NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[BrianJohnson]

Thanks for sharing that. I really had no idea the story was that widespread. I totally agree that the feds have fueled the fire.

Huge coverage here in UK too, the murder itself was front page news and even yesterday when LM was having his latest perp walk Sky News broke away from their coverage to show LM being escorted

 

[Baby baby Jane]

I disagree. This would have still been a massive case if it was the CEO of any other industry, just because of the completely unprecedented nature of the crime (and yes, the fact that it was a CEO). The difference is that there wouldn't be such a loud vocal minority siding with a cold blooded killer, which would have mitigated the circus.

New York would still have the same concerns, especially being the business capital of the world. Companies are based there, businesses have their meetings there, Wall Street is there. A CEO gunned down on the street for the world to see, just cannot stand. You'd better rise to the occasion, lest you become a laughingstock by letting this guy get away with it.

This guy wanted to spread his message, and wanted attention on a psychological level too (his ego) - I believe this was for his own gratification more than anything.

The infuriating mistake they've made is what you, I, and pretty much everyone else is criticizing. They are inadvertently elevating his stature, while simultaneously making themselves look like the villain. This is embarrassing, and Adams bears much of the blame. He's not just grandstanding, but no doubt pulling the strings.

LM didn't need to be flown from Pennsylvania to New York. He didn't need to be transported by helicopter to where Adams was standing. He didn't need to be marched alongside a parade of heavily armed tactical officers.

Their inability to comprehend the optics here is astounding.

Group discussing this … some agreement that driving him on public roads raised certain risks for him / officers:
-Other cars on road possible creating disturbance for LE convoy.
-Traffic could create unexpected risks esp on this busy route.
-LM needing toilet & needing to stop also creating risks.
Flights by their nature lessen risks as airfields generally already secure and travel is fast. Public can’t really interfere as easily as could on a public highway.
Less staff & vehicles required using flights as it’s a round trip … incurring costs which might be equivalent as to flights

 

[DizzyB]

Yes, it's alarming. And, shocking. But, it's also fascinating.

I've been trying to wrap my head around it since the killing took place, and T-shirts appeared with the words, "Defend, Delay, Depose."

I don't know if it will reach the level of becoming a "movement," but it's a sociopolitical powder

Were there more words on bullets? I was curious how “depose” got in there, replacing delay if he was quoting the book. Was there some kind of meaning in that?

 

[GRT]

Were there more words on bullets? I was curious how “depose” got in there, replacing delay if he was quoting the book. Was there some kind of meaning in that?

No. That's my mistake. I meant Defend, Deny, and Depose. I don't think he used the word "delay" although that's in the book title.

As I understood it -- "depose" meant to "get rid of" like deposing a dictator by overthrowing him or something.

 

[Sunshynn]

Were there more words on bullets? I was curious how “depose” got in there, replacing delay if he was quoting the book. Was there some kind of meaning in that?

As others have said, it mirrors closely the book critical of the Health Insurance Business "Delay, Deny, Defend"

But, LM was wanting to send a message so by switching 'Delay" to 'Depose' which means - according to Merriam-Webster - "

verb (used with object)​

deposed, deposing.

1. to remove from office or position, especially high office:
   The people deposed the dictator.
2. to testify or affirm under oath, especially in a written statement:
   to depose that it was true.
3. Law. to take the deposition of; examine under oath:
   Two lawyers deposed the witness

MOO - but it was word play and LM certainly did depose someone from high office but also a deposition is normally how you would settle a insurance dispute.

 

[NuttMegg]

No. That's my mistake. I meant Defend, Deny, and Depose. I don't think he used the word "delay" although that's in the book title.

As I understood it -- "depose" meant to "get rid of" like deposing a dictator by overthrowing him or something.

In this context, imo it means to make a person who was denied healthcare take the "health care middlemen" to court. Which most people don't have the resources to carry out. And which would undoubtedly cost way more than gma's denied post stroke care. And would make the person denied the health care have to take time from work, hire private health care aide to stay with gma, hire lawyers, etc.

 

[indicolite22]

And the police/feds really have added fuel to the fire. I was just looking at an Irish national broadcaster article of pictures of the year of 2024, and Mangione in his orange jumpsuit surrounded by heavily armed cops is there alongside the likes of Trump's attempted assassination, the death of Navalny and the fall of the Assad regime in Syria. This is not your average murder and the international coverage reflects that for better or worse. We don't have the same healthcare expense/access issues here in Europe (we have our own different healthcare problems, depending on the country and health service) but this case is getting a huge amount of attention around the world.

Also here in Europe, the general sentiment among the public is that the health insurance companies had it coming. To me, murder is murder. The perp didn't have a personal grievance, nor was he forced to kill. There are better ways to deal with the problem. IMO he (at least partly) did it for the notoriety. Now he thinks he can get away with it with the help of (misguided IMO) public sympathy.

 

[Sunshynn]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>


I have not read the book either but was just going by what has been reference here and with the media. I looked it up <modsnip - quoted post was removed>- it is more about Property and Casualty/Auto Insurance and denying claims.

Delay, Deny, Defend By Jay Feinman

MOO, but I think that this, in a way, proves that LM was just looking to metaphorically cut the head off of any snake and that, as noted in his notebook, an insurance CEO would do because they checked his boxes for whatever his motive was.

 

[citygirl]

Luigi Mangione's emotional reaction to his fawning fans

Mangione, who pleaded not guilty on Monday to state murder and terror charges, has received thousands of dollars in donations and hundreds of handwritten letters in jail.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Luigi’s reaction.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I really appreciate your well thought out intelligent post and agree with you. I had a discussion with a very good friend of mine yesterday and her feeling is that while she doesn't believe LM is a hero, she does not care one bit that he murdered Mr. Thompson, since it is her belief that by virtue of his position at UHC he murdered some people by denying them care.

Wings, how old was this person....
I know the mods don't want extensive off-topic on "age".......... however, "age" does have some statistical bearing here....
If this sentiment is an older ( I know..relative) rather than young person... then maybe there is more of a "silent" older population with such a virtuous sentiment as your friend.....
Maybe something to watch over time with the case.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I have not read the book either but was just going by what has been reference here and with the media. I looked it up and you are correct - it is more about Property and Casualty/Auto Insurance and denying claims.

Delay, Deny, Defend By Jay Feinman

MOO, but I think that this, in a way, proves that LM was just looking to metaphorically cut the head off of any snake and that, as noted in his notebook, an insurance CEO would do because they checked his boxes for whatever his motive was.

I agree with your statement below.... It was not the book, just the visual methaphor to stress his "message".

MOO, but I think that this, in a way, proves that LM was just looking to metaphorically cut the head off of any snake and that, as noted in his notebook, an insurance CEO would do because they checked his boxes for whatever his motive was.

 

[Jw192]

<modsnip: Quoted / referenced post was removed>

I don't find myself agreeing with the people who are saying the "CCTV" photos and LM aren't the same person though. As it's been said, angles, picture quality etc... I personally believe that the smiley hoodie pictures are indeed LM and hey, I even think that LM committed the act, but of course it's up to the prosecution to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and unless they have that exact hooded person on surveillance leaving the hostel to committing the act WITHOUT ANY breaks in line of sight, I think they have themselves a bit of a pickle. Even then, the crime footage shows no face... they have DNA on the wrapper/bottle but those were NOT AT the crime scene... Pickles. Ofc though it's what was on LM's person when they copped him that's their strongest evidence imo, but even then it's a good defenses job and craft to sow even that tiniest seed of reasonable doubt.
Again though, I personally think it's him and him alone. I think it was his plan to be caught and to be caught with exactly what he wanted them to have. I believe the NG plea is because of the 'my brothers bigger than your brother' charges.

Just MOO <3

 

[Sundog]

I’m behind the current posts, but wanted to reply to the idea that LM does not want his parents in court because of their strained relationship. I disagree. I think LM very very much expects someone from his family to make a showing for him in court and as a result continues to search for a familiar face. Everything seems to be on his terms, it’s part of his ego imo. And as he’s getting “dragged” right now, I believe he expects his influential family to make a showing for him, to come through for him; though I do think his atty has told them they that they need to stay away.

I don't think an attorney would tell family members that they need to stay away unless that was the wishes of the client and the attorney was communicating the client's wishes to the family.

 

[detective.moon]

I personally believe that the smiley hoodie pictures are indeed LM and hey, I even think that LM committed the act, but of course it's up to the prosecution to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and unless they have that exact hooded person on surveillance leaving the hostel to committing the act WITHOUT ANY breaks in line of sight, I think they have themselves a bit of a pickle. Even then, the crime footage shows no face... they have DNA on the wrapper/bottle but those were NOT AT the crime scene... Pickles. Ofc though it's what was on LM's person when they copped him that's their strongest evidence imo, but even then it's a good defenses job and craft to sow even that tiniest seed of reasonable doubt.
Again though, I personally think it's him and him alone.

rsbm

yes, i think this is really interesting! i too think it’s the same person, but i too wonder if the defense will be able to make the jury question things

- is it the same person in all the footage?
- the dna was found around a trash can with lots of other trash iirc, not on the crime scene, like you said
- yes he had a gun at the mcdonalds, but LE had been talking about a specific vetinary gun and this was a ghost gun
- yes he had the “letter to the feds”, but did the letter mention anything about the crime that hadn’t been in the media?

etc. etc.

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
I don't find myself somewhat agreeing with the people who are saying the "CCTV" photos and LM aren't the same person though. As it's been said, angles, picture quality etc... I personally believe that the smiley hoodie pictures are indeed LM and hey, I even think that LM committed the act, but of course it's up to the prosecution to prove that beyond reasonable doubt and unless they have that exact hooded person on surveillance leaving the hostel to committing the act WITHOUT ANY breaks in line of sight, I think they have themselves a bit of a pickle. Even then, the crime footage shows no face... they have DNA on the wrapper/bottle but those were NOT AT the crime scene... Pickles. Ofc though it's what was on LM's person when they copped him that's their strongest evidence imo, but even then it's a good defenses job and craft to sow even that tiniest seed of reasonable doubt.
Again though, I personally think it's him and him alone. I think it was his plan to be caught and to be caught with exactly what he wanted them to have. I believe the NG plea is because of the 'my brothers bigger than your brother' charges.

Just MOO <3

Before becoming his attorney, Karen Agnifilo said that the evidence was overwhelming, and his best bet wouldn't be arguing his innocence, but using some sort of insanity defense.

In terms of evidence, this is a prosecution's dream. No case has evidence this broad, and this strong. In regards to the video evidence, there is so much we haven't seen. That ABC News special the other night showed images that hadn't been released before, and it's clear we're watching the same guy (clothing, that conspicuous backpack, etc). They had a starting point with the hostel, and were able to pick him up along the way.

Someone at Mcdonalds recognized him as being the guy in the images NYPD released. His fingerprints are on items he purchased, likely tracked down to the CCTV footage. His DNA may be on that cell phone, bullet casings, and infamous backpack, and if they crack that phone they'll likely have a plethora of more evidence. The same ID used to check into the hostel was found on his person, and the very weapon used in the crime was in his bag. His notebook and those other notes they found are also key, as they show that he stalked Thompson and planned this crime by using the internet, and ultimately traveled interstate, which supported Federal charges.

His notes also indicate that he expected to be caught, but I definitely don't think this was the time and place he thought it would happen. That's why he lied about his identity, and was visibly shaking. Whatever was coming next, I'm not sure he planned on surviving this. That "manifesto" or whatever you want to call it, kind of read like a suicide note to me. I think it was written when he realized they were closing in.

 

[ilovewings]

Wings, how old was this person....
I know the mods don't want extensive off-topic on "age".......... however, "age" does have some statistical bearing here....
If this sentiment is an older ( I know..relative) rather than young person... then maybe there is more of a "silent" older population with such a virtuous sentiment as your friend.....
Maybe something to watch over time with the case.

She is not really old- early 50s

 

[MassGuy]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Why did he lie about his identity?

Why did he have the exact same fake ID on him that was used at the hostel?

Why are his fingerprints on multiple items at the scene?

Why did he have a gun and silencer in his backpack that matched the video and ballistic evidence respectively?

Why did he have a notebook on him that not only confessed to the murder, but explained his reasoning and how he did it?

How did he look so much like the guy that NYPD was looking for, that a woman was able to recognize him?

What about the DNA that will certainly match?

What about his mother apparently indicating this is something she could see him doing?

Etc. etc. etc.

 

[Moonchild90]

Luigi Mangione's emotional reaction to his fawning fans

Mangione, who pleaded not guilty on Monday to state murder and terror charges, has received thousands of dollars in donations and hundreds of handwritten letters in jail.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Luigi’s reaction.

"The IVY league graduate is said to be used to receiving attention from 'men and women alike' but 'not to this level."

Ha ha ha

 

[JDG]

<modsnip: Quoted/referenced post was removed> ... the dead CEO Brian Thompson.

He was shot, in a very cowardly way, in the back.

I think I have a good idea who did it.

 

[NuttMegg]

<modsnip: Quoted/referenced post was removed> ... the dead CEO Brian Thompson.

He was shot, in a very cowardly way, in the back.

I think I have a good idea who did it.

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

Once the jury (and judge) decide what to do with him, based on the skills of prosecutor/defense, like it or not that is BT's justice. We've watched all sorts of inequities here on WS, we may be seeing Scott P walking around on the street. I don't care what happens to LM if he is fairly charged.