NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #9 *Arrest*

[CLGM]

Trying to catch up on posts from last night and this morning, but I wanted to put this out there. (sorry if other folks have already touched on it! There are so many thoughtful posts on here.)

@MassGuy in particular has talked about not having seen this before. I think the similarity with other shooters is that, at its base, this is another elaborate suicide. This shooter is extremely intelligent and has had all of the education, experiences, resources which comes with that and with the prestige and wealth of his family; so it looks different than what we've seen before. IMO, mental detioration/breakdown (like other shooters) is in play. Because of his intelligence, his background, his facility with navigating the world, he could hide what was going on inside of him which meant that his brain could take him further and further down a rabbit hole that he couldn't come out of. IMO, he's also very much a product of his generation who grew up with kids their age being shot and killed randomly in schools and nothing happening to address it. This generation (IMO) has a sense of being let down by adults with regard to so many issues, so there's a bit of ok, we'll just have to take care of this ourselves. (parent of 19 and 21 year olds, here) And this issue -- encounters with the medical care and insurance companies; being responsible for paying for and navigating the health insurance nightmare when turning 26 -- became personal to him; his own pain and his own mental health detioriation fiercely focused his brain on this course of action.

(to be clear, I don't think any of this excuses him from the consequences by laws of our society of killing another human being.)

 

[arielilane]

My guess is that he thought he would be dead by now. I am amazed he isn't. WIth the cameras everywhere and the sheer mass of people in that area of NY at this time of year mulling around even at that hour - I don't know why he got away.

It seems his planning did not take into account getting away from the scene unscathed. He appeared pretty adrift when apprehended. Hard to say where the ugly anger is coming from. Since I believe he had no plans to be captured,it seems he may be in what looks like a total mental collapse or just coming off drugs he was addicted to - that should become clear shortly. You really do get that monster uglyl ooking anger when you stop your drugs.
JMO

Excellent insight.

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www.healthline.com

 

[CLGM]

I, for one, would love him to have a vigorous defense. It is his right because that is how we do it here. Then, I think he will be put away for life which as I see the facts right now is the right thing.

I am not sure he will continue to have so many people back him as I think the mental health issues he has will over shadow his belief about corporate American greed/high pay execs. People will move on from him. However, as the income/wealth gap continues, across the spectrum of people, there will be more and more dissent and calls for change. Personally, I need change in the healthcare realm because I can't afford 10k a year high deductible plans nor can I afford to pay much higher premiums that will still require significant cash outlays. Something has to give. No excuse for murder but certainly a spotlight on the issue. JMHO.

You said this much more clearly and succinctly than I just tried to in my comment!

 

[legalese]

For the lawyers on board:

If the defense seeks to use his medical / surgical issues as a defense, would this then make his HIPPA rights void, and allow the prosecution to also examine his medical/surgical records?

Picking and choosing this information could be very contentious.

To start, back ailments are absolutely not a defense to a murder charge, so it will up to a judge to determine what medical evidence is relevant and admissible in this case.

If the defense is seeking to use his medical information, the records will first need to be acquired by the defense via subpoena duces tecum. That will require LM to sign a HIPAA waiver to authorize the release of his medical records to his attorney(s). Just like the prosecution is obligated to share evidence/discovery with the defense, the defense is required to provide the prosecution with copies of evidence the defense intends to use.

 

[Boodles]

Sure, but maybe defense team will milk it anyway.

I don’t think the “it wasn’t me, it was some other dude” has a remote chance of being used or successful as LM’s defense argument. Barring some sort of legal technicality, I think their case is solid as a rock. Jury nullification would be his only chance, and I don’t think that will happen either.

 

[Sundog]

Sadly, this case is going to change nothing in the system. The CEOs are doubling down on security as if that is the issue. They are paid big bucks to think like this? Baffling.

That is the issue right now. One of their colleagues was just assassinated by a madman in cold blood. Sounds like the appropriate response to me.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Gosh this one has me somewhat ambivalent.
On one hand I am and always will be a huge supporter of the law and LE and I am applauding them for apprehending so quickly, however on another hand I am a smidge disappointed. I can understand that this might be taboo and rub some here the wrong way and I mean no disrespect, but I am not totally surprised at the mass public reaction to this whole circus. On one hand I believe that nobody has the right to take the life of another and if they do they must face the consequences, but on another hand the whole healthcare "murdering by proxy" "eat the rich" etc... stuff is just so in your face it's hard to ignore and easy to understand. Look around both online and in your daily life and you will immediately come across someone who either them self or a loved one has been impacted by greedy healthcare issues. It's such a big issue and I hate to say it but this sort of thing was gonna happen eventually. Not just the alleged perp here but PEOPLE on a whole have had enough. Sure they don't all go out and commit murder thankfully (although many do resort to crime as a result) but it's not a surprise here that someone got pushed to the end of their own personal tether over it and took the most extreme measures.
Ugh I don't know, I just kinda get it and I hate that I feel that way. That said, I agree with the law and whatever the law hands to LM. I also agree with the people who aren't entirely condemning the act of "fighting back".
I am however hoping that this doesn't lead to any copycat attempts as not only is that wrong as a whole, unintended targets could get caught in the crossfire

Ultimately though my heart is with all the members of BT's family and friends... As well as those of LM and I'm sorry, but also LM himself... Also each and every single person who has been done over by healthcare companies... patients, staff and medical professionals alike.

Sorry if my own opinions here offend anybody, I'm struggling as I've not been this conflicted before and feel like a huge hypocrite <3

Thank you for explaining my exact feelings that I feel somewhat ashamed of. (I am from a family of three NYPD detectives…..jMy good friend worked for unum and they were given bonuses for denying life saving care. The man shot, and homicide is absolutely always wrong, was making ten million per year. The American tea party that started quite a lot of shooting was about poor Americans being taxed for the rich British.I don’t believe he should be killed or anyone use violence , but of all the murderers out there, this one ,to many,giving up his freedom for life with some messiah delusions, perhaps is the most pitied.

 

[MassGuy]

Exclusive | Luigi Mangione resided in this Honolulu apartment in the months before his arrest

The nearly 1,000-square-foot two-bedroom at 801 South St. has sweeping views of the surrounding mountains.

nypost.com

In the months leading up to the high-profile murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York, accused killer Luigi Mangione was living nearly half the world away — in a high-rise Honolulu, Hawaii apartment, The Post has learned.

The nearly 1,000-square-foot corner unit at 801 South St. features two bedrooms, two bathrooms and sweeping views stretching out to the surrounding mountains. The monthly sum he paid isn’t clear, though several listings portals, such as Zillow and Redfin, estimate it rented for roughly $4,000 per month.

It’s unclear if Mangione, who records show moved into the apartment in February, had a roommate or lived alone.

 

[arielilane]

@LawCrimeNetwork

Luigi Mangione, 26, arrested for allegedly shooting the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, stopped responding to friends and family months ago. Law&Crime’s Jesse Weber @jessecordweber spoke with former roommate RJ Martin, who shared insights about Mangione's life before he went silent.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1866898240110776574

 

[Betty P]

I am curious about how they link all the video evidence.

Very systematically, I guess. As LE, they're accustomed to knowing sections of the city, so begin calling and reviewing video from each sector, branching out.

 

[Sundog]

It's bad enough when ordinary people root for the killer, it's on a whole other level when self-proclaimed "independent journalists" do it. This is despicable.

ETA: they are boosting their followers and monetizing this tragedy

Ex-WaPo reporter Taylor Lorenz tells Piers Morgan she felt ‘joy’ over assassination of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson: ‘Feels like justice’

Former Washington Post reporter Taylor Lorenz said she felt “joy” over the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson — doubling down on her unsettling defense of the gruesome…

nypost.com

Apparently she's trying to walk that back now, as it is being reported that her podcast partnership with Vox Media may have ended due to her outrageous comments about the murder of Brian Thompson.

Was Taylor Lorenz fired over remarks about UnitedHealthca...

The tech journalist has denied the reports that Vox is ending a deal to distribute her "Power User" show.

www.newsweek.com

 

[bestill]

Luigi Mangione‘s fingerprints match those found on a KIND snack bar and a water bottle near the scene of the Manhattan shooting of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO, law enforcement sources said.

The prints mark the first forensic connection between Mangione and evidence. Investigators are still trying to match Mangione’s prints to those found on the gun used in the fatal shooting of Brian Thompson, which was found on the suspected killer when he was arrested Monday in Pennsylvania.

Luigi Mangione’s fingerprints match those on KIND bar, water bottle found near scene of Brian Thompson shooting

Luigi Mangione’s fingerprints match those found on a KIND snack bar and a water bottle near the scene of the Manhattan shooting of UnitedHealthcare’s CEO, according to New York police. …

nypost.com

B/I BM- Does this mean that they have determined the gun found on him was indeed the weapon used to kill Brian Thompson?

 

[Jamie737]

The surgery resolved the pain, he said. Within a week, he knew he had made the right choice. This was in the NYT's analysis of his Reddit posts, which were at that point only accessible in a scraped archive. (Never mind, wasn't sure if everyone was caught up)

He would be an unusual patient indeed that recovers from a posterior fusion within a week. All the muscles are stripped off that part of the spine, the bone is drilled into and the nerve root exits are reamed open. 6-8 weeks is quick, 3-6 months is more typical.

 

[MassGuy]

B/I BM- Does this mean that they have determined the gun found on him was indeed the weapon used to kill Brian Thompson?

No confirmation of that yet. I can’t imagine it’ll take much longer.

 

[10ofRods]

Why was he going to hang around Altoona? Thankfully he screwed up his patient planning.

I figure he wanted a place to shower and change his appearance. And rest.

He may have thought no one would recognize him in a small-ish town. I'm guessing his thinking was a bit hazy by the time he was apprehended.

I also think that he had not thought through any plan of permanently hiding from the world. He may have thought he could use one of his fake ID's to book a motel, if he could find one that would take cash.

 

[jimg77]

I know nothing about guns in general or 3D printed gun's in specific. Arresting officers described the weapon as having "a metal slide and a plastic handle with a metal threaded barrel."

The 3D printed gun that Mangione used/built is called the Chairmanwon V1, the moniker is chilling. Source: UnitedHealthcare Shooting Person of Interest Had 3D Printed Glock

As I understand, 3D printed parts are; handle, trigger-guard and area holding the barrel (all plastic with no moving parts). Once the frame has been printed, the metal gun parts (barrel, trigger, firing assembly, etc) are acquired and gun assembled. In this case, a 3D printed suppressor was added.

Question: Why wouldn't the gun barrel, trigger or firing assembly have identifying manufacturer numbers to track purchase/sale? Or, are these parts made on the black market?

I'll try answering. From the manufacturer the parts mentioned do have serial numbers. Laws vary by state in needing a license to purchase these parts so they aren't 100% tracked. I think the federal law doesn't require tracking of certain parts either. And yes, I'm sure homemade parts and the black market are options also.

If someone is going to break the law in using a gun to kill someone they wouldn't be too worried about breaking a gun law.

Here is a link to the ATF site for privately made firearms. Privately Made Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[10ofRods]

Even if they have a DNA sample from the time of his arrest, the prosecutors will want a swab directly from LM. It’s the only way to show with any real certainty that the DNA found on evidence collected matches LM’s DNA.

It's my understanding that in both PA and NY, the Prosecution will need a court order to get that cheek swab. Both states require the swab upon conviction, but while LM is now presumed innocent, I look for him to make a big deal out of each one of his rights.

It'll be interesting to see what the NY court rules - and how quickly that happens.

I wonder if MassGuy knows whether used objects (like a tissue from his jail cell or a toothbrush) can be collected and tested without subpoena/court order.

 

[Sundog]

What if he didn’t want to use violence, but to create the end goal he had to take Brian’s life. Who is hurting right now?

Who is hurting right now? Brian Thompson's children, his family members, his friends, his colleagues, and members of civilized society. This is a crime against society as well as a crime against Brian Thompson, that is why he is being prosecuted.

My God. He assassinated a man in cold blood. There is no end that justifies such a means.

 

[Friday Fan]

Gosh this one has me somewhat ambivalent.
On one hand I am and always will be a huge supporter of the law and LE and I am applauding them for apprehending so quickly, however on another hand I am a smidge disappointed. I can understand that this might be taboo and rub some here the wrong way and I mean no disrespect, but I am not totally surprised at the mass public reaction to this whole circus. On one hand I believe that nobody has the right to take the life of another and if they do they must face the consequences, but on another hand the whole healthcare "murdering by proxy" "eat the rich" etc... stuff is just so in your face it's hard to ignore and easy to understand. Look around both online and in your daily life and you will immediately come across someone who either them self or a loved one has been impacted by greedy healthcare issues. It's such a big issue and I hate to say it but this sort of thing was gonna happen eventually. Not just the alleged perp here but PEOPLE on a whole have had enough. Sure they don't all go out and commit murder thankfully (although many do resort to crime as a result) but it's not a surprise here that someone got pushed to the end of their own personal tether over it and took the most extreme measures.
Ugh I don't know, I just kinda get it and I hate that I feel that way. That said, I agree with the law and whatever the law hands to LM. I also agree with the people who aren't entirely condemning the act of "fighting back".
I am however hoping that this doesn't lead to any copycat attempts as not only is that wrong as a whole, unintended targets could get caught in the crossfire

Ultimately though my heart is with all the members of BT's family and friends... As well as those of LM and I'm sorry, but also LM himself... Also each and every single person who has been done over by healthcare companies... patients, staff and medical professionals alike.

Sorry if my own opinions here offend anybody, I'm struggling as I've not been this conflicted before and feel like a huge hypocrite <3

Someone said that LM just should have thrown eggs to get his point across.

We saw the huge, persistent protests after Oct 7th. It can be done. Causes can be visible without killing people.

The Tea Party was also huge and one of their beefs was healthcare. They were extremely effective. (However, they were well funded) We saw huge protests during the Vietnam War.

Healthcare seems to affect everyone from all walks of life.

I have been to a few healthcare protests myself, they consisted of only about 100 people. No one seemed particularly fired up. (As they should be during a protest) To the general public, we probably just seemed to be a rag tag group more than anything.

 

[Sundog]

"bean-counter".... "wack".... does not sound like the nice guy everyone who knew him knew

He needed to dehumanize BT in order to shoot him in the back and try to justify it.