NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[fred&edna]

MOO: The feds won't pursue the death penalty.

In the federal system all first degree murder cases are death penalty eligible. But it is rarely pursued.

MOO: I would think they would use metrics. Is this person at risk to escape? Does this person have a significant criminal history? Were weapons of mass destruction used, such as a bomb? Was the crime extremely heinous? I'm just taking pot shots here. The murder of BT doesn't seem to up the ante to me.

Here is the list of federal death row inmates.

List of Federal Death Row Prisoners | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

You could be correct. I don't think DP is likely BUT... would he, his family, or his attorney want to take the chance? Hmmm ... nevermind... exclude his family and attorney, I guess the gamble is really only his.

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

I think the federal charges were probably filed in order to put pressure on him/his legal team to make a deal. It sounds entirely possible he will end up pleading guilty to 2nd degree murder and cutting a deal to serve about 40 years in jail, the 1st degree charges and federal charges sounds like a way of putting pressure on him to plea bargain

I think so too. What's most interesting to me is that typically this would be a state level crime - but because New York's voters and legislators have banned the death penalty altogether as I understand it, I want to know if NY Prosecutors reached out to the Feds to help put a pinch move on LM. Something about that doesn't sit right with me. If it's an entirely independent process, that's one thing. IOW, if this is typical of what the Feds charge as terrorism, I think it's somewhat precedent setting.

Serial killers are terrorists, then. I've never felt comfortable voicing that, but this case brings the issue to the fore.

Another example would be a much more publicized crime - the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by Hinckley. It was clearly politically motivated - but as a lone shooter and due to the evolution of the definition of "terrorism," that's not how it was charged.

Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity. He had been writing threatening-type notes/letters and even stalking a previous president (Carter). He was not all there, to be sure. I am not sure LM is all there, either. Hinckley distributed some of his political views at Yale and tried to persuade people to his views. It'll be interesting to hear more of what is in LM's notebooks - it was the nature of Hinckley's odd and threatening attempts to communicate with Jodie Foster (the actress) that made the jury think he was insane.

I guess. LM certainly has excellent representation. The lawyers might also want a plea bargain. I do think he'd have a more pleasant incarceration if he were in federal prison - and he fits the type who might be able to arrange that (he has money of his own, apparently).

 

[BrianJohnson]

I think so too. What's most interesting to me is that typically this would be a state level crime - but because New York's voters and legislators have banned the death penalty altogether as I understand it, I want to know if NY Prosecutors reached out to the Feds to help put a pinch move on LM. Something about that doesn't sit right with me. If it's an entirely independent process, that's one thing. IOW, if this is typical of what the Feds charge as terrorism, I think it's somewhat precedent setting.

Serial killers are terrorists, then. I've never felt comfortable voicing that, but this case brings the issue to the fore.

Another example would be a much more publicized crime - the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan by Hinckley. It was clearly politically motivated - but as a lone shooter and due to the evolution of the definition of "terrorism," that's not how it was charged.

Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity. He had been writing threatening-type notes/letters and even stalking a previous president (Carter). He was not all there, to be sure. I am not sure LM is all there, either. Hinckley distributed some of his political views at Yale and tried to persuade people to his views. It'll be interesting to hear more of what is in LM's notebooks - it was the nature of Hinckley's odd and threatening attempts to communicate with Jodie Foster (the actress) that made the jury think he was insane.

I guess. LM certainly has excellent representation. The lawyers might also want a plea bargain. I do think he'd have a more pleasant incarceration if he were in federal prison - and he fits the type who might be able to arrange that (he has money of his own, apparently).

I think the state prosecuters are genuinely worried about the prospect of jury nullification given his popularity among a sector of the public so called in the feds to turn the screws to get him to make some sort of deal to avoid a trial altogether. There will be a lot of negotiations and horse trading going on I think to reach a deal. His team will probably want a guarantee of no Supermax prison, no death penalty, the prospect of parole at some point.

 

[citygirl]

So ridiculous right? Are they hoping the footage will be used as part of the Netflix docudrama ? I cannot imagine how anybody thought this was a good idea. But once again here we are - in a reality tv show world

Besides making them selves look foolish, imo, they are making the killer look like a leader of a movement and giving him importance he really doesn't deserve
Pretty much the opposite of what they should be doing.
I am even more convinced that this case won't ever go to trial.
There will be a plea . And I don't see him serving life without parole
There will be lots of maneuvering behind the scenes on this one
His lawyer is very sharp, the family has means and clout and well, we all know how that can work out...
JMO

The only good thing is his parents won’t suffer through a trial
MOO

 

[sds71]

Luigi Mangione is expected to appear in Manhattan Supreme Court Monday for his arraignment on state murder and terrorism charges, according to DA Alvin Bragg’s office, which is coordinating with federal authorities.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1870214226851065890

 

[Friday Fan]

DBM..silly comment

 

[Sundog]

The only good thing is his parents won’t suffer through a trial
MOO

But how will the victim's family feel about it? Will they feel that is justice for Brian?

 

[BrianJohnson]

But how will the victim's family feel about it? Will they feel that is justice for Brian?

The risk of jury nullification is very real, even more so after the events of yesterday, cutting a deal of 40 years or something in jail might be as good as it gets and worth agreeing to

 

[CrimeDawg123]

It’s that Mayor that puts this over the top, imo.

LE has a job to do there so even if it is a bit much they are taking it seriously got plenty on hand just in case.

[...]

In a rare move, New York City Mayor Eric Adams joined officials in escorting Mangione, walking a few paces behind the suspect.
>>>
Adams told reporters after the escort, with NYPD Commissioner Jessica Tisch beside him. “We wanted to personally be here to show the symbolism of leading from the front.”

[...]

Weisberg said, adding that it could backfire by highlighting his image in the public sphere even further.

Paparazzi and protesters: CEO shooting suspect's unusual journey to New York City

Experts say Luigi Mangione's highly publicized arrival in New York City was an attempt by authorities to make a statement.

www.usatoday.com

Isn’t that, with the Mayor partaking, a deliberate pretrial extrajudicial statement from the government going to circumstances occurring outside of the courtroom that taint the proceedings depriving the suspect of his constitutional rights of a fair trial?

Although there may be some seeing a guilty handcuffed man delivered to the jaws of justice, as I guess LE had hoped, now there’s plenty that will see a confused young man looking like a fish out of water ganged up on by everyone from the Mayor on down.


all imo

That little stunt seemed to backfire and made Adams look foolish. Again.

 

[Furore]

I can’t help but feel the media amd the photogenicity are influencing justice here. Why doesn’t the average shooter get federal charges?

With respect to juries, I feel the principle of “cold justice” ie that devolved to a central government with a judge removed from the situation rather than neighbour on neighbour or direct victim relative revenge, is to be judged by a jury of one’s peers and clearly there are some in the country who do “support” some of LM’s principles so for society’s sake it’s important their views get represented - that said I suspect when sitting through sober days of evidence and directly asked whether LM murdered BT, there is one conclusion. Likewise I am not convinced all will agree beyond doubt it is terrorism but maybe that is where society stands too….

JMO / I do not condone murder!

 

[Furore]

But how will the victim's family feel about it? Will they feel that is justice for Brian?

It’s hard to put ourselves in their shoes, however if someone had killed my loved one to make a statement/political point I’m not sure I would want the perp to have the platform of a trial, or have to see details in the news every day. They’ve withdrawn very much from any press or media and not made many statements. I think to them any lengthy sentence managed without a circus would be welcome but JMO

 

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[Friday Fan]

Discussion of the application of New York state's anti-terrorism statute and murder charges.

How N.Y. prosecutors used a terrorism law in the charges against Luigi Mangione

Mangione was charged under a state law that allows for stiffer sentences for terrifying civilians or influencing government. He is currently jailed in Pennsylvania.

whyy.org

Bronx gang member accused of killing a 10-year-old girl and paralyzing a man at a christening party. His conviction was overturned because it wasn't considered terrorism NY's top court: NYC gang member not a terrorist

Bronx prosecutors argued the gang sought to intimidate the entire Mexican-American community in the neighborhood. The anti-terrorism law applies to crimes committed with “intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population.”

A white man who committed a brutal hate crime it was considered terrorism. White supremacist sentenced for killing black man with sword

Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance read excerpts from James Jackson’s hate-filled manifesto as he decried the “horror of his actions” when he fatally stabbed 66-year-old Timothy Caughman in March 2017 after stalking a number of black men in New York City.

“James Jackson is a white supremacist and a terrorist,” Vance said of the Baltimore man and veteran who served in Afghanistan.

I guess it all depends on how the jury sees it etc....

The other cases cited are obvious forms of terrorism.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It may be a legitimate charge, but the DA has enough without complicating the case with this charge--

I strongly agree. Most of the people who are apparently supporting him, do not think he is a terrorist. If the prosecution brings on a strong case of terrorism, some jurors who were approved because of apparent neutrality regarding the murder, might have a hard time accepting terrorism, when they have to consider 'to what degree were massive numbers of Americans threatened?' Much grayer than did he murder someone or not.

 

[citygirl]

I strongly agree. Most of the people who are apparently supporting him, do not think he is a terrorist. If the prosecution brings on a strong case of terrorism, some jurors who were approved because of apparent neutrality regarding the murder, might have a hard time accepting terrorism, when they have to consider 'to what degree were massive numbers of Americans threatened?' Much grayer than did he murder someone or not.

Would the fact that he had no prior offenses to this play a part?

 

[Kapua]

I think the state prosecuters are genuinely worried about the prospect of jury nullification given his popularity among a sector of the public so called in the feds to turn the screws to get him to make some sort of deal to avoid a trial altogether. There will be a lot of negotiations and horse trading going on I think to reach a deal. His team will probably want a guarantee of no Supermax prison, no death penalty, the prospect of parole at some point.

Oh, I am pretty certain there will be negotiations. We have top attorneys vs. NYC and the feds, and both the state and fed seem to want to make an example of him to prevent copycat assassinations and to send the message that you cannot do this in NYC.

But you are one of the few discussing the possibility that there may not be a trial. I'm not taking any bets one way or the other, but I think LM and his attorneys should definitely consider avoiding a trial as should the state/feds. A prolonged jury trial will cost the state a ridiculous amount of money and be a total media circus. I can almost visualize it. IMHO, regardless of LM's momentary fame, or rather infamy, he's going to spend a L O N G time behind bars. The evidence is abundant and solid. A jury has to decide based on the evidence presented.

So we will see if this actually does go to trial.

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

DutyRon & Waĺlace, the best of the retired nyc detective shows, imo. Every time I look at that pic it seems more ridiculous.

 

[NuttMegg]

I strongly agree. Most of the people who are apparently supporting him, do not think he is a terrorist. If the prosecution brings on a strong case of terrorism, some jurors who were approved because of apparent neutrality regarding the murder, might have a hard time accepting terrorism, when they have to consider 'to what degree were massive numbers of Americans threatened?' Much grayer than did he murder someone or not.

Ppl denied, delayed, deposed to receive healthcare they write out a check for each month feel terrorized.

 

[LinasK]

1


I feel the opposite. I just don't believe they should showcase the terrorism. Do the COLD BLOODED murder.
The post back thread, by @legalese, said it "right" to me.

Geez though, Adams....AND the perp walk...NY can really do better than this.

Having both a Federal and State trial is insurance that he gets convicted, should one be overturned, and a state conviction can't be pardoned. See David DePape- the attacker of Nancy Pelosi's husband. He's never getting out and it's a good thing.

 

[LinasK]

Ppl denied, delayed, deposed to receive healthcare they write out a check for each month feel terrorized.

Murder isn't how you change the system. And Mangione didn't even have UHC or know his victim!