NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #8 *Arrest*

[Marantz4250b]

I'm not really seeing a definite connection to his back surgery and negligence or failing to pay or anything. Young guy with a pre-existing condition goes surfing, gets badly injured due in part to said condition so decides to shoot insurance company CEO. Makes no sense. What suggestion is there that the insurers actions made anything worse?

If you have known spinal problems then perhaps...you know...don't go surfing?

 

[Miss Poovy]

Thanks Seattle1,

Everybody's been so great on websleuths. Because of folks like you, some of us who can't get beyond paywalls are able to read and access all the news stories.

That 'ghost gun' certainly threw me., esp. the whole discussion around a 3d printed frame/receiver today.

I don't know a lot about weapons. But experts here on WS were saying that a 3d printer can make some components of a handgun? That was news to me.

So, looking it up, I estimate, 3d printers for individual home-use are up to $1000.

3d printers for engineering labs cost $5,000 -20,000. Huh? Resulting in a product that is plastic? Or, steel? Could they make the barrel of a gun? Wouldn't that HAVE TO BE MADE OF STEEL? (because of all the pressure and heat that occurs with firing a weapon...yada yada yada.)

So, how did LM make the various parts to his gun? Most likely NOT in his apartment on a personal $750 3d printer.

Right?

so WHERE WAS LM MAKING HIS HANDGUN(s), and/or their components?

WHOSE 3d printer was he using, and was that WHEN LM disappeared for months on end?

Where was LM firing at stuff during "target practice", learning how to use his handgun, and testing the components he made to make sure they worked?

Because Engineering Labs, and Research labs (which have high end $100,000 3d printers) would be at an University.

U of Penn? Stanford? Where else did LM go?

Any thoughts from other Sleuthers on the technical aspects of making one's own 'ghost gun'????

How easy ...is that to do using a 3d printer to make some parts and ordering the other parts online?



(MOO, coming from someone who knows next to nothing about the topic above. And coming from someone who would prefer LESS firearms in the USA, rather than a LOT MORE. )

Many cities have cooperative maker studios with equipment. Artists also use sanding belts, glow forges, 3-D printers, various tools etc. Artist pay a monthly fee to participate along with teaching new artists to use equipment & keeping the studio clean. Many well-funded libraries have expensive 3-D printers, though I doubt he made one at the library.

 

[Jamara3]

Do we know how the NYPD was able to locate his hostel so quickly?

It's incredibly impressive how quickly they managed to analyze a very high amount of camera footage and zero-in on the hostel, which is what allowed them to obtain the flirting picture that ultimately led to his capture. Would have been like finding a needle in a hay stack manually.

Given the herculean task of reviewing this much footage manually, do you suspect that AI was used? They might be able to input a picture (from the immediate crime scene) and have the system automatically scan all cameras over a certain period to recreate a suspect's movements?

My suspicion is that they worked backwards, manually from the morning of the shooting. There’s no shortage of cameras and I bet they just followed him and traced back to where started from that morning. They probably found the hostel pretty quickly, than spoke to the employee and acquired their surveillance footage to eventually find the “money shot.” He must have been really diligent about masking. To be going in and out for ten days, and likely eating in the common areas, for that one image to be the best they could find.

They do use AI facial recognition software, but IMO I don’t think it was able to be used in the case in the way it’s intended because they never had a clear shot of his defining features. Even the hostel photo wouldn’t be enough to feed a clean profile, nor the taxi photo. They needed the public’s human eye to deduce conclusions from both images. I would bet they were also seeking AI recognition matches for white male individuals wearing hoods and masks and the backpack, but would need personnel to manually parse through hundreds of images since that would result in a ton of matches.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Did he ask for pity? He seems pretty confident in his actions as some sort of psuedo-revolutionary.

Valid

 

[bestill]

Did he ask for pity? He seems pretty confident in his actions as some sort of psuedo-revolutionary.

Seriously. If it were about his personal injury and pain he could have committed suicide and ended that. Not advocating for that by any means, just an observation.

 

[ttjo]

As far as we know, he didn't try other methods of communication. He certainly didn't try to raise support for his cause, from what we know.

In my opinion, he's not guilty of anything as it stands today.

I think it's an accumulation of things, his back pain and angry about the things he cant do, I don't know about his health care or if he was ever denied. Then add in insider trading, then a lawsuit leads to an investigation, and then the stock was allegedly dumped before the public was aware of an investigation ( before stocks dropped) and those involved allegedly made money, but their shareholders lost. That's like adding insult to injury. (its all In the article I posted above)
I'm not defending, just trying to see what could have set him off. I'm in Canada we don't have these problems

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Do we know how the NYPD was able to locate his hostel so quickly?

It's incredibly impressive how quickly they managed to analyze a very high amount of camera footage and zero-in on the hostel, which is what allowed them to obtain the flirting picture that ultimately led to his capture. Would have been like finding a needle in a hay stack manually.

Given the herculean task of reviewing this much footage manually, do you suspect that AI was used? They might be able to input a picture (from the immediate crime scene) and have the system automatically scan all cameras over a certain period to recreate a suspect's movements?

All the articles that came out last Thursday and Friday kept referencing "the most significant clue".
I really feel I saw it referenced as "a tip". And I think that photo that the hostel receptionist had was the start of everything else coming together.

"They were having a flirtatious moment and he pulls it down and he gives a big smile and that one informal moment between two human beings remains at this moment the most significant clue to date in this whole case," former NYPD Deputy Commissioner for Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller said.

NYC hostel at center of UnitedHealthcare CEO shooting investigation: "The most significant clue to date"

An NYC hostel is now the focal point of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson's murder investigation, as police search for a person of interest.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Mica]

Do we know how the NYPD was able to locate his hostel so quickly?

It's incredibly impressive how quickly they managed to analyze a very high amount of camera footage and zero-in on the hostel, which is what allowed them to obtain the flirting picture that ultimately led to his capture. Would have been like finding a needle in a hay stack manually.

Given the herculean task of reviewing this much footage manually, do you suspect that AI was used? They might be able to input a picture (from the immediate crime scene) and have the system automatically scan all cameras over a certain period to recreate a suspect's movements?

I’m thinking they found the hostel based on viewing security cameras of his movements.

 

[Furore]

I'm not really seeing a definite connection to his back surgery and negligence or failing to pay or anything. Young guy with a pre-existing condition goes surfing, gets badly injured due in part to said condition so decides to shoot insurance company CEO. Makes no sense. What suggestion is there that the insurers actions made anything worse?

If you have known spinal problems then perhaps...you know...don't go surfing?

There is obviously more to come out - it is somewhat easy to put together that a back injury seemed to play into a turning point in this guy’s future, and would have started an interest in healthcare. We actually have no idea whatsoever (positively or negatively) he had insurance troubles and they’re unlikely going to sing about that from UHCs side if it happened. It is clear he started experimenting with drugs for his pain, and this would have exposed him to some “different” ideas and different individuals many of whom could be slightly radical or off piste.

Many many people have back problems and you’re encouraged to exercise to strengthen muscles, some of the most injurious activities are things like sitting at a desk or in a car! All JMO

 

[justtrish]

Luigi Mangione 'was unable to have sex because of severe back injury'

RJ Martin said Mangione had told him the injury sustained following an accident had made dating impossible.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Brian Thompson shooting suspect Luigi Mangione suffered a back injury so severe he was unable to have sex, a former roommate said.

RJ Martin lived with the murder defendant for six months at a Hawaii co-living space and told The New York Times about 26 year-old Mangione's secret agony.

'He knew that dating and being physically intimate with his back condition wasn’t possible,' Mr Martin told The Times.

Explaining the injury that Mangione had suffered after a back condition called spondylolisthesis was worsened by a surfing accident Martin said: 'His spine was kind of misaligned.

'He said his lower vertebrae were almost like a half-inch off, and I think it pinched a nerve.'

Martin told CNN that Mangione, who he described as a bright engineer, suffered from debilitating pain throughout his six month stay at SurfBreak during 2022.

He said a single surf lesson left Mangione 'in bed for a week' afterwards, adding: 'It was really traumatic and difficult, you know, when you’re in your early twenties and you can’t, you know, do some basic things.'

If this was an ongoing condition he had, then I am curious why was he surfing? At some point people have to take personal accountability for their health problems. Surfing is dangerous even for those that are in 100% top health without any known conditions or issues that could be exasperated by a fall. Staying active can help with pain for sure, but I doubt that part of staying active recommendations would include getting in rough water and surfing. You need to stay active during activities that do not risk making your issue worse.

With his resources he could have tried so many things to help with his pain that wouldn't involve insurance companies.

Did he blame the insurance company for his condition? Did he blame them for his surgery that maybe he felt didn't work? Did he want more surgery or someething they didn't cover? I can understand frusteration that some treatment he wanted wasn't covered. The insurance company didn't injure him though.

Also he seems to travel a lot. A flight to Japan is not a short one and I can't imagine he'd have access to any US health care in Japan so how long was he there and was he staying in a hostel there also? What kind of bed would that be that he slept on? Someone in chronic pain likely would feel their best by sleeping on a good quality mattress every night, getting plenty of rest, eating well, and maybe chiropractic care, massages, cryotherapy, heat therapy, doing exercises to strengthen muscles to help with posture and so on.. he didn't need a physical therapist for that and he seems to know his way around a gym so nothing was stopping him from taking his health into his own hands for these things he could control.

I had hip surgery 5 years ago. Before that I was in a lot of pain. I was very fit before this. I had to jump through many hoops to get to the root cause of what was going on. It was frustrating for sure. I finally had surgery and the recovery was had. 6 months of PT AND exercises at home, listening to what the doctors told me to limit and how to slowly recover.. not jump back into all the things.. that would risk the surgery failing and/or me reinjuring myself. Doctors can only do so much and sometimes it's up to us to do the work. Eat well, sleep enough, drink water, do the exercises, take the warnings seriously about what activities we can and can't do. I am just offering a different point of view that even with a successful surgery, it takes the patient doing their part too for things to go as well as they can. Seems he lived a life of adventure and maybe he didn't do his part.

 

[Joe Friday]

I could, maybe, understand why they didn't 'recognize' him.

You think your relative is in, say, South Carolina living his own life and then you see this picture come out of someone who looks an awful lot like your relative who committed a murder in New York.
But, your relative is in South Carolina and your relative would NEVER commit a murder let alone a murder that has drawn national attention.
It has to be a look alike - everyone has a doppelganger they say.
So you convince yourself that the murderer could not have been your relative.

JMO.

Denial might work until all your other relatives start calling and questioning the fact that the picture of the murder suspect looks like "our" Luigi, then they would all start to second guess the situation. It's not like he didn't have any family that were not living under a rock and see the media coverage.

JMO

 

[fridaybaker]

Any thoughts on why he's charged with second degree murder? He clearly planned the assassination of Brian Thompson. JMO

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-death-investigation-12-9-24/index.html

I haven't lived in NY for a few years, but back then, 1st degree was reserved for murder of LE, etc.

 

[FoxxTraxx]

I assume LM will need a lawyer rather quickly. And a good one! How does one arrange legal representation when locked up in jail? His family can almost certainly help, but it appears they are estranged from LM.

 

[Furore]

With respect to family recognising or not, to be honest it sounds like up til the summer/back surgery he sounded like a nice, well thought of guy and had been extremely successful and “mainstream” - sounds like his family hadn’t seen him much recently or seen up close a descent into radicalisation - if someone put a masked picture of my husband up for example, someone I would never ever ever predict to kill someone, I just don’t think I would think it either?!

 

[ClearAhead]

Pure speculation - lost money on his trust fund with UH investment as result of alleged insider trading. He was self directing his fund’s investment.
A more linear connection.

No I don’t think that has any connection. The share price drop in 2021 was just a short term blip. Since that time it’s rebounded by about 300%.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/UNH/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAwK1a4JXmp9OSchOAs-GEGWTUVAVT3GRo8umWrK2Dq6G5YezCD9MJbvWQnrGQAizpxU31hE0_Pgq0sTzLgk_9yTlAoenvJMob1JiLn9DhUqtkWGtSJIZYAUQhejsD9sNgv23OJtKxFWrHOLT4XrU_nnEk8cOGJMXrKxQgGhYKoM

 

[fridaybaker]

This is a big question for me as well....
The one picture--the supposed flirting smiling picture--- was SOOO clear.

I'm not sure about this. Many people thought it was a woman in that photo. Also, there is probably a very stong instinct to not recognize your own in a photograph like that. Apparently, the murder charges came out of the blue for them and everyone else in his circle. Maybe she thought "that guy looks a little like Luigi". The fact that it WAS Luigi wouldn't have entered her mind. Don't know.

 

[Sunshynn]

If this was an ongoing condition he had, then I am curious why was he surfing? At some point people have to take personal accountability for their health problems. Surfing is dangerous even for those that are in 100% top health without any known conditions or issues that could be exasperated by a fall. Staying active can help with pain for sure, but I doubt that part of staying active recommendations would include getting in rough water and surfing. You need to stay active during activities that do not risk making your issue worse.

JMO - but he's a kid, basically.
Early to late 20's and probably thought he could push through the pain to keep up with friends.
I imagine it would make him feel horrible to be sidelined at such an early age while his friends of his own age are out doing all these activities.
At that age, you often think you know yourself better than anyone - even medical doctors.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I haven't lived in NY for a few years, but back then, 1st degree was reserved for murder of LE, etc.

I find that odd. I've always been of the impression that degree was denoted by intent. In a very basic understanding - did I kill you during an argument or accident that got out of hand, that's 2nd degree. Did I learn your work schedule and shoot you as you walked to your car, that's 1st degree.

 

[sds71]

An internal New York Police Department report obtained by The Times walks through parts of the three-page manifesto Mangione had at the time of his arrest and the potential for others to see him as “a martyr and an example to follow.”

Mangione “appeared to view the targeted killing of the company’s highest-ranking representative as a symbolic takedown and a direct challenge to its alleged corruption and ‘power games,’ asserting in his note he is the ’first to face it with such brutal honesty,’” according to the intelligence analysis report drawn up by the Police Department’s Intelligence and Counterterrorism Bureau.

Police officials also expressed concern that he might be inspiring others. “Based on observed initial online reactions to the shooting, including celebrations of the killing of a health insurance executive, there is a risk that a wide range of extremists may view Mangione as a martyr and an example to follow,” the internal report said.

Suspect in C.E.O.’s Killing Fights Extradition to New York

The 26-year-old suspect was charged with murder in New York after being arrested at a McDonald’s in Altoona, Pa. He appeared in court in Pennsylvania on Tuesday afternoon.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Deleted member 272036]

There is no justification for what this murderer did.

But there are a lot of comments here and elsewhere, questioning whether he "couldn't just live with his spinal."

Until you go through something, you never know. I had a series of procedures cause irreversible damage to my body. It was traumatic, but the psychological aspects have been worse. I wanted to die, and some days still do. Went from the top of my profession, smart guy with similar degrees, to clinical depression and suicide hotlines.

Thankfully, I don't want to hurt anybody else, but I can relate to the impact that a trauma can have on the mental health of an adult who otherwise seems ok from the outside.