NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[Friday Fan]

MOO: LM won't plea
LM won't testify

 

[Sundog]

When is the next court date please?

MSM is reporting that the next federal court date is January 18, 2025. But that's a Saturday, so not sure if it is correct.

The next court date is January 18, 2025 unless an indictment is secured beforehand.

CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione held in same jail as Diddy following 1st court appearance

Mangione was hit with four federal charges Thursday, including stalking, a firearms offense involving a silencer and murder through use of a firearm, a charge that makes him eligible for the death penalty.

abc7ny.com

 

[browneyes]

IMO, this murderer has had so much publicity because he committed his murder in daylight and it was caught on camera. It’s a rare situation, but he’s a run of the mill killer. There was a reason he did it knowing it would be caught on camera. He wanted attention….he doesn’t give a flying fig about anyone but himself. Look what he’s putting his family through.

 

[Charlot123]

This guy is not a common criminal, as what happened here opens the door to something far larger and much more terrifying.

This is different than every other murder case I’ve ever followed; there’s no comparison other than this guy killed someone.

The broader concern, which I believe to be very real, is that this is going to become the new way of settling scores.

Copycats targeting politicians, business leaders, anyone that people disagree with. Your difference of opinion is a justification for murder.

Your common murder does not have these implications. So you respond by throwing the book at him.

What you do not do, is create a spectacle that undermines what you are trying to achieve. What they are doing is the opposite of what their goal is.

They are turning a cold blooded killer into a martyr with these optics.

My broadest concern is that changes that need to be implicated to prevent serious events will be overdue. It may turn into chaos, or it may end up there. Not by force, but by making certain changes.

I don't understand it - it only brings more sensationalism to the case. I'd think they'd want to deescalate that. Why not just press murder charges and get it done.

Simply, by definition, there are "domestic" murders, and DV. Everything in excess of it, "political", is in the "terrorist" group because there is nothing in between, and any society is label-prone.

So we ended up here. The caveat is that the regular appeal, "you can not kill a person in broad daylight", doesn't work in political cases. Hence, all appeals "but you can't just kill a human," fall on deaf ears. It can't even generate a debate, by default.

 

[Sundog]

Wondering if there could be any impact on the direction of LM's case in federal court with a new DOJ administration beginning on January 20, 2025.
I doubt it, but just wondering if it could have any impact on the prosecution of this case.

 

[sunspun]

I'm curious about the possible influence of the cousin politician. Influencing, possibly the non-appearance of family. It must be super awkward to navigate that office about now.

What office does this cousin hold?

 

[stanerd]

Potential scenario if LM decides he doesn't care about what happens to him but just wants as much attention as he can get before being sent away for the rest of his life:

Not only does LM take the stand, but he decides to represent himself like Ted Bundy did during his trial.

 

[NuttMegg]

What office does this cousin hold?

House of Delegates. Baltimore county

 

[BrianJohnson]

Wondering if there could be any impact on the direction of LM's case in federal court with a new DOJ administration beginning on January 20, 2025.
I doubt it, but just wondering if it could have any impact on the prosecution of this case.

If anything they would double down on making sure he is behind bars for the rest of his life or frying in an electric chair, this was an attack on corporate America, Trump being very much a member of corporate America would likely fill positions with people that would like to see someone like LM locked up

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I don't think we know for sure. I think it's gotta be his family though.

IMO - getting confused by LM symbolic actions (anti-capitalist with stash of Monopoly* money and executing a CEO) and his actual status as rich-boy with potential trust fund mounting a big private legal defense.

*the ultimate capitalist game, tho there are claims it was meant to show capitalism is bad …

 

[Sundog]

Not only does LM take the stand, but he decides to represent himself like Ted Bundy did during his trial.

<snipped for focus>

I had the same thought, that LM might choose to represent himself and then it would be quite a circus. So far he seems to be working well with his attorney, he appears quite relaxed (as if on medications, IMO), but you never know if they will have a falling out at some point. Or if he goes off his meds (JMO), or if his fan base wanes significantly along the way. Or something could happen in jail or in the courtroom that sets him off. He's not a stable person, so I think anything is possible.

 

[DancingMuse]

IMO, this murderer has had so much publicity because he committed his murder in daylight and it was caught on camera. It’s a rare situation, but he’s a run of the mill killer. There was a reason he did it knowing it would be caught on camera. He wanted attention….he doesn’t give a flying fig about anyone but himself. Look what he’s putting his family through.

Yes, Browneyes, Agreeing with You.

"look what he is putting his family through". So, it makes me wonder, is his family paying for his lawyer?
maybe not.

We don't have ANY clarification on who is paying for the high-priced wife & husband team (attorney(s)) yet.

So, who is paying? 2 possibilities.....
a) LM is using his own funds: the 6 million out of his account he spoke about? (or)
b) Parents/Family members (from Baltimore) are footing the hefty bill?

If LM is hiring her himself, she could run through that 6 million pretty fast. She is VERY EXPENSIVE.

What happens when LM runs out of money?

(MOO & Speculation. e.t.a. verbs)

 

[Sunshynn]

IMO - getting confused by LM symbolic actions (anti-capitalist with stash of Monopoly* money and executing a CEO) and his actual status as rich-boy with potential trust fund mounting a big private legal defense.

Could that be why he's protesting the discovery of the $8000 (I think) he had on him when he was arrested at McDonald's?
Him having access to and, even worse, having that kind of money on him would go a long way to bust up the perception of him being a modern day Robin Hood - imo - put him more in the same circle as the very people he was against.
MOO.

 

[sunspun]

Yes, Browneyes, Agreeing with You.

"look what he is putting his family through". So, it makes me wonder, is his family paying for his lawyer?
maybe not.

We don't have ANY clarification on who is paying for the high-priced wife & husband team (attorney(s)) yet.

So, who is paying? 2 possibilities.....
a) LM is using his own funds: the 6 million out of his account he spoke about? (or)
b) Parents/Family members (from Baltimore) are footing the hefty bill?

If LM hiring her himself, she could run through that 6 million pretty fast. She is VERY EXPENSIVE.

What happens when LM runs out of money?

Would an attorney like her ever donate her services for publicity's sake? Not that she needs it, I know...

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Would an attorney like her ever donate her services for publicity's sake? Not that she needs it, I know...

Given that both she and her husband have taken such high-profile cases, yeah, I think it's possible.

 

[10ofRods]

Being from the UK I admit to having very limited knowledge of American legal matters but here in the UK we have a person called Director of Public Prosecutions who when the police send cases his way he decides whether the evidence threshold matches the definition of the law, is there a similar type of person in the USA who would have examined all the evidence and determined it fits the threshold?

In theory, yes - a NYC Prosecutor (probably the entire upper brass of that organization) and the Federal Prosecutor.

However, in this case, we also have MSM reports that LM's defense attorney may have tried to negotiate a bit already. I personally think the Federal charges were very hastily filed, given past examples, but it's not unheard of. They want negotiating power over him.

There's not a heckuva lot of evidence of "terrorism." Yet. Usually, that means a group of like-minded politically motivated persons who commit crimes in order to aid in negotiations over political matters or to scare the public or the politicians into action. I do see how the Feds think that LM's actions may fit that, but I think that many American jurors would expect to see evidence of a criminal conspiracy to affect US policy via murder.

IOW, it's less than cut and dried. BTW, on my last trip to London, I did get to visit the Old Bailey and Lincoln's Inn/Royal Courts of Justice. Unfortunately they were on holiday break, so little activity - but boy, how imposing and solemn the space is. What history. I did get to eavesdrop on lawyer talk and later we went to a luncheon that was law students and law professors (and really good food - I think it was the old Guildhall). Amazing places. I think it makes a difference to those who walk into these places, to feel the history. We're going back when courts are open! I can't help wanting to see justice in action any place where I can understand what's going on.

This case feels unprecedented to me. As in, have never seen anything like it - the perp walk was novel. The rapid accumulation of charges was different. And the crime itself has so many unusual parts to it (as MassGuy keeps saying). I agree, as a veteran crime watcher, this one kind of takes the cake.

IMO

 

[10ofRods]

What does your response have to do with my post that you linked?

I was responding to Brian - your name was in the post due to my forgetting to delete my former draft of a different post.

I don't know where you stand on the definition of terrorism - but that's what I was trying to discuss.
So, I was replying to Brian in that post - not to you, although the discussion is rolling around many of these points.

I'll see if it's too late to edit.

ETA: Yep, too late. My apologies. At any rate, I was responding to Brian.

 

[BrianJohnson]

In theory, yes - a NYC Prosecutor (probably the entire upper brass of that organization) and the Federal Prosecutor.

However, in this case, we also have MSM reports that LM's defense attorney may have tried to negotiate a bit already. I personally think the Federal charges were very hastily filed, given past examples, but it's not unheard of. They want negotiating power over him.

There's not a heckuva lot of evidence of "terrorism." Yet. Usually, that means a group of like-minded politically motivated persons who commit crimes in order to aid in negotiations over political matters or to scare the public or the politicians into action. I do see how the Feds think that LM's actions may fit that, but I think that many American jurors would expect to see evidence of a criminal conspiracy to affect US policy via murder.

IOW, it's less than cut and dried. BTW, on my last trip to London, I did get to visit the Old Bailey and Lincoln's Inn/Royal Courts of Justice. Unfortunately they were on holiday break, so little activity - but boy, how imposing and solemn the space is. What history. I did get to eavesdrop on lawyer talk and later we went to a luncheon that was law students and law professors (and really good food - I think it was the old Guildhall). Amazing places. I think it makes a difference to those who walk into these places, to feel the history. We're going back when courts are open! I can't help wanting to see justice in action any place where I can understand what's going on.

This case feels unprecedented to me. As in, have never seen anything like it - the perp walk was novel. The rapid accumulation of charges was different. And the crime itself has so many unusual parts to it (as MassGuy keeps saying). I agree, as a veteran crime watcher, this one kind of takes the cake.

IMO

I think the federal charges were probably filed in order to put pressure on him/his legal team to make a deal. It sounds entirely possible he will end up pleading guilty to 2nd degree murder and cutting a deal to serve about 40 years in jail, the 1st degree charges and federal charges sounds like a way of putting pressure on him to plea bargain

 

[al66pine]

Grateful for the Support Remark?

I thought it was interesting that at the press conference yesterday by LM's attorney (following LM's appearance in federal court), she ended her statement with "Mr. Mangione is grateful for the support" (not sure if this was the exact wording, but something very similar, IIRC).

I'm guessing that LM likely asked her to say that, or at least get some message out to his supporters and she obliged. After all, it would fit her strategy as well, to continue to reinforce that there is support out there for her client.

@Sundog. Yes, atty's remark suggested that LM has support, altho w'out specifying who. Plausible interp.

Is it possible his atty said that to acknowledge LM's (or her own) gratitude for his FAMILY providing $$$ for his defense (assuming they have, which afaik has not been verified)?

Or to some ONLINE fundraisers established for LM's defense?
Again, assuming one or more has already provided $ to the firm?

Personally skeptical about efforts like these (eta: ppl w no known affiliation to LM collecting $), as I'm thinking some individuals will transfer no or little proceeds to the intended destination. That happens from time to time even w platforms that do nothing but fundraise (like g--f---m-).

 

[Jade]

It’s that Mayor that puts this over the top, imo.

LE has a job to do there so even if it is a bit much they are taking it seriously got plenty on hand just in case.

[...]

In a rare move, New York City Mayor Eric Adams joined officials in escorting Mangione, walking a few paces behind the suspect.
>>>
Adams told reporters after the escort, with NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch beside him. “We wanted to personally be here to show the symbolism of leading from the front.”

[...]

Weisberg said, adding that it could backfire by highlighting his image in the public sphere even further.

Paparazzi and protesters: CEO shooting suspect's unusual journey to New York City

Experts say Luigi Mangione's highly publicized arrival in New York City was an attempt by authorities to make a statement.

www.usatoday.com

Isn’t that, with the Mayor partaking, a deliberate pretrial extrajudicial statement from the government going to circumstances occurring outside of the courtroom that taint the proceedings depriving the suspect of his constitutional rights of a fair trial?

Although there may be some seeing a guilty handcuffed man delivered to the jaws of justice, as I guess LE had hoped, now there’s plenty that will see a confused young man looking like a fish out of water ganged up on by everyone from the Mayor on down.


all imo