Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Deleted member 212413]

Then maybe we can rally our allies to boycott the company. Moo ...

The only reason I could think that our US military ships would be in Norway is to protect our of our NATO allies. We certainly have no other reason to be there. They are only hurting and putting Norway and other countries at risk. So vindictive. Moo

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Then maybe we can rally our allies to boycott the company. Moo ...

The only reason I could think that our US military ships would be in Norway is to protect our of our NATO allies. We certainly have no other reason to be there. They are only hurting and putting Norway and other countries at risk. So vindictive. Moo

Interesting that Norway allows a private company to negatively manipulate their defense. Maybe they need to bring this company inline via the purse string. JMO.

 

[keek]

"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Good men are no where the whitehouse at this time, but letttt's see who becomes not an evil follower and is loud and proud about it as a few are, few.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He wants security protections in return. Is that so difficult to comprehend? He's dealing with a madman who has reneged on "deals" over and over and over again. He's not stupid enough to believe this time will be different. Neither should we be. Russia is NOT the good guy here.

It's clear that's what Zelenskyy wants. He's just so inept that he doesn't know how to get it. He wants everything up front and all at once.

He should have simply signed the deal like he said he would and then discuss what kind of security protection he might be able to get. No, he throws a fit because he didn't get cake and ice cream at the same time.

Zelenskyy is a horrible leader who is failing his country. JMO.

 

[Fairy1]

Zelenskyy wasn't there to express his views, present photos, debate security, or bad mouthing US. He wasn't invited to discuss the war. He was invited to sign a partnership agreement for future economic income for Ukraine. Initially there was not going to be a public presentation. The prime minister of France made a special request for President Trump to host Zelenskyy and make a public presentation. I guess he owes us one now.

He derailed the entire event and use media/air time to try to railroad the US into military support. After repeatedly being told NO, not only by this administration but every prior administration. Biden wouldn't send in ground troops. Obama wouldn't send troops, he wouldn't send military aid but did sent sheets.

You are correct, Zelenskyy was not on the same page as the meetings agenda. He wasn't even in the same book.

Moo

I respectfully disagree. Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine. He is obligated to do what's best for his country and people. Why, in God's name, would he sign a deal that doesn't represent what's best for Ukraine for no other reason than to make "someone else" look good? Would anyone expect that from a US president under the same circumstances? Why wasn't Putin the one sitting in that chair?

 

[Simply Southern]

It was smart of Ukraine to leak the (non) deal in advance - allowing the world to see it was no deal for them at all. Compromise means both sides give something. This "deal" was not even close. It was "give me what I want and then take your chances." How is Russia compromising, BTW?

Then why would he come to the US? Why did he call the French PM and insist on a public signing? Why did his Parliament announce on Thursday they had approved the deal and would be signing it?

He came trying to shame the United States and to providing military support for his war.
Moo

 

[Deleted member 212413]

It's clear that's what Zelenskyy wants. He's just so inept that he doesn't know how to get it. He wants everything up front and all at once.

He should have simply signed the deal like he said he would and then discuss what kind of security protection he might be able to get. No, he throws a fit because he didn't get cake and ice cream at the same time.

Zelenskyy is a horrible leader who is failing his country. JMO.

Who signs a deal and negotiates later with people that have bombed innocent people and people who kicked out people who were poor to make way for people who are rich and have declared bankruptcy multiple times and not paid their bills multiple times? Those are not people who are good faith people, never have been and never will be.
He's not signing for himself personally, he is signing for his country.

 

[Fairy1]

The press conference was about an economic deal. If you watch the video, notice the shock on Trump and his cabinets faces when he starts talking about security, bringing out photos, talking about how Obama didn't help him, he went all the way back to 1996.
Zelensky engineered/plan to disrupt the press conference. He is 100% at fault. That's like Trump going to visit the King and bringing out photos of the revolutionary war and asking reimbursement for the revolutionary war damages. You don't get invited for one thing and then change the narrative. He blindsided everybody.
Moo

What good is an "economic deal" when their enemy is likely to destroy whatever they might manage to rebuild?

 

[Simply Southern]

I respectfully disagree. Zelenskyy is the President of Ukraine. He is obligated to do what's best for his country and people. Why, in God's name, would he sign a deal that doesn't represent what's best for Ukraine for no other reason than to make "someone else" look good? Would anyone expect that from a US president under the same circumstances? Why wasn't Putin the one sitting in that chair?

His people voted for the deal. Ukraine Parliament voted and approved the deal on Thursday. They announced it on Twitter and in the media.
Zelenskyy was determined the deal was not going to be executing even though his governing body voted and approved it. No he's not looking out for the country. He deliberately sabotaged it and managed to offend his largest single donor.
Moo...

 

[Deleted member 212413]

Then why would he come to the US? Why did he call the French PM and insist on a public signing? Why did his Parliament announce on Thursday they had approved the deal and would be signing it?

He came trying to shame the United States and to providing military support for his war.
Moo

He absolutely did not. You can't just say things and they are true. Trump does that as well and people believe him but it doesn't make them true.
Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Then why would he come to the US? Why did he call the French PM and insist on a public signing? Why did his Parliament announce on Thursday they had approved the deal and would be signing it?

He came trying to shame the United States and to providing military support for his war.
Moo

I think Zelenskyy felt that by springing the security issue on President Trump with the press watching it would work out in his favor. Instead it backfired on him and shutdown the deal he so desperately needs. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Then why would he come to the US? Why did he call the French PM and insist on a public signing? Why did his Parliament announce on Thursday they had approved the deal and would be signing it?

He came trying to shame the United States and to providing military support for his war.
Moo

Zelenskyy didn't shame the US. The US Govt shamed itself. That is very clear to see by the reaction of dozens of leaders around the world, and by the many, many thousands (millions?) of world-wide private citizens reactions to that horrible pile on.

imo

 

[Simply Southern]

Do you have a link to the badmouthing of the US?
IMO.

It's in the video. He stated no one had helped him at the beginning of the war. Trump reminded him that under his administration they sent javelin's. Obama sent sheets. He continued to badger Trump what's security. It's about likely stated that he's not going to sign the deal what a bad deal it was for him. This all after his Parliament voted and approved on Thursday, and announced on X and the media. That was a shock to everyone in the room including Zelensky own staff.
The entire point of the meeting was to sign an economic partnership.
Moo...

 

[Simply Southern]

I know I'm in the minority here. But I'm not alone in feeling the way I do. JMO.

I agree and think the majority of Americans agree. Moo

 

[keek]

Who signs a deal and negotiates later with people that have bombed innocent people and people who kicked out people who were poor to make way for people who are rich and have declared bankruptcy multiple times and not paid their bills multiple times? Those are not people who are good faith people, never have been and never will be.
He's not signing for himself personally, he is signing for his country.

Too many people missed the memo how and when the invasion started and how Russia was and continues to be stood up to. The horrific bombing of hospitals, schools directly and purposefully. The torturing and rape of elderly women and men, children. Snipering old men on their bikes carrying a little food back to home. The visuals have been shown around the world. P directed this on civilians from day one. Hard to forget and obviously not forgotten, just a reminder for some. No matter.

 

[Leilei]

Then why would he come to the US? Why did he call the French PM and insist on a public signing? Why did his Parliament announce on Thursday they had approved the deal and would be signing it?

He came trying to shame the United States and to providing military support for his war.
Moo

Do you have a link to him shaming the US?
Thanks in advance.
IMO.

 

[Fairy1]

I think Zelenskyy felt that by springing the security issue on President Trump with the press watching it would work out in his favor. Instead it backfired on him and shutdown the deal he so desperately needs. JMO.

He absolutely did not "spring" that on anyone. He made no secret that he wanted that component in the deal. If anything, he miscalculated the administration's willingness to do the right thing.

Would you sign a contract for a new car without knowing what the payments would be? I mean, c'mon! You're getting shiny new car! Just sign on the dotted line, right?

How about taking out a mortgage without knowing the length of the contract?

Sorry, I don't believe Zelenskyy is being unreasonable here. Of course, he wants the war that Russia started and has ravaged his country to end. But what kind of leader would he be if he sold-out his country in the process?

 

[Simply Southern]

Zelenskyy didn't shame the US. The US Govt shamed itself. That is very clear to see by the reaction of dozens of leaders around the world, and by the many, many thousands (millions?) of world-wide private citizens reactions to that horrible pile on.

imo

The only leaders we've heard from have been in European countries. The problem is centered around Europe, the rest of the world has their own set of problems and doesn't it seem to be worried about Ukraine. Moo.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Agreed. He is not a diplomat. Let the diplomats negotiate. Politicians are too narcissistic to be effective diplomats. The whole thing looked like a staged reality show to me. Let's hope someone with sense can help Ukraine end this war.

It is not about winning, or land, or who started it, it needs to be about the old, the young, people in Ukraine who have suffered enough.

Respectfully @mickey2942 …. is the obverse true? That the current president of the US is a diplomat? Perhaps the current vice president?

IMO from what was displayed yesterday, and some other recent experiences, it seems the answer is that they are not. MOO

 

[Leilei]

The only leaders we've heard from have been in European countries. The problem is centered around Europe, the rest of the world has their own set of problems and does it seem to be worried about Ukraine. Moo.

Not true.
Japan has also weighed in.

Japan, Poland vow to continue supporting Ukraine in 5-yr action plan - The Mainichi

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japanese Foreign Minister Takeshi Iwaya and Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski agreed Friday on a five-year action plan pledgi

mainichi.jp

As has Australia.

PM backs Ukraine following Trump Oval Office clash

Australia's prime minister has joined other world leaders in reaffirming support for Ukraine following a showdown between its...

www.canberratimes.com.au