NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #8 *Arrest*

[Interested Torontonian]

So, sifting through the media coverage - including (especially?) the wonderful efforts from ppl posting in this thread...

It seems like something happened with this guy in mid-November that caused alarm with his own family and was part of the spiral that led to him allegedly shooting Brian Thompson.

His mom reports him missing to the San Francisco Police Dept. on November 18: Luigi Mangione reported missing to SFPD weeks before shooting

The details surrounding this are still unknown but clearly she had a reason to do this.

We also know he's alleged to have arrived in NYC on November 24 (6 days later) on a bus that originated from Atlanta.

Man sought in UnitedHealthcare shooting may have traveled to NYC from Atlanta last month

As the manhunt continues, officials say the gunman who killed Brian Thompson, 50, may have traveled to New York City from Atlanta by bus last month.

www.nbcnews.com

The fact his Mom reported him missing from SF on Nov. 18 doesn't mean that's the day he actually disappeared. But there is clearly something going on in his life at this point that made his own mother believe he was in total crisis mode - and that crisis appears to have resulted in the alleged narrative that started up in NYC on Nov. 24.

 

[Interested Torontonian]

I'm not entirely sure he really expected to be caught. His shaking on being asked if hed been in NYC and the possible urination as a reflex to sheer fright & dread might, just might, be an indication that he really thought he could continue under radar. Has he ever had to suffer the consequences of his own actions? Has he *always* gotten every thing he ever wanted without earning it? Yes, he seems intelligent with a very active mind and is a deep thinker & feeler.
But did he also feel *entitled* to thrust his own adult temper tantrum-by-gun onto BT in the streets of NYC? Seems pretty entitled to me. We have lots more to discover about how he came to be here, a killer, despite a very privileged upbringing. The NC drunk driver bride murderer had a very privileged upbringing also & when lamenting how this could happen to HER, her father's answer was "bad things happen to good people" punkin sweetie pie (or some such hogwash). Then he assured her she would continue to have everything she could ever wish for in jail and plenty to share with her friends also. The enabling was heartbreaking. She was a product of atrocious enabling.

Was he really leading an 'affluenza' life - if anything he seemed adrift to what his background/education would predict - and his family appears to have been somehow trying to chase after him (his mother reported him missing from SF).

This family seems like a multi-season netflix effort...but it doesn't come off like a dump rich kid with dopey parental enablers.

 

[getthefax]

I'm not entirely sure he really expected to be caught. His shaking on being asked if hed been in NYC and the possible urination as a reflex to sheer fright & dread might, just might, be an indication that he really thought he could continue under radar. Has he ever had to suffer the consequences of his own actions? Has he *always* gotten every thing he ever wanted without earning it? Yes, he seems intelligent with a very active mind and is a deep thinker & feeler.
But did he also feel *entitled* to thrust his own adult temper tantrum-by-gun onto BT in the streets of NYC? Seems pretty entitled to me. We have lots more to discover about how he came to be here, a killer, despite a very privileged upbringing. The NC drunk driver bride murderer had a very privileged upbringing also & when lamenting how this could happen to HER, her father's answer was "bad things happen to good people" punkin sweetie pie (or some such hogwash). Then he assured her she would continue to have everything she could ever wish for in jail and plenty to share with her friends also. The enabling was heartbreaking. She was a product of atrocious enabling.

Yeah, I don’t really know. I’m sure there’s a psychological conversion in there somewhere, feeling entitled to not have suffered when he was injured… and having to live with life’s injustices, and taking them out in cold blood on a CEO and father of two boys…

I personally think being in possession of a manifesto is a pretty good sign some part of him wanted to be caught and jailed as a hero. He created a justification and he wrote it down.

Maybe the McDonald’s food hit him right at the moment of arrest?

Edited to add: I’m really struggling with this one because his murder was so planned out, yet it seems he also likely began so struggle with a derailment or mental instability of some kind. I make no excuses or apologies for what he did, though… Let justice be served. I’m glad he didn’t have a chance to shoot anyone else.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

I understand his friend in Hawaii has been discussing the back problems LM was having.
Pain, interference with intimacy and so on. We’ve all seen the back X-ray that may be of LM’s back.

Not saying it’s not true, but I wonder if he was still at this high pain level.

From what we see in NYC, he has this large backpack on his back, he’s bicycling all around, he’s traveling on buses and so on.When my back hurts I can’t do any of those things.

He’s young, I understand that—-but so far he’s been young all his life, and yet his back seems to have been a terrible problem. Enough that many posters have suggested he intentionally aimed at BT’s back.

So I’m wondering—-was he still in pain and that was his issue with health insurance, or was he much better yet still determined to carry out this murder?

JMO

On his LinkedIn, I saw an x-ray with pins in the lower back next to a photo of Luigi hiking and very fit (six pack). It looks like he may have been hiking in Hawaii. So, I would like to know if the hiking photo was before or after his operation (if that is his x-ray).

To me, he seemed really active in NYC, especially, for someone with severe back problems.

JMO.

 

[OneLove]

Also, people really are inconsistent, aren’t they…? Sticking it to the “greedy healthcare CEO”, while eating at one of the the least healthful restaurants on planet (and speaking of corporate $$$).

MOO, but jeez.

Well, to be fair, he had to eat somewhere and he may have felt there'd be fewer news watchers at McDonalds than Starbucks which is generally full of plugged in folks.

 

[MassGuy]

On his LinkedIn, I saw an x-ray with pins in the lower back next to a photo of Luigi hiking and very fit (six pack). It looks like he may have been hiking in Hawaii. So, I would like to know if the hiking photo was before or after his operation (if that is his x-ray).

To me, he seemed really active in NYC, especially, for someone with severe back problems.

JMO.

It would have been prior to the surgery, as he told his roommate that he was trying to get strong prior to it. He did seem to move well, riding bikes, running across the road, etc.

That surgery seems to be key here, as it was not long after that he dropped off the map.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

It would have been prior to the surgery, as he told his roommate that he was trying to get strong prior to it. He did seem to move well, riding bikes, running across the road, etc.

That surgery seems to be key here, as it was not long after that he dropped off the map.

The sad thing is if he thinks that he had back problems and pain before, he is in for a real nightmare in the days/weeks/months/years to come.

eta: Luigi is not an 18-year-old kid. His brain is fully developed, IMO, at 26 years of age. For all of his planning, he definitely didn't weigh the pros and cons of murder. He'll have plenty of time to realize the error in his decision. This kid can't be streetwise, IMO.

JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

Also, those fake reviews are hilarious. I hooted at “deny, depose, defend, diarrhea, McDonald’s”

Fortunately for them, it’s not like people check the reviews before going to McDonald’s.

It’s not like it’s an independent restaurant.

The only time I approve is when the business does something insane, like that auto body shop that paid a former employee his last paycheck in 90k plus oil covered pennies.

 

[airportwoman]

The sad thing is if he thinks that he had back problems and pain before, he is in for a real nightmare in the days/weeks/months/years to come.

eta: Luigi is not an 18-year-old kid. His brain is fully developed, IMO, at 26 years of age. For all of his planning, he definitely didn't weigh the pros and cons of murder. He'll have plenty of time to realize the error in his decision. This kid can't be streetwise, IMO.

JMO.

If Luigi had substance abuse issues, whether they were related to his (possible) back pain or not, his maturity would not have matched his age, because whatever age a person is when they become addicted to drugs, they stay that age emotionally until they clean up.

 

[DancingMuse]

Luigi Mangione disputes key details in PA court as New York charges filed

The UnitedHealthCare CEO slaying suspect was charged with murder by New York authorities on Monday night.

www.newsweek.com

12/9/24

Police in Altoona said that they discovered Mangione in possession of a "ghost gun," fake identification and a manifesto at the time of his arrest. Pennsylvania prosecutors reportedly said that the suspect was also carrying a large amount of cash and a "Faraday" backpack capable of blocking electronic signals.

During an arraignment in Pennsylvania on Monday night, Mangione spoke up to "correct" prosecutors by insisting that the money was not his and to dispute a description of his backpack as evidence of "criminal sophistication," according to CNN correspondent Danny Freeman.

"Prosecutors also highlighted about $10,000—$8,000 in U.S. dollars and then $2,000 in foreign currency that was found on his person," Freeman said during a broadcast. "Also they said that he had a Faraday bag... the prosecutor said that was an indication of criminal sophistication and reason they should hold him on bail."

"Mangione actually said at the end of that speech by the prosecution, 'I'd like to correct two things,'" he added. "'First, I don't know where any of that money came from, I'm not sure if it was planted. And also, that bag was waterproof, so I don't know about criminal sophistication.'"

Thanks Seattle1,

Everybody's been so great on websleuths. Because of folks like you, some of us who can't get beyond paywalls are able to read and access all the news stories.

That 'ghost gun' certainly threw me., esp. the whole discussion around a 3d printed frame/receiver today.

I don't know a lot about weapons. But experts here on WS were saying that a 3d printer can make some components of a handgun? That was news to me.

So, looking it up, I estimate, 3d printers for individual home-use are up to $1000.

3d printers for engineering labs cost $5,000 -20,000. Huh? Resulting in a product that is plastic? Or, steel? Could they make the barrel of a gun? Wouldn't that HAVE TO BE MADE OF STEEL? (because of all the pressure and heat that occurs with firing a weapon...yada yada yada.)

So, how did LM make the various parts to his gun? Most likely NOT in his apartment on a personal $750 3d printer.

Right?

so WHERE WAS LM MAKING HIS HANDGUN(s), and/or their components?

WHOSE 3d printer was he using, and was that WHEN LM disappeared for months on end?

Where was LM firing at stuff during "target practice", learning how to use his handgun, and testing the components he made to make sure they worked?

Because Engineering Labs, and Research labs (which have high end $100,000 3d printers) would be at an University.

U of Penn? Stanford? Where else did LM go?

Any thoughts from other Sleuthers on the technical aspects of making one's own 'ghost gun'????

How easy ...is that to do using a 3d printer to make some parts and ordering the other parts online?



(MOO, coming from someone who knows next to nothing about the topic above. And coming from someone who would prefer LESS firearms in the USA, rather than a LOT MORE. )

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks Seattle1,

Everybody's been so great on websleuths. Because of folks like you, some of us who can't get beyond paywalls are able to read and access all the news stories.

That 'ghost gun' certainly threw me., esp. the whole discussion around a 3d printed frame/receiver today.

I don't know a lot about weapons. But experts here on WS were saying that a 3d printer can make some components of a handgun? That was news to me.

So, looking it up, I estimate, 3d printers for individual home-use are up to $1000.

3d printers for engineering labs cost $5,000 -20,000. Huh? Resulting in a product that is plastic? Or, steel? Could they make the barrel of a gun? Wouldn't that HAVE TO BE MADE OF STEEL? (because of all the pressure and heat that occurs with firing a weapon...yada yada yada.)

So, how did LM make the various parts to his gun? Most likely NOT in his apartment on a personal $750 3d printer.

Right?

so WHERE WAS LM MAKING HIS HANDGUN(s), and/or their components?

WHOSE 3d printer was he using, and was that WHEN LM disappeared for months on end?

Where was LM firing at stuff during "target practice", learning how to use his handgun, and testing the components he made to make sure they worked?

Because Engineering Labs, and Research labs (which have high end $100,000 3d printers) would be at an University.

U of Penn? Stanford? Where else did LM go?

Any thoughts from other Sleuthers on the technical aspects of making one's own 'ghost gun'????

How easy ...is that to do using a 3d printer to make some parts and ordering the other parts online?



(MOO, coming from someone who knows next to nothing about the topic above. And coming from someone who would prefer LESS firearms in the USA, rather than a LOT MORE. )

I know they said it was 3D printed, but that does't mean he printed it himself. We likely won't know for sure until they search wherever he was living. I do tend to think he built it himself (minus the slide and other metal components). He just seems the type to do that (he'd enjoy it).

I just did a quick search online, and a printer capable of doing that isn't all that expensive (hundreds to a couple grand). Money seems to be little object to him, so he could have spent even more than that.

So he 3D prints the lower and the silencer, and buys the rest of the components online. Pennsylvania only recently strengthened their laws (which I still don't think mattered in regards to what he would have purchased).

You can download the files to make it online, and he'd have 0 issue with that.

He was really smooth with clearing the jams, not missing a beat. I'm confident that he practiced in the woods or something, and the jams happened there too. Hence the proficiency.

We don't have a clue where he was living, but that's where they'll be checking first I imagine.

 

[SlimPickens]

You know, when a 25-26 year old male becomes increasingly rigid rather than more nuanced in his beliefs, is increasingly belligerent towards "others", is suddenly nomadic and self-isolating when he used to be social and outgoing, is privy to "hidden" information and/or knowledge that no one else seems to "get", and he shows increasingly paranoid behaviors with apparent grandiose delusions, I typically suspect he's had a sudden break from reality. His reported highly anxious demeanor, his likely peeing his pants, and his erratic and irrational behaviors following the crime (i.e. holding onto all of the evidence), is also atypical. It makes me suspect he could have recent onset schizophrenia.

Not trying to look for something to excuse what he did - schizophrenia isn't a disqualifier from being prosecuted for murder as far as I know - but man he sure went downhill fast.

JMO.

 

[JDG]

Well, to be fair, he had to eat somewhere and he may have felt there'd be fewer news watchers at McDonalds than Starbucks which is generally full of plugged in folks.

He didn’t choose McDonalds, the bus stops there for food/toilet break.

 

[MassGuy]

You know, when a 25-26 year old male becomes increasingly rigid rather than more nuanced in his beliefs, is increasingly belligerent towards "others", is suddenly nomadic and self-isolating when he used to be social and outgoing, is privy to "hidden" information and/or knowledge that no one else seems to "get", and he shows increasingly paranoid behaviors with apparent grandiose delusions, I typically suspect he's had a sudden break from reality. His reported highly anxious demeanor, his likely peeing his pants, and his erratic and irrational behaviors following the crime (i.e. holding onto all of the evidence), is also atypical. It makes me suspect he could have recent onset schizophrenia.

Not trying to look for something to excuse what he did - schizophrenia isn't a disqualifier from being prosecuted for murder as far as I know - but man he sure went downhill fast.

JMO.

Something is going on there, but the issue with something like you suggest is how does that jibe with this meticulous, well planned, well executed crime?

If he was exhibiting something like that, I'd expect something much more ill conceived. He just walks up to him, fires a bunch of rounds, runs away, and is quickly apprehended.

I'm not an expert, but it just doesn't seem like a mental illness like that would present in this way (the way this crime was committed).

So I'm still completely confused, but I do think that side of it is definitely worth exploring.

 

[OneLove]

You know, when a 25-26 year old male becomes increasingly rigid rather than more nuanced in his beliefs, is increasingly belligerent towards "others", is suddenly nomadic and self-isolating when he used to be social and outgoing, is privy to "hidden" information and/or knowledge that no one else seems to "get", and he shows increasingly paranoid behaviors with apparent grandiose delusions, I typically suspect he's had a sudden break from reality. His reported highly anxious demeanor, his likely peeing his pants, and his erratic and irrational behaviors following the crime (i.e. holding onto all of the evidence), is also atypical. It makes me suspect he could have recent onset schizophrenia.

Not trying to look for something to excuse what he did - schizophrenia isn't a disqualifier from being prosecuted for murder as far as I know - but man he sure went downhill fast.

JMO.

Agreed. And his own references to medicating depression lead me to wonder if he'd taken an anti-depressant after his surgery and had recently quit, alarming his family. I feel deeply for them all. I'm really curious as to when his original back injury occured as it's location apparently made a "lack of intimacy" a huge factor in his young life while other folks around him were having a great time in that regard. If he worsened after the surgery, it's just tragic. I hope he can build a worthwhile life in prison. And no, taking BT's life was not an answer to his problem but he sure has brought a lot of attention to problems in our profit-motivated health care system. I would have been dead 10 years ago myself due to insurance denial if not for the surgeon who put his own job on the line for me after being totally enraged by the insurance company.

 

[darkstar105]

I think he chose McDonald's for the wifi.

 

[Interested Torontonian]

Not to beat a dead horse...

But mom is sufficiently panicked she's filing a missing report in San Fran on Nov 18. Luigi is showing up on a bus into NYC on Nov. 24.

To be clear - I'm entirely sure his family members did not think he would be alleged to go shoot a CEO on the street.

But i does appear that at least as of Nov 18, his immediate family was worried he was experiencing a personal crisis.

 

[Sundog]

I wonder what all the charges will be in New York State. I know that LM was charged with murder tonight, but don't known the exact charge and what some of the other charges might be. Also what the sentencing guidelines are for each of the NY state charges. I do think there might be federal charges as well, and that the feds will leave it up to the NY charges to go first and then later drop the federal charges if the NY charges are successfully prosecuted. I assume that lying in wait will add some additonal time to whatever sentence he is given, assuming that is the case in NY state.

I guess we will know soon, and the prosecution in NY may still be adding charges and only moved ahead at this time with the charges that they need to have him extradited to New York state. They said on the news that the extradition process can take up to 45 days, unless LM doesn't fight extradition. So that certainly gives LE more time to add additional charges as warranted as their investigation continues, and allows PA to continue to hold him in jail until the extradition process is complete.

 

[Interested Torontonian]

I wonder what all the charges will be in New York State. I know that LM was charged with murder tonight, but don't known the exact charge and what some of the other charges might be. Also what the sentencing guidelines are for each of the NY state charges. I do think there might be federal charges as well, and that the feds will leave it up to the NY charges to go first and then later drop the federal charges if the NY charges are successfully prosecuted. I assume that lying in wait will add some additonal time to whatever sentence he is given, assuming that is the case in NY state.

I guess we will know soon, and the prosecution in NY may still be adding charges and only moved ahead at this time with the charges that they need to have him extradited to New York state. They said on the news that the extradition process can take up to 45 days, unless LM doesn't fight extradition. So that certainly gives LE more time to add additional charges as warranted as their investigation continues, and allows PA to continue to hold him in jail until the extradition process is complete.

According to NYT he's been charged with second degree murder, three gun charges, and forgery:

Suspect in Health Care C.E.O.’s Killing Charged With Murder

The suspect, Luigi Mangione, 26, was charged by New York prosecutors. He was arrested and arraigned in Altoona, Pa., on Monday after being spotted at a McDonald’s.

www.nytimes.com

Maybe a US/NY lawyer can comment on the murder charge - and why he is currently charged with 2nd degree murder...and whether the murder charge might be upgraded if he's shown to have planned the crime.

 

[Friday Fan]

Agreed. And his own references to medicating depression lead me to wonder if he'd taken an anti-depressant after his surgery and had recently quit, alarming his family. I feel deeply for them all. I'm really curious as to when his original back injury occured as it's location apparently made a "lack of intimacy" a huge factor in his young life while other folks around him were having a great time in that regard. If he worsened after the surgery, it's just tragic. I hope he can build a worthwhile life in prison. And no, taking BT's life was not an answer to his problem but he sure has brought a lot of attention to problems in our profit-motivated health care system. I would have been dead 10 years ago myself due to insurance denial if not for the surgeon who put his own job on the line for me after being totally enraged by the insurance company.

We need more doctors like your doctor! Too many do not stick their necks out.
I can say more, but it would get off topic. But if we want better health insurance, a majority of the medical community needs to speak out publicly.