NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*

[mrC]

the 2 cases are only simlar in way that a lot of people jumping to conclusions that arnt really be the facts and both have more or less been declared guilty before they had any sort of due process

 

[girlhasnoname]

This killing had nothing to do with opinions though? People love him (mostly in a performative way IMO) because they hate health insurance companies (and the people who run them).

Agree, but Brian Thompson was just one the figural 'heads' of the perceived snake. No different, IMO, than Aetna, Cigna, BCBS CEO's. They have all become 'for profit' verses the best practices for patient care IMO.

It's the HealthCare Industry as a whole that needs correction, there will always be a warm body to fill a vacant seat. One person does not make the decisions in a vacuum, it's the collective Executive Management group and operating practices of the Company.

JMO

 

[Dpdan]

It isn't just about whether it is or isn't the definition of terrorism, it's also about what they think they can get a conviction for. Proving terrorism is something that could divide a jury, whereas common or garden murder is more likely to result in a conviction and would result in the same penalty. It's strategic, they don't need to pile on the charges, just pick the ones which are most likely to result in conviction. Murder trials are sadly ten a penny but thankfully terrorism is a less well trodden path.

 

[Inthedetails]

It isn't just about whether it is or isn't the definition of terrorism, it's also about what they think they can get a conviction for. Proving terrorism is something that could divide a jury, whereas common or garden murder is more likely to result in a conviction and would result in the same penalty. It's strategic, they don't need to pile on the charges, just pick the ones which are most likely to result in conviction. Murder trials are sadly ten a penny but thankfully terrorism is a less well trodden path.

Right, but in this case, it wasn't the prosecution who decided not to pursue terrorism, but the judge who dismissed the charges because the evidence didn't fit the legal requirements for terrorism charge. The prosecution wanted to proceed and I'm assuming were confident they could convince a jury. But the judge dismissed.


jmopinion

 

[girlhasnoname]

Right, but in this case, it wasn't the prosecution who decided not to pursue terrorism, but the judge who dismissed the charges because the evidence didn't fit the legal requirements for terrorism charge. The prosecution wanted to proceed and I'm assuming were confident they could convince a jury. But the judge dismissed.


jmopinion

Right, but the Feds still have the charge and DP in play.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

would like the option of the DP. His level of pre planning and executing this crime is particularly cold and callous.

I agree, this was a cold and callous murder. Death penalty will be particularly controversial for this case, though, IMO.

 

[Betty P]

RSBM

The judge's opinion and ruling can be challenged through the U.S. Supreme Court. But apparently Bragg's office is accepting the ruling. Reading the ruling is interesting, there are some gray areas in the judge's interpretation. IMO.

I looked up the state of New York's definition of terrorism

Under our law, a person is guilty of a Crime of Terrorism
when, with intent to intimidate or coerce a civilian population,
influence the policy of a unit of government by intimidation or
coercion, or affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder,
assassination, or kidnapping, he or she commits a specified
offense.

So murder w/ the terrorism specification would have to consist of a murder that was committed with the intent to

intimidate or coerce a civilian population

Influence policy of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion or

Affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination, or kidnapping

I think the prosecution would have a hard time convincing a jury that the accused intended to intimidate a civilian population. That might require some further evidence, like writing or speaking that intent in social media or a mainfesto, etc.

 

[NuttMegg]

I looked up the state of New York's definition of terrorism



So murder w/ the terrorism specification would have to consist of a murder that was committed with the intent to

intimidate or coerce a civilian population

Influence policy of a unit of government by intimidation or coercion or

Affect the conduct of a unit of government by murder, assassination, or kidnapping

I think the prosecution would have a hard time convincing a jury that the accused intended to intimidate a civilian population. That might require some further evidence, like writing or speaking that intent in social media or a mainfesto, etc.

Look what's happening in D.C. Grand juries have refused to go along with the prosecutor on felony charges against, for example, a guy who threw a sandwich at a cop.

Over reach just causes the pendulum to swing back. LM may have unwittingly chosen the best time (for him) in recent history to commit murder. Factor in the many elderly and their younger caretakers, who are not enamored with LM but will certainly weigh being part of a hung jury as a result of their treatment by the health care middlemen
ImO

The Grand Jury Strikes Back

 

[girlhasnoname]

Look what's happening in D.C. Grand juries have refused to go along with the prosecutor on felony charges against, for example, a guy who threw a sandwich at a cop.

Over reach just causes the pendulum to swing back. LM may have unwittingly chosen the best time (for him) in recent history to commit murder. Factor in the many elderly and their younger caretakers, who are not enamored with LM but will certainly weigh being part of a hung jury as a result of their treatment by the health care middlemen
ImO

The Grand Jury Strikes Back

It is a chaotic time in our country right now I agree.

LM's highest 'approval rating' comes from those in the 20's to early 30's group, Gen Z-ers, second to the Boomers @ 65+. I just read that recently, but can't put my finger on it so I'll qualify that by saying...

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It isn't just about whether it is or isn't the definition of terrorism, it's also about what they think they can get a conviction for. Proving terrorism is something that could divide a jury, whereas common or garden murder is more likely to result in a conviction and would result in the same penalty. It's strategic, they don't need to pile on the charges, just pick the ones which are most likely to result in conviction. Murder trials are sadly ten a penny but thankfully terrorism is a less well trodden path.

I always think of the Caylee Anthony case when I think of the Prosecution overreaching. We see how that turned out.

 

[Arkay]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

There’s always a possibility that a jury can acquit, but I don’t expect it. There is a plentiful amount of direct evidence against him, including his own manifesto.

Hopefully the voir dire process as well as peremptory challenges will keep his mindless fans off the jury.

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I would certainly hope to have him deep into his prison term by the time he turns 35.

JMO

 

[NuttMegg]

It is a chaotic time in our country right now I agree.

LM's highest 'approval rating' comes from those in the 20's to early 30's group, Gen Z-ers, second to the Boomers @ 65+. I just read that recently, but can't put my finger on it so I'll qualify that by saying...

JMO

We posted those data on this thread, but much closer to the date of the event. I'm really surprised, on the sites I follow, and on X, the older people of all political stripes that mention his name favorably now. There seems to be little polarization. I said earlier, here, that as a juror I wouldn't vote to convict him of terrorism. The judge was wise.

Does anyone know that if the feds carry through with the terrorism/dp charge, is that a jury trial?

 

[stanerd]

From the hearing yesterday, it looks like the NY judge wants the state trial to happen first, but didn't KFA make a request at the last federal hearing for the federal trial to happen first? So can the feds override the NY judge and refuse to allow the NY trial to happen first if they desire similar to how they are refusing to allow LM to attend hearings in PA? Also, if the NY case indeed does go to trial first and LM is sentenced, would he serve his sentence in a NY state prison and then serve a federal sentence afterwards?

This is the first time I've followed a case pre-trial prosecuted by both a state and the feds, so this is all kind of confusing.

 

[mrC]

the police haven't posted the actull manifesto just what they cliam is in it

 

[girlhasnoname]

the police haven't posted the actull manifesto just what they cliam is in it

Respectfully, not true.

It was published on several media platforms after he was first arrested and charged. These are some of the key points in his 'writings' that may help support the act of terrorism charge as defined by NY Law and posted by @Betty P previously on this thread. Will it be enough? IDK

<snipped>

"Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. A reminder: the US has the #1 most expensive healthcare system in the world, yet we rank roughly #42 in life expectancy.

"United is the [indecipherable] largest company in the US by market cap, behind only Apple, Google, Walmart. It has grown and grown, but [h]as our life expectancy?

"No the reality is, these [indecipherable] have simply gotten too powerful, and they continue to abuse our country for immense profit because the American public has allowed them to get away with it.

Luigi Mangione manifesto: Read reported document in full

JMO

 

[mrC]

the manisto if really written by him wich has yet to be proved just shows he dident like the healthcare industry not licking the health care industry is a majority veiw it proves abslutly nothing other than the fact her held the same opinion as the majority of the populiation

 

[girlhasnoname]

the manisto if really written by him wich has yet to be proved just shows he dident like the healthcare industry not licking the health care industry is a majority veiw it proves abslutly nothing other than the fact her held the same opinion as the majority of the populiation

While a person may not agree with the policies and procedures of the Healthcare Industry (I don't myself) it still DOES NOT give me or anyone else the right to plan, stalk and murder an employee of one the major Insurance Companies. It really is that simple.

JMO

 

[mrC]

i think you have missed the point of what i said the manfisto is just someone writing they dont like somone writing that they dident like is not proof that they killed anybody its not evdence

 

[Mihajlo]

LM having the gun on him when he was arrested will do more heavy lifting against him than the manifesto.

I want to know why he kept it. Did he plan on using it on another victim, did it help him relive the thrill the murder gave him, or both???

 

[arielilane]

Three rows of supporters for Mangione were present at the hearing.

Luigi Mangione: Judge tosses 2 state murder charges related to act of terrorism

Luigi Mangione, the accused killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, returned to a Manhattan courtroom on Tuesday for the first time in five months.

www.goodmorningamerica.com

Sept 16