NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #11 *Arrest*

[Jw192]

Planning matching outfits is so unserious lol

Actually the opposite. Psychologically speaking it's a very clever play and is used way more than you think. Think about uniforms as an example, aside from them being a tool and a representation of a company, it's a united front. That's what they did here. They put on a united front, a show of camaraderie . A none verbal way of showing the bond and commitment. If you looked too, Mr A also had on the burgundy tie which matched their jumpers. Like a families holiday card outfits and whether you think it's cringe or in bad taste, subconsciously it shows you that they're a unit and again, it's a clever play.

Hope everyone had a beautiful Christmas <3

 

[Jw192]

A question I have here is from the fed drop...

It states the hostel is located in the upper west side of Manhattan yah? And the hotel crime scene is Hilton midtown on 6th ave... In the fed docs it states the alleged shooter left the upper west side hostel via ebike at approx* 5:35am down Central park west, and at approx* 5:41am the alleged shooter is seen WALKING around the area of the hotel...

Ok, so these timings have gotta be way off. Like they have to be. I've tried every single hostel in the upper west side to the Hilton midtown and the fastest I can get it is 18 minutes by bike and 13/14 by car. Now this was an ebike so I gather it's somewhat faster than a normal bike and bike lanes may be faster, but according to the doc - in 6 minutes the alleged shooter travelled from the upper west side to 6th ave, somehow unmounted and stashed the ebike, and began walking around the vicinity of the hotel to be caught on camera... Umm :/
To add, after the shooting it claims the perp fled on foot to west 55th street where he got back on THE ebike and off he went. From the Hilton to W 55th it's approx 10 minutes on foot, say 6 running, so that would add another 6 minutes at least onto the time before surely? If that's where he stashed the bike... So the perp went from the upper west side to W 55th (approx 13 mins) got off the bike and then walked/ran (approx 10/6 mins) to the hotel... He did all of that in 6 minutes?

I get the approx* but surely they haven't messed the times up this much and they have the super fast Usain Bolt type journey all on CCTV with time stamps as the defense is gonna be like say whut?!

ETA - We also have the dude who gave news interviews right after the crime stating that he saw the shooter (described the clothing and bag) and said that he was hanging around "all night"... Ofc though we know what eye witness testimonies are like and he could be a total blagger so I'm not giving it a whole lot of weight. It's gonna be an interesting time as the hearings go along that's for sure

 

[peas n carrots]

I guarantee that there will be jurors sympathetic to UHC. I would be if I were selected for this jury.

I doubt anyone is going to have sympathy towards UHC - even amongst people sympathetic to BT there is a huge public antipathy towards US private health care providers, and it’s been there a very long time.

The only tiny silver lining about this case is that it has restarted the conversation on how health care is delivered in this country and it has united this highly polarized country like nothing else has since 9/11.

 

[Marantz4250b]

If LM does have the kind of money that a person would need to pay attorneys from the law firm of Agnifilo Intrater LLP, the firm that is also representing Sean "Diddy" Combs, then I wonder if Brian Thompson's family would consider filing a civil lawsuit against LM to get some justice for Brian. Brian's family could donate any award received to the charity of their choice.

Also, I wonder if Brian Thompson's family could file a civil lawsuit against LM's family, given the mother's statement that she believed that LM could do something like murder Brian Thompson and it wasn't reported to the authorities that not only was he missing, but he could be a threat to the public.

I wonder if these kinds of civil lawsuits could also help with getting information through depositions, information that might be useful to the prosecutors in both the state and federal cases.

I can't see what possible legal basis anyone would have a file something against LM's family. He's an adult and makes hiw own decisions.

 

[detective.moon]

is it likely BT’s sons will make an impact statement at the trial? i realised i haven’t seen any pictures of BT with his family

 

[Jw192]

is it likely BT’s sons will make an impact statement at the trial? i realised i haven’t seen any pictures of BT with his family

I think they're only young lads so not sure if they would. BT and his wife were separated and co-parenting and I believe the boys lives with their mama.

 

[tlcya]

That has me curious also. Its strange that they hired a PI to locate him for a missing persons report. Was it to spy on him? Were they afraid he was going to commit a crime?

The parents and/or the PI had to recognize him from the photos. Something seems to be up with the parents. I’m not sure what it could be but there are missing pieces.

PRE MURDER POST MISSING: I don't find them hiring a PI at all unusual or telling. Their adult son was in the wind, totally incommunicado. They reported him missing but he was 26 years old. We here have seen how difficult it is to get LE interested in investigating an adult MP case where there is no concern by LE that foul play has caused the disappearance. They had the means to hire a PI and good reason to believe LE wasn't going to be doing much to find their son aside from filing the missing persons report. I would hire a PI as well in that situation.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It doesn't matter what age he is. If a close family member knew or suspected that he could be a danger to society then they should have reported it and warned LE and shared with them whatever they knew or suspected. Did they know he had gone off the deep end about the health care industry? Did the family fear him because he was acting strangely and they felt they could be in danger, too? This is all hypothetical, of course, but questions could be asked during depositions.

If they knew with a high degree of certainty that he was going to kill someone then you may have a point. Let's remember, though, that they hadn't even seen him in months.

I doubt they knew anything really about him at this point. Then again, they have have done. Maybe that's why they were trying to locate him.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This is what I've been thinking as well.

LM has truly painted himself into a corner. If he wants people to support his cause, then he has to stand by his cause. If he wants to avoid prison, he has to denounce his actions and/or blame them on mental health disturbance. In which case, he's admitting his beliefs have an invalid basis.

As an engineering student, he would be well-versed in the importance of logic and rationality in decision-making. He must feel deeply conflicted at this point, as there is no logical way out of the mess he created for himself.

Truth. On the Horns of a Dilemma....

 

[GRT]

PRE MURDER POST MISSING: I don't find them hiring a PI at all unusual or telling. Their adult son was in the wind, totally incommunicado. They reported him missing but he was 26 years old. We here have seen how difficult it is to get LE interested in investigating an adult MP case where there is no concern by LE that foul play has caused the disappearance. They had the means to hire a PI and good reason to believe LE wasn't going to be doing much to find their son aside from filing the missing persons report. I would hire a PI as well in that situation.

Yeah, if you had the money and just wanted to know where your child was--you'd likely hire a PI.

There's no evidence they tried to convince him to return home.

 

[Marantz4250b]

A few days ago, the idea of jury nullification came up here at WS, and legal experts agree that there's a high risk according to Newsweek.



I can't remember a case where a killer had so much support.

I'm still of the opinion that that is not going to happen. This was a cold-blooded killing in a busy street done apparently for political purposes. Regardless of the level of sympathy LM might be garnering, I do not believe that a jury will allow political points to be made via murder.

A jury who acquits him is effectively saying that the law doesn't apply as long as your beliefs are strongly enough held. They will basically be saying that anyone who disagrees with their acquittal is entitled to shoot them all dead as they're leaving the court because they don't think the decision. Can't have it both ways - what's good for one is good for the other.

Sorry but that is simply the path to madness and the USA may as well fire every judge and close every court and let people sort their problems with firearms.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I'm still of the opinion that that is not going to happen. This was a cold-blooded killing in a busy street done apparently for political purposes. Regardless of the level of sympathy LM might be garnering, I do not believe that a jury will allow political points to be made via murder.

A jury who acquits him is effectively saying that the law doesn't apply as long as your beliefs are strongly enough held. They will basically be saying that anyone who disagrees with their acquittal is entitled to shoot them all dead as they're leaving the court because they don't think the decision. Can't have it both ways - what's good for one is good for the other.

Sorry but that is simply the path to madness and the USA may as well fire every judge and close every court and let people sort their problems with firearms.

A jury who acquits him is effectively saying that the law doesn't apply as long as your beliefs are strongly enough held.

This was the very dilemma with Kyle Rittenhouse, to me.

<modsnip>

 

[Kapua]

America didn't put this into stone, it's New York State law. Whether it'll be successful is up for debate, but it's there.

Three days after the murder I concluded on here that this was a terrorist act. I did not think it could be prosecuted as such, but the motive was clearly designed to intimidate the health insurance industry. He made that absolutely clear with the words on the bullets, and the Monopoly money.

Just as important as that though, was the fact that this was intentionally committed in the middle of New York City, for all the world to see. It was not about killing one man, not even close. It was designed to be a spectacle, and to accomplish a goal.

Why wouldn't anyone want an unprecedented crime punished to the maximum extent of the law? My guess, is that many people are making a value judgement based on who the victim is. I'll also bet the "due process" crowd would have a very different take if the victim was pretty much anyone else.

That's not how it works.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

I'm addressing only the "who the victim was" part of your post.

This morning, I did some research into a case which bears a few similarities; the murder of John Lennon by Mark David Chapman. The victim in that case was a well-known, well-loved popular musician, the perpetrator targeted and stalked his victim, and then shot him in the back on the street in NYC.

Chapman was influenced by the book "The Catcher in the Rye" by J.D. Salinger, much as LM was influenced by Ted Kaczynski's book. According to Wikipedia, Chapman was convicted of second-degree murder in NY, and sentenced to 20 years to life. He is now eligible for parole and has been denied parole thirteen times. He has been getting conjugal visits with his wife since 2014. Also, he pled guilty to his crimes.

My point is that this was the outcome with a well-loved victim who was shot in the back in NYC. So if the jury (if there is one), or the court goes by the law rather than who the victim was, LM will receive a similar sentence. (We will see what happens with the terrorism charges). I should add that MDC exhibited a lot of psychological problems long prior to the murder and LM's mental problems, for lack of a diagnosis, presented only in the recent past.

Mark David Chapman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MassGuy]

A jury who acquits him is effectively saying that the law doesn't apply as long as your beliefs are strongly enough held.

This was the very dilemma with Kyle Rittenhouse, to me.

<modsnip>

I don't think the Rittenhouse case, nor the recent Penny case (also in New York), are even in the same universe as the facts we have here.

In those cases you had self defense arguments, and I expected both to have the outcomes they did; I wasn't remotely surprised.

Here you have a cold blooded, premeditated murder. There is zero self defense argument. I have never seen a case with this amount of evidence not result in a guilty verdict.

 

[GRT]

A jury who acquits him is effectively saying that the law doesn't apply as long as your beliefs are strongly enough held.

This was the very dilemma with Kyle Rittenhouse, to me.

Now that you mention the Rittenhouse case, I can see the similarity. I hadn't followed that trial closely but I was surprised at the verdict.

 

[MassGuy]

Now that you mention the Rittenhouse case, I can see the similarity. I hadn't followed that trial closely but I was surprised at the verdict.

I would have been absolutely shocked at the verdict had I not followed the trial. I had made up my mind from the outset, and thought it was pretty clear cut murder.

I ultimately thought it was more probable than not he got off. I believed Penny had a much better shot than that.

But you just don’t have facts like that here. LM was on a mission, and you could literally see this case being used an example of first degree murder in some college textbook.

If only NY had that law on the books like every other state…

 

[acutename]

A question I have here is from the fed drop...

It states the hostel is located in the upper west side of Manhattan yah? And the hotel crime scene is Hilton midtown on 6th ave... In the fed docs it states the alleged shooter left the upper west side hostel via ebike at approx* 5:35am down Central park west, and at approx* 5:41am the alleged shooter is seen WALKING around the area of the hotel...

Ok, so these timings have gotta be way off. Like they have to be. I've tried every single hostel in the upper west side to the Hilton midtown and the fastest I can get it is 18 minutes by bike and 13/14 by car. Now this was an ebike so I gather it's somewhat faster than a normal bike and bike lanes may be faster, but according to the doc - in 6 minutes the alleged shooter travelled from the upper west side to 6th ave, somehow unmounted and stashed the ebike, and began walking around the vicinity of the hotel to be caught on camera... Umm :/
To add, after the shooting it claims the perp fled on foot to west 55th street where he got back on THE ebike and off he went. From the Hilton to W 55th it's approx 10 minutes on foot, say 6 running, so that would add another 6 minutes at least onto the time before surely? If that's where he stashed the bike... So the perp went from the upper west side to W 55th (approx 13 mins) got off the bike and then walked/ran (approx 10/6 mins) to the hotel... He did all of that in 6 minutes?

I get the approx* but surely they haven't messed the times up this much and they have the super fast Usain Bolt type journey all on CCTV with time stamps as the defense is gonna be like say whut?!

ETA - We also have the dude who gave news interviews right after the crime stating that he saw the shooter (described the clothing and bag) and said that he was hanging around "all night"... Ofc though we know what eye witness testimonies are like and he could be a total blagger so I'm not giving it a whole lot of weight. It's gonna be an interesting time as the hearings go along that's for sure

I have always wondered how they connected their various surveillance pictures- some are not very "identifiable" IMO, e.g. how they connected the bus arrival video(?) (not seen, assume? it exists) with the particular hostel, etc. to even know to review video at the various locations. I could see a defense argument that some of the video they say is LM is not IMO.

 

[acutename]

Someone up above thought it was a brilliant move on her part and I have to say I totally agree. Her husband even had a matching tie. From a defense attorney’s perspective, if Nordstrom is selling out of their sweater because of the team image you created with your client, that’s a good thing. (Rolls eyes)
And ps. The irony is that LM must have hated that sweater and the idea. lol

I wonder if they were just wearing it because of the holidays- red... and maybe they had a sweater in LM's size- do we know they bought it for him? His atty had crutches a few days ago and was surprised by the additional federal charges, so how much time did they have for wardrobe analysis and shopping?

 

[acutename]

is it likely BT’s sons will make an impact statement at the trial? i realised i haven’t seen any pictures of BT with his family

I do not get the impression that the family esp minors, want public exposure IMO

 

[MassGuy]

A question I have here is from the fed drop...

It states the hostel is located in the upper west side of Manhattan yah? And the hotel crime scene is Hilton midtown on 6th ave... In the fed docs it states the alleged shooter left the upper west side hostel via ebike at approx* 5:35am down Central park west, and at approx* 5:41am the alleged shooter is seen WALKING around the area of the hotel...

Ok, so these timings have gotta be way off. Like they have to be. I've tried every single hostel in the upper west side to the Hilton midtown and the fastest I can get it is 18 minutes by bike and 13/14 by car. Now this was an ebike so I gather it's somewhat faster than a normal bike and bike lanes may be faster, but according to the doc - in 6 minutes the alleged shooter travelled from the upper west side to 6th ave, somehow unmounted and stashed the ebike, and began walking around the vicinity of the hotel to be caught on camera... Umm :/
To add, after the shooting it claims the perp fled on foot to west 55th street where he got back on THE ebike and off he went. From the Hilton to W 55th it's approx 10 minutes on foot, say 6 running, so that would add another 6 minutes at least onto the time before surely? If that's where he stashed the bike... So the perp went from the upper west side to W 55th (approx 13 mins) got off the bike and then walked/ran (approx 10/6 mins) to the hotel... He did all of that in 6 minutes?

I get the approx* but surely they haven't messed the times up this much and they have the super fast Usain Bolt type journey all on CCTV with time stamps as the defense is gonna be like say whut?!

ETA - We also have the dude who gave news interviews right after the crime stating that he saw the shooter (described the clothing and bag) and said that he was hanging around "all night"... Ofc though we know what eye witness testimonies are like and he could be a total blagger so I'm not giving it a whole lot of weight. It's gonna be an interesting time as the hearings go along that's for sure

This is not something the Feds would screw up, and only random people on the internet would figure out. I've got it at 3.3 miles, and it only says that he was walking around the "area." What's the "area?'"

They know where he started, and know what he was wearing and carrying when the murder occurred. This also didn't occur during a time of day where there would be lots of people around, which could lead to possible confusion. That backpack is the equivalent of him carrying a sign that says "I'm the murderer."

None of this is going to be in dispute, especially considering the same fake ID found on his person (used at the hostel), same gun with a silencer, fingerprints, and ultimately DNA.

Some moron the media found saying he was hanging around all night is going to be irrelevant. They'll have video from him walking out of the hostel, traveling to the scene, and committing the murder.