NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*

[Sundog]

He should not have lashed out, taken it out on Thompson. Somehow, Luigi had developed a huge grudge toward the healthcare system.

<Snipped for focus>


LM was looking for a target and he wrote in his notebook that Brian Thompson and the health care company he worked for "checked all the boxes." It could have been some other industry and some other CEO. That IS terrorism, IMO.

 

[LinasK]

Of course it's possible, but I am inclined to be skeptical as well because Luigi seems like a very intelligent person. He graduated with two degrees from Uni of PA, which is an Ivy.

Intelligence doesn't equal common sense. Criminals still think that they are smarter than police.

 

[waldojabba]

Any alleged criminal should be "let loose" if there are egregious due process violations. No one deserves to have their civil rights violated. It is the foundation of our criminal justice system.

I share your frustration when the state or LEO botch a case. It is enraging when that happens. However, I would rather see the most evil person get to walk then see anyone have their civil rights violated. We all need to have our civil rights respected.

Totally agree
That is why when LE is so nonchalant about the legalities - it makes my blood boil.
JMO

 

[waldojabba]

Intelligence doesn't equal common sense. Criminals still think that they are smarter than police.

There are many types of criminals of all shapes and sizes and of various intellectual abilities.
Some are street smart others not. Common sense is a rare commodity it seems these days amongst a broad swath of the population.
It is difficult for me to paint any group with such a broad brush - life is rarely so simple or black and white.
Many white color criminals never see the inside of a prison. We see it in the news frequently.
All my opinion of course.

 

[TalkToTofana]

Intelligence doesn't equal common sense. Criminals still think that they are smarter than police.

Clearly some criminals have gotten away with infamous crimes. I just think the generalization does not make sense.

 

[PrairieWind]

Any alleged criminal should be "let loose" if there are egregious due process violations. No one deserves to have their civil rights violated. It is the foundation of our criminal justice system.

I share your frustration when the state or LEO botch a case. It is enraging when that happens. However, I would rather see the most evil person get to walk then see anyone have their civil rights violated. We all need to have our civil rights respected.

I don't agree that if a suspects civil rights are violated that the remedy is to let them free. The person that violated the rights should be punished. But if the civil rights violations did not lead to the charges against the suspect, there is no reason to let himher go.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

Due process is a cornerstone of American life. We rely on it daily which is why the actions of the current administration make some people twitchy. Its importance is larger than one civil servant losing their job or being "punished" over a civil rights violation. Entire cities and law enforcement agencies have been punished for violating civil rights of citizens. It's impossible for due process to be made too important. Imo.

 

[TalkToTofana]

I don't agree that if a suspects civil rights are violated that the remedy is to let them free. The person that violated the rights should be punished. But if the civil rights violations did not lead to the charges against the suspect, there is no reason to let himher go.

I am acknowledging your comment. I am reiterating that I disagree with you. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

 

[stanerd]

If a police officer made a mistake arresting/searching a violent criminal, the criminal shouldn't receive a get out of jail free card simply because the cop messed up.

As long as the police acted in good faith, any evidence found on or near the perp should be admitted.

MOO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I think it depends on the mistake. The laws are there for a reason, yet a judge can use wisdom when determining what a mistake means to a case.

This is hypothetical, right? Or do people think LM's rights were violated?

 

[stanerd]

I think it depends on the mistake. The laws are there for a reason, yet a judge can use wisdom when determining what a mistake means to a case.

This is hypothetical, right? Or do people think LM's rights were violated?

The evidentiary hearings were about potential violation of LM's rights. The judge should make a decision in May.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think it depends on the mistake. The laws are there for a reason, yet a judge can use wisdom when determining what a mistake means to a case.

This is hypothetical, right? Or do people think LM's rights were violated?

Certainly the charges are not going to be dismissed, and I think there is little chance much if any evidence is excluded. Maybe some of his statements are excluded but that wont mean much. The police got their warrant hours later and so the evidence would have been inevitably discovered then anyway.

 

[Jw192]

Yes, but his attorney has to ask why they are seeking the DP for him and not for most other people who commit murder in N.Y.

Breaking my promise to not comment on this thread just this once

The answer is unfortunately elitism. No matter how much you wanna dress it down or close your eyes to it. The crime committed here is by NYC's own written statutes murder 2. It's murder 2, the same as every other of the unfortunate massive amount of murder by gun crime cases in NY each and every year. Brian Thompson was not a politician. Brian Thompson was not an elected official. He was the CEO of one of the largest healthcare insurance companies in the USA. A company that has put money into the governments purse. Brian Thompson was a mega rich elite, it's as simple as that. (Brian Thompson was a man, a father and a beloved to his family and friends. A victim. - I feel like I need to point that out as I'm in no way victim blaming here) That is the reason that this case was penned as a murder 1 and terrorism plus a federal death penalty case, as it put the willies up those that live above us and gave them a point to make. That they are untouchable and they want to prove it - one only needs to rewatch that farcical perp walk to see fear and ego of those that pull the strings. That is why and that's why this whole thing is a slap in the face to the victims and families of every other case in NY where a standard murder 2 charge was handed down. Why are their lives worth any less?! Makes me rage.

Someone mentioned how odd that LE found the evidence so easily - There was a written letter to the feds remember. It is of my belief that every single iota of evidence that LE and the feds have was orchestrated to be found. Apprehension was expected after a long enough run around, media circus and exposure andddd evidence was literally gift wrapped. That's what I think. I also think that the Pennsylvania police have seriously messed up in their giddiness to please, and it's a terrible thing and example for law and justice. Sure there's loopholes which I'm sure they will use and wiggle out of their shadiness, but it doesn't look good and needs to be seriously addressed as if cops think they can cut corners and turn their cameras off willynilly, what hope and respect has anybody in law enforcement?
I believe that the NY case is gonna have a hard time through trial and afterwards, they've already had the terrorism farce charges rightfully scrapped. I believe that the fed case will have no choice but to drop the DP, as with all the evidence of prejudice - some directly from the white house, the appeal courts will have a field day.
I believe that the whole thing is an absolute joke and a spit on what justice and law is. A travesty for a man who was killed and his family. A kick to the common citizen and a sham.

If this had have been exactly what it was - murder 2 with the relevant gun charges - I would be sat firmly where I am 99.9% of the time, safely on the prosecution bench. However, due to DA's, law enforcement and the like bending over to politicians and due to me being a firm believer in fair justice, I am very oddly sat solidly in this case on the bench of the defense, which in no way means that I am not wanting justice for BT - I just want fair and accurate justice.

All my own opinion and I'm back to avoiding this thread

 

[LinasK]

Breaking my promise to not comment on this thread just this once

The answer is unfortunately elitism. No matter how much you wanna dress it down or close your eyes to it. The crime committed here is by NYC's own written statutes murder 2. It's murder 2, the same as every other of the unfortunate massive amount of murder by gun crime cases in NY each and every year. Brian Thompson was not a politician. Brian Thompson was not an elected official. He was the CEO of one of the largest healthcare insurance companies in the USA. A company that has put money into the governments purse. Brian Thompson was a mega rich elite, it's as simple as that. (Brian Thompson was a man, a father and a beloved to his family and friends. A victim. - I feel like I need to point that out as I'm in no way victim blaming here) That is the reason that this case was penned as a murder 1 and terrorism plus a federal death penalty case, as it put the willies up those that live above us and gave them a point to make. That they are untouchable and they want to prove it - one only needs to rewatch that farcical perp walk to see fear and ego of those that pull the strings. That is why and that's why this whole thing is a slap in the face to the victims and families of every other case in NY where a standard murder 2 charge was handed down. Why are their lives worth any less?! Makes me rage.

Someone mentioned how odd that LE found the evidence so easily - There was a written letter to the feds remember. It is of my belief that every single iota of evidence that LE and the feds have was orchestrated to be found. Apprehension was expected after a long enough run around, media circus and exposure andddd evidence was literally gift wrapped. That's what I think. I also think that the Pennsylvania police have seriously messed up in their giddiness to please, and it's a terrible thing and example for law and justice. Sure there's loopholes which I'm sure they will use and wiggle out of their shadiness, but it doesn't look good and needs to be seriously addressed as if cops think they can cut corners and turn their cameras off willynilly, what hope and respect has anybody in law enforcement?
I believe that the NY case is gonna have a hard time through trial and afterwards, they've already had the terrorism farce charges rightfully scrapped. I believe that the fed case will have no choice but to drop the DP, as with all the evidence of prejudice - some directly from the white house, the appeal courts will have a field day.
I believe that the whole thing is an absolute joke and a spit on what justice and law is. A travesty for a man who was killed and his family. A kick to the common citizen and a sham.

If this has have been exactly what it was - murder 2 with the relevant gun charges - I would be sat firmly where I am 99.9% of the time, safely on the prosecution bench. However, due to DA's, law enforcement and the like bending over to politicians and due to me being a firm believer in fair justice, I am very oddly sat solidly in this case on the bench of the defense, which in no way means that I am not wanting justice for BT - I just want fair and accurate justice.

All my own opinion and I'm back to avoiding this thread

Why murder 2 when he shot him in the back and premeditated it?

 

[Jw192]

Why murder 2 when he shot him in the back and premeditated it?

Because NY carved it in stone (ETA - That's why they grifted so hard for terrorism, to meet murder 1 but failed to meet their claims)

First-degree murder​

First-degree murder or aggravated murder is the most serious homicide offense in New York state. It is defined as the intentional killing of a person without justification with one of the following aggravating factors:

• The victim was a police officer, peace officer, correctional employee, judge, or a criminal case witness
• The murder was committed while the perpetrator was serving a life sentence
• The murder was committed with torture of the victim
• The murder was committed as an act of terrorism, as defined in the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001
• The murder was committed during the commission or attempted commission of one of the felonies under New York's felony murder laws.
• Murder committed for hire (with the charge applying to both the murderer and the person who paid the murderer)

A defendant under the age of 18 cannot be charged with first-degree murder. First-degree murder is punishable by 20 to 40 years in prison, or life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. The death penalty was ruled unconstitutional in New York under People v. LaValle in 2004.

Second-degree murder​

Second-degree murder is the second most serious homicide offense in New York. It is defined as when someone commits an intentional killing without a felony under New York's felony murder rule, or an unintentional killing which either exhibits a "depraved indifference to human life" or an unintentional killing caused by the commission or attempted commission of a felony under New York's felony murder rule.

Second-degree murder is punishable by 15 years to life-with-parole after 25 years, or life-without-parole if the victim was under 14.

Murder in New York law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[girlhasnoname]

Any alleged criminal should be "let loose" if there are egregious due process violations. No one deserves to have their civil rights violated. It is the foundation of our criminal justice system.

I share your frustration when the state or LEO botch a case. It is enraging when that happens. However, I would rather see the most evil person get to walk then see anyone have their civil rights violated. We all need to have our civil rights respected.

I would say that Brian Thompson's Civil Rights were violated far beyond LM's. If a mistake was made by LE, it should not negate the guilt of a highly planned and organized murder of an innocent 'figure head'.

It's obvious (to me) by the evidence that LM is guilty. He shot and killed an innocent man in cold blood as a political statement. I hope he sits in prison for the rest of his days, without access to the privilege and wealth he was so heavily afforded throughout his life.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, but his attorney has to ask why they are seeking the DP for him and not for most other people who commit murder in N.Y.

Yes, but this was a different type of murder:

Federal prosecutors have also separately charged Mr Mangione for using a firearm to commit murder and interstate stalking resulting in death. These charges make him eligible for the death penalty

Yes, I wondered, too! I think it’s because of the “intent” of the crime. Luigi did not have a close up, personal beef with Thompson, didn’t even personally know him, just looked him up. The murder was researched and planned, meant to send a clear message that Health Insurance Companies are greedy, corrupt. The govt said this method for encouraging social change is considered terrorism. Also, Luigi shot on a crowded street in midtown NYC, endangering others.
Govt may be threatening to impose DP, as a bargaining chip. Probably end up LWOP. I think I read Feds almost always settle( plea), no trial. So terrorism and shooting on a crowded street= possible DP for Feds.

Last note: I wondered if Luigi’s back disability issues will come into play, possible mitigating circumstance, because he was in Chronic pain at such a young age. He had grown despondent and cut off many friends,family the previous year. Life had become small for him, he felt trapped in his own body. Of course, no excuse, He should not have lashed out, taken it out on Thompson. Somehow, Luigi had developed a huge grudge toward the healthcare system.
I am not supportive of Luigi actions, just reviewing the issues at play. I think he is going away. Karen I. will do what she can…

LM's 'chronic' back problems did not prevent him from living a privileged, wealthy lifestyle (Ivy League Valedictorian) repeatedly posting shirtless selfies on his Instagram of him diving, hiking, traveling and the ability to physically perform activities to stay in immaculate physical shape. He was also not covered by United HealthCare insurance at any point.

MOO

 

[SaraSmile]

Yes, but this was a different type of murder:

Federal prosecutors have also separately charged Mr Mangione for using a firearm to commit murder and interstate stalking resulting in death. These charges make him eligible for the death penalty

LM's 'chronic' back problems did not prevent him from living a privileged, wealthy lifestyle (Ivy League Valedictorian) repeatedly posting shirtless selfies on his Instagram of him diving, hiking, traveling and the ability to physically perform activities to stay in immaculate physical shape. He was also not covered by United HealthCare insurance at any point.

MOO

Yes, his message with the shooting was directed to the entire health care system! Amazing he just looked up health care companies, and Brian Thompson fit his plan.

Re Back issues, mitigation, I think Karen I. ( defense) will try everything she can.
He obviously had a lot of metal in spine, previous surgeries. His back had gotten a lot worse, after a surf slip, about a year or so before the crime, physical activity had slowed down.

He did a No Show on one of his best friends weddings. He was out of touch with many regular contacts, including his Mother. Mom knew he was angry, resentful, mentioned to investigators the shooting seems like something Luigi would do! (paraphrase). Of course, she did not condone shooting, just a mothers insight into her sons state of mind.

I’m not defending his actions due to back pain, absolutely not! Many people are disabled, frustrated sometimes, No excuse! Just saying defense may try this tactic.

 

[SaraSmile]

I would say that Brian Thompson's Civil Rights were violated far beyond LM's. If a mistake was made by LE, it should not negate the guilt of a highly planned and organized murder of an innocent 'figure head'.

It's obvious (to me) by the evidence that LM is guilty. He shot and killed an innocent man in cold blood as a political statement. I hope he sits in prison for the rest of his days, without access to the privilege and wealth he was so heavily afforded throughout his life.

MOO

Totally agree. Hopefully, Pennsylvania evidence ( back pack) will be allowed in, incredibly important!
I do believe the govt will bring a strong case, and Luigi is going down!
I think they say most Fed cases plea, I hope LWOP.

 

[LinasK]

Yes, his message with the shooting was directed to the entire health care system! Amazing he just looked up health care companies, and Brian Thompson fit his plan.

Re Back issues, mitigation, I think Karen I. ( defense) will try everything she can.
He obviously had a lot of metal in spine, previous surgeries. His back had gotten a lot worse, after a surf slip, about a year or so before the crime, physical activity had slowed down.

He did a No Show on one of his best friends weddings. He was out of touch with many regular contacts, including his Mother. Mom knew he was angry, resentful, mentioned to investigators the shooting seems like something Luigi would do! (paraphrase). Of course, she did not condone shooting, just a mothers insight into her sons state of mind.

I’m not defending his actions due to back pain, absolutely not! Many people are disabled, frustrated sometimes, No excuse! Just saying defense may try this tactic.

No valid reason to pick on United Healthcare, let alone Brian Thompson.