway.

I have never been to a court so my only experience of judiciary was the OJ trial, if LM starts speaking out against the healthcare system while answering questions would the judge have the ability to shut him up on the spot and stop him?

 

[legalese]

His lawyer has already said that her strategy would be mitigation (when she was a CNN analyst).

She talked about some sort of mental health defense, but a plea would obviously serve the same purpose.

He won’t win one. He certainly won’t win two.

That makes sense. Mitigation is really her only option considering the mounds of evidence we’ve seen. The risk of acquittal or jury nullification is grossly overstated, imo.

As a defense attorney, a good portion of my job is doing damage control for clients, which often involves negotiating as fair of a plea deal as possible. I imagine that’s what will happen here (though it may take quite some time), unless LM or the prosecution are unwilling to cut a deal.

 

[MassGuy]

Some interesting tidbits here:
<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

What’s at play in both the federal and state cases against Mangione, according to Shapiro, is that it’s likely prosecutors don’t want to try the case because it gives Mangione “a soap box to air his views.”

“I think they want Mangione to plead out, which is why they’re holding the death penalty against him,” he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/20/us/luigi-mangione-notebook-trial-whats-next/index.html

 

[NuttMegg]

Yep - t-shirts and bookbags and water bottles.

In some sense, given America's style of pop culture, this is a big initial splash, but over time, it will become less interesting through all the repeated exposure.

I think it's going to be a long road to the eventual trial. I'm betting he will not plead out regardless of how many death penalty threats the feds hold over his head. He's going to be in jail or prison for a very long time.

The only thing I can think of that would persuade him to plead out would be that he starts to prefer prison to jail (and maybe even a federal prison - which would be interesting for his attorneys to try and orchestrate for him). I believe that's what happened with Joe DeAngelo (plus Joe had kids and a wife who were in a state of shock and he wanted to spare them).

To many younger people, I'm sure he does seem like a martyr.

IMO

I'm curious about the possible influence of the cousin politician. Influencing, possibly the non-appearance of family. It must be super awkward to navigate that office about now.

 

[legalese]

I have never been to a court so my only experience of judiciary was the OJ trial, if LM starts speaking out against the healthcare system while answering questions would the judge have the ability to shut him up on the spot and stop him?

The OJ trial was a production! I’m happy to share my far more mundane court experiences.

If LM were to testify, he could not use the time to ramble on about the healthcare industry as he pleases, no. There can be objections based on relevance, and if LM is talking about of then, the judge can hold him in contempt.

That being said, I cannot imagine a universe in which LM’s attorney lets him take the stand. No way.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Some interesting tidbits here:

<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

What’s at play in both the federal and state cases against Mangione, according to Shapiro, is that it’s likely prosecutors don’t want to try the case because it gives Mangione “a soap box to air his views.”

“I think they want Mangione to plead out, which is why they’re holding the death penalty against him,” he said.<modsnip - posting more than 10% is a copyright violation - see link>

https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/20/us/luigi-mangione-notebook-trial-whats-next/index.html

So they knew he set it up such that the Feds would take him. I wondered from the time we heard about his “Letter to the Feds”.

“It’s all there and part of a months-long plan to cross state lines.”

 

[Eaglette]

Was on tonight's 6pm news in Australia:

What a Performance !!

It could have been done in the dead of night - cheapest transport (bus/van) with just 2 armed men (custodial/police) etc.
No fuss. No cameras. No circus.

 

[MassGuy]

That makes sense. Mitigation is really her only option considering the mounds of evidence we’ve seen. The risk of acquittal or jury nullification is grossly overstated, imo.

As a defense attorney, a good portion of my job is doing damage control for clients, which often involves negotiating as fair of a plea deal as possible. I imagine that’s what will happen here (though it may take quite some time), unless LM or the prosecution are unwilling to cut a deal.

I agree that the nullification thing is really not a legitimate concern here.

Let’s say the polling is correct, and about 20% of the public supports what this guy did.

You have voir dire to filter them out.

But then you also have what happens when you serve on a jury; you’re hit by the solemn sense of responsibility that comes with the gravity of what you’re doing.

When we do see something that might be jury nullification, there’s always some ambiguity with the crime (self defense, husband was an abusive jerk, etc).

This has absolutely none of those elements. It’s overwhelming, and his guilt is not in doubt. Hell, there’s enough evidence to convict 10 people.

 

[NuttMegg]

Was on tonight's 6pm news in Australia:

What a Performance !!

It could have been done in the dead of night - cheapest transport (bus/van) with just 2 armed men (custodial/police) etc.
No fuss. No cameras. No circus.

Can you give us a feel for what Australians think of the case? Yes I know it's a huge country, and I think you have public health care? Just in general, not pressing for your opinion.