NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #8 *Arrest*

[mrstfs]

Just thinking about some of the unanswered questions we have right now:

What's the deal with that cellphone they found near the scene?

What exactly happened in those months following back surgery, when he went off the grid and no one could find him?
What exactly was his mental state during this time?
Where was he staying during this period?

Where has he been living in general?

What was he doing in Pennsylvania in the days following his escape from New York?
Where was he staying during this period?

Why wasn't he concerned about DNA (backpack, water bottle, phone, etc)?

What was his endgame here (suicide, follow-up attacks, etc)?

Re: what was he doing in PA, I picture him riding a bus back and forth between Philly and Pittsburgh because of this statement. (Altoona is 100 miles east of Pittsburgh). MOO

“Police said Tuesday it appears Mangione went to Pittsburgh and then Altoona after leaving New York and that he was dodging surveillance using a signal-blocking bag.”

What we know about Luigi Mangione, suspect charged in UnitedHealthcare CEO's killing

Luigi Mangione is charged with murder in the deadly shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Kapua]

Thinking it thru, if he doesn’t “take the stand” then there will not be much detail about his views. The prosecution will be he was here, there, dna and shot & killed.

If he does take the stand, then questioning him about his motive isn’t very productive because under the law, it’s still murder. There no threat, etc.
Think of the questions might be posed to elicit sympathy and a not guilty. There’s no logic. Jury needs a story - I killed him because Medical Insurance denies claims and people suffer?

Will jurors say, hell My claim was denied ! Let this killer go free.

No lawyer would advise this client to take the stand, IMHO, but it's LM's prerogative to decide. He should let his attorney plead his case; that's his area of expertise. The evidence against him is strong; they have him on video shooting BT, a video trail of where he went afterward, the pic in the taxi. They have DNA, the murder weapon, honestly, I don't think I've ever followed a case with this much direct evidence. So IMHO, I don't see any jury voting to acquit. The jury is directed to look only at the evidence presented in the courtroom. If any person cannot do that, they should not be selected to serve. MOO

 

[Sundog]

Spondylolisthesis is often seen in younger people that do exercise that flexes the lower back repeatedly, like gymnasts. Sometimes there’s a weaker part of the back part of the vertebral arch - a birth abnormality - that may break, that causes slippage.

Exactly this. And it’s true for many other surgeries and tests too. Healthcare costs are many many multiples in the US, but outcomes are poorer and mortality rates higher. It’s not just because people aren’t getting the care they need, it’s often because they get care they don’t need. The opiod epidemic is a uniquely American problem. We simply don’t use painkillers in the same way in European practice. We do far fewer ENT surgeries, far fewer cardiac stent operations, fewer MRI scans and PET scans and use simpler medications as a rule. Everyone has access to the same healthcare, taxpayer funded, cradle to grave.

I wouldn't say that everyone in Canada, for example, has access to the same healthcare, or the same quality of health care. It depends where you live, to some extent. If high end medical equipment is really expensive, then it might be limited in your region of the country. You may have to wait a long time for access to limited resources such as equipment which is often rationed. A member of my family, for example, had to wait for almost a year for access to the one lithotripter (shock wave machine to break up kidney stones) in her province. Hard to believe, but other family members have also gone through harrowing ordeals with the Canadian health care system, although some have done quite well with it. So it isn't the same for everyone, lots of factors at play.

 

[Deleted member 350315]

the parallel I see is that EH claimed she was bringing a new modern testing protocol to revolutionize medicine (though she wasn't) and SBF was investing and creating wealth (but he wasn't) and LM is trying to change health care for the better (but he just murdered one guy) so they all have these lofty goals with no real way to achieve them- quixotic really.

No. The only "lofty goals" that EH and SBF had was seeing their own bank balances rise. Yes, "EH claimed she was bringing a new modern testing protocol to revolutionize medicine (though she wasn't)," and she knew she wasn't. Those tests were flawed and she was blatantly lying about it, potentially endangering who knows how many people. And that blatant lying included that fake accent she adopted when it suited her, to help further her scheme. As for SBF, he only claimed to be investing and creating wealth -and he knew that he wasn't- while he was only creating wealth for himself while essentially stealing from others. As malevolent and misguided as Luigi Mangione may have been, those two wealth-obsessed slimeballs are just not in the same league as him.

 

[Jamie737]

I wouldn't say that everyone in Canada, for example, has access to the same healthcare, or the same quality of health care. It depends where you live, to some extent. If high end medical equipment is really expensive, then it might be limited in your region of the country. You may have to wait a long time for access to limited resources such as equipment which is often rationed. A member of my family, for example, had to wait for almost a year for access to the one lithotripter (shock wave machine to break up kidney stones) in her province. Hard to believe, but other family members have also gone through harrowing ordeals with the Canadian health care system, although some have done quite well with it. So it isn't the same for everyone, lots of factors at play.

True, but still more immediate access to perhaps a more invasive form of stone removal?

 

[tsereteli]

DBM

 

[KooshBall]

Re: what was he doing in PA, I picture him riding a bus back and forth between Philly and Pittsburgh because of this statement. (Altoona is 100 miles east of Pittsburgh). MOO

“Police said Tuesday it appears Mangione went to Pittsburgh and then Altoona after leaving New York and that he was dodging surveillance using a signal-blocking bag.”

What we know about Luigi Mangione, suspect charged in UnitedHealthcare CEO's killing

Luigi Mangione is charged with murder in the deadly shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

www.cbsnews.com

I don't understand the dodging surveillance with the bag part. If LE had no idea who the shooter was, they couldn't have been surveiling him, so what was he blocking with the bag, exactly?

 

[FoxxTraxx]

Just thinking about some of the unanswered questions we have right now:

What's the deal with that cellphone they found near the scene?

What exactly happened in those months following back surgery, when he went off the grid and no one could find him?
What exactly was his mental state during this time?
Where was he staying during this period?

Where has he been living in general?

What was he doing in Pennsylvania in the days following his escape from New York?
Where was he staying during this period?

Why wasn't he concerned about DNA (backpack, water bottle, phone, etc)?

What was his endgame here (suicide, follow-up attacks, etc)?

The photos of LM when he arrived at the hostel in New York City showed someone (IMO) who was not disheveled, tired, or malnourished. He was well rested and had plenty of energy to scout out the various sites. I wouldn't be surprised if he was in Philadelphia staying with someone he knows from his Univ. of PA days, and they have not (yet) come forward.

 

[thefragile7393]

True, but still more immediate access to perhaps a more invasive form of stone removal?

Not necessarily

 

[thefragile7393]

I wouldn't say that everyone in Canada, for example, has access to the same healthcare, or the same quality of health care. It depends where you live, to some extent. If high end medical equipment is really expensive, then it might be limited in your region of the country. You may have to wait a long time for access to limited resources such as equipment which is often rationed. A member of my family, for example, had to wait for almost a year for access to the one lithotripter (shock wave machine to break up kidney stones) in her province. Hard to believe, but other family members have also gone through harrowing ordeals with the Canadian health care system, although some have done quite well with it. So it isn't the same for everyone, lots of factors at play.

And waiting lists for private doctors can be a nightmare, even needing urgent care

 

[Sundog]

True, but still more immediate access to perhaps a more invasive form of stone removal?

It wasn't an option.

 

[gitana1]

Agree. Gotta be careful. Now imagine you are 13, 16, or 26 AND you have to discern what is real or not. The disinformation is terrifying.

Or elderly!

 

[Trino]

It may be that he brought currency back from his trip to Japan & has carried it with him for these last few months. He seems to have lived for a long time with very little except what fit in a backpack. He may have traded in & out of a very sparce wardrobe as his needs changed. Its fairly common for young nomads to live like this. Some even use "couch surfing" websites for sleep accommodations. I once met a lovely fairly well known artist being hosted like this who had lived like this for 2 years when I met her & she had traveled the world.

Have a second cousin that has done this for 5 years. He's good at it too. Minimum help - if asked - around a house in return for a place to sleep. Got caught up in his surfing for 7 weeks. Polite about everything, even leaving when I said no more.

 

[gitana1]

Following my previous post about the Pathway to Violence, if you read through this list of risk factors and stressors, and how a person develops a grievance, begins having violent ideation, then moves to researching and planning (also from the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) Department of Psychiatry), you will see that LM is not unique or special.

His case matches identically to this well-known path. I think its helpful to look at this case through this lens because while he may have had wealth and an excellent education, clearly those are not enough to prevent someone from embarking on this sequence of behaviors.

He clearly had some stressors in his life, and sadly he reacted to them in a predictable fashion. Predictable in the sense that lots of research has been done on it. Not predictable to the people who knew him prior to this.

Its very unfortunate that his family/friends were not able to connect with him while he was at an earlier stage of the path. Not a criticism of them in any way, as how would anyone predict that someone they knew could/would change in such a way? If nothing else, this case is a reminder that we all need to become educated about this so that we might be able to notice the red flags before someone is too far down the path to be stopped.

Ooh! Thanks for that. I’ve been looking for anything that could explain his behavior. Btw, are you aware of what type of mental conditions if any, might precipitate such a pathway?

 

[Trino]

True, but still more immediate access to perhaps a more invasive form of stone removal?

My husband is Canadian, has numerous relatives in larger cities. No complaints about care. Before his passing, my Canadian father-in-law was confined to a nursing home - completely paid for. Wouldn't happen in the U.S.

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

I don't understand the dodging surveillance with the bag part. If LE had no idea who the shooter was, they couldn't have been surveiling him, so what was he blocking with the bag, exactly?

At the time, he could have thought that someone, perhaps friends or family, had recognized him from the NYC photos and turned his name over to the NYPD. With Mayor Adam’s ill worded press statement, I was not sure if they did or did not have him identified. Perhaps he thought they were tracking his cell and knew who he was.

 

[ItalyReader]

Yes. As a tangent that I can’t stop thinking about, the photos of him unmasked at the hostel and unmasked at McDonald’s just don’t seem to be the same person as the post-arrest photos.

I’m not saying the police made a mistake, I’m sure it’s the same person but the faces seem really different. Like was he wearing a nose prosthesis, etc?

I can’t get past this. I’m sure it is the same person but the visuals are so different, especially the nose.

Maybe it’s the hood/hair that’s throwing me off.

Did anyone else have this impression?

Edited to add link of example photos

New images show Luigi Mangione eating at McDonald's befor...

Police released photos of Luigi Mangione, 26, at the Pennsylvania McDonald's where he was taken into custody.

www.newsweek.com

 

[MassGuy]

Yes. As a tangent that I can’t stop thinking about, the photos of him unmasked at the hostel and unmasked at McDonald’s just don’t seem to be the same person as the post-arrest photos.

I’m not saying the police made a mistake, I’m sure it’s the same person but the faces seem really different. Like was he wearing a nose prosthesis, etc?

I can’t get past this. I’m sure it is the same person but the visuals are so different, especially the nose.

Maybe it’s the hood/hair that’s throwing me off.

Did anyone else have this impression?

Edited to add link of example photos

New images show Luigi Mangione eating at McDonald's befor...

Police released photos of Luigi Mangione, 26, at the Pennsylvania McDonald's where he was taken into custody.

www.newsweek.com

Angle and lighting always make people look different. When I saw the hostel picture, the eyebrows and nose stood out to me the most. I thought he had a pretty big nose, and the mugshots show that he does. I can't really see it in the Mcdonalds photo though.

Regardless, that woman in Mcdonalds looked at the guy in front of her, compared it to what she had seen in that hotel image, and came to the conclusion it was him.

And nailed it.

 

[KooshBall]

Yes. As a tangent that I can’t stop thinking about, the photos of him unmasked at the hostel and unmasked at McDonald’s just don’t seem to be the same person as the post-arrest photos.

I’m not saying the police made a mistake, I’m sure it’s the same person but the faces seem really different. Like was he wearing a nose prosthesis, etc?

I can’t get past this. I’m sure it is the same person but the visuals are so different, especially the nose.

Maybe it’s the hood/hair that’s throwing me off.

Did anyone else have this impression?

Edited to add link of example photos

New images show Luigi Mangione eating at McDonald's befor...

Police released photos of Luigi Mangione, 26, at the Pennsylvania McDonald's where he was taken into custody.

www.newsweek.com

I think it is normal to look different in photos because of the difference in lighting, the angle of your face, the quality of the equipment taking the photos. I look different in every photo of myself! I also have a small button nose from the front but my profile shows what I call a Bob Hope nose. I'm jealous of all you that seem to look the same in every photo because that has never been me lol

 

[ttjo]

And waiting lists for private doctors can be a nightmare, even needing urgent care

true, I know people who have travelled to the US to pay for testing b/c the wait here was too long, the other went for a more specialized treatment, both had money b/c it wasnt cheap.