Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[keek]

He absolutely did not "spring" that on anyone. He made no secret that he wanted that component in the deal. If anything, he miscalculated the administration's willingness to do the right thing.

Would you sign a contract for a new car without knowing what the payments would be? I mean, c'mon! You're getting shiny new car! Just sign on the dotted line, right?

How about taking out a mortgage without knowing the length of the contract?

Sorry, I don't believe Zelenskyy is being unreasonable here. Of course, he wants the war that Russia started and has ravaged his country to end. But what kind of leader would he be if he sold-out his country in the process?

THE most NON sell out man ever, clearly. We see with our own eyes who sells out and to who.

 

[Simply Southern]

He absolutely did not "spring" that on anyone. He made no secret that he wanted that component in the deal. If anything, he miscalculated the administration's willingness to do the right thing.

Would you sign a contract for a new car without knowing what the payments would be? I mean, c'mon! You're getting shiny new car! Just sign on the dotted line, right?

How about taking out a mortgage without knowing the length of the contract?

Sorry, I don't believe Zelenskyy is being unreasonable here. Of course, he wants the war that Russia started and has ravaged his country to end. But what kind of leader would he be if he sold-out his country in the process?

His Parliament voted and agreed to the terms and conditions of the deal. He announced on Friday he was signing the deal. He lied and everybody wants to blame the US. We have upheld our part of the deal. We schedule the press conference, set him up to speak to senators that morning, planned a wonderful lunch for him and his staff in the White House, and schedule numerous events over the next two days for him. Nope, that won't get enough, he was determined to derail the event, no intentions of signing it, even though his government approved it. He was repeatedly told no there would be no security guarantee from the US. The prime ministers of the UK and France both visited that week they were publicly told that numerous times at press conferences. They understood.
Moo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Who signs a deal and negotiates later with people that have bombed innocent people and people who kicked out people who were poor to make way for people who are rich and have declared bankruptcy multiple times and not paid their bills multiple times? Those are not people who are good faith people, never have been and never will be.
He's not signing for himself personally, he is signing for his country.

I'm not sure who you are talking about but Zelensky does need to discuss security with the countries he wishes to get it from. Not demand it. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

The only leaders we've heard from have been in European countries. The problem is centered around Europe, the rest of the world has their own set of problems and does it seem to be worried about Ukraine. Moo.

I already provided some links (directly to you) about non-European countries that saw the shame that the US Govt brought on itself. Here it is again if you missed it.
There are more links, but I thought providing you with some examples might be enough. It was so bad that non-European countries felt they needed to comment.

Post in thread 'Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11'

Mar 1, 2025

Haven't heard a word out Asia, or Japan and many more. I consider all these rational countries.

It's not just Europe, but you would likely have to live in another part of the world to see what others are saying. That horrible pile on made others sit up, notice, and comment.


He added that Japan will do all it can to prevent divisions between the US and Ukraine or among the Group of Seven nations from widening.

Japan Prime Minister Ishiba comments on Trump-Zelenskyy talks | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

Japanese Prime Minister Ishiba Shigeru has commented on the heated exchange between US President Donald Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart Volodymyr Zelenskyy that took place on Friday at the White House.

www3.nhk.or.jp

'Donald Trump doesn’t match our PM Narendra Modi in behaviour, dignity': Vivek Agnihotri on...

• SouthAussie

• 

 

[Marysmith]

I'm not sure who you are talking about but Zelensky does need to discuss security with the countries he wishes to get it from. Not demand it. JMO.

I'm talking about Putin and Trump who are negotiating that deal for themselves. They have not behaved well for years in many facets of their lives and one of them has done all those things at one time or another. As a result they cannot be trusted.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

His Parliament voted and agreed to the terms and conditions of the deal. He announced on Friday he was signing the deal. He lied and everybody wants to blame the US. We have upheld our part of the deal. We schedule the press conference, set him up to speak to senators that morning, planned a wonderful lunch for him and his staff in the White House, and schedule numerous events over the next two days for him. Nope, that won't get enough, he was determined to derail the event, no intentions of signing it, even though his government approved it. He was repeatedly told no there would be no security guarantee from the US. The prime ministers of the UK and France both visited that week they were publicly told that numerous times at press conferences. They understood.
Moo

Thank you. You explained what happened very well.

 

[Simply Southern]

Not true.
Japan has also weighed in.

Japan, Poland vow to continue supporting Ukraine in 5-yr action plan - The Mainichi

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Japanese Foreign Minister Takeshi Iwaya and Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski agreed Friday on a five-year action plan pledgi

mainichi.jp

As has Australia.

PM backs Ukraine following Trump Oval Office clash

Australia's prime minister has joined other world leaders in reaffirming support for Ukraine following a showdown between its...

www.canberratimes.com.au

It's for recovery and reconstruction, not security. I'm assuming this would be in the event of a ceasefire. I don't know will they try to reconstruct while he continues the war? I read the article, because Poland has publicly stated they would not send any troops in for security or otherwise. That is subject to change with the various meetings that are being held in Europe.
Moo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I'm talking about Putin and Trump who are negotiating that deal for themselves. They have not behaved well for years in many facets of their lives and one of them has done all those things at one time or another.

Zelenskyy could be part of the negotiations if he calms down and wants to. Or he can continue the war with his people dying and property being destroyed. JMO.

 

[Marysmith]

Zelenskyy could be part of the negotiations if he calms down and wants to. Or he can continue the war with his people dying and property being destroyed. JMO.

He is trying to negotiate... that's what we've been talking about, isn't it, lol?

 

[SouthAussie]

It's for recovery and reconstruction, not security. I'm assuming this would be in the event of a ceasefire. I don't know when they try to reconstruct while he continues the war? I read the article, because Poland has publicly stated they would not send any troops in for security or otherwise. That is subject to change with the various meetings that are being held in Europe.
Moo

There will likely be a combination of countries who will help provide security, and a combination of countries that will help rebuild and recover. Each country doing what they are able to do to help Ukraine.
They do not all have the same capacities to assist. But each are trying, and will try.

Even non-European countries are helping. I have already posted (back in the threads) about my own country currently helping to train Ukraine soldiers in the UK, and sending money and materials.

imo

 

[Leilei]

It's for recovery and reconstruction, not security. I'm assuming this would be in the event of a ceasefire. I don't know will they try to reconstruct while he continues the war? I read the article, because Poland has publicly stated they would not send any troops in for security or otherwise. That is subject to change with the various meetings that are being held in Europe.
Moo

That's not what you said, though.

Simply Southern said:
The only leaders we've heard from have been in European countries. The problem is centered around Europe, the rest of the world has their own set of problems and does it seem to be worried about Ukraine. Moo.

IMO.

 

[STAGNUM]

The press conference was about an economic deal. If you watch the video, notice the shock on Trump and his cabinets faces when he starts talking about security, bringing out photos, talking about how Obama didn't help him, he went all the way back to 1996.
Zelensky engineered/plan to disrupt the press conference. He is 100% at fault. That's like Trump going to visit the King and bringing out photos of the revolutionary war and asking reimbursement for the revolutionary war damages. You don't get invited for one thing and then change the narrative. He blindsided everybody.
Moo

He didn't blind side anyone. He had previously discussed those things with Trump on the phone. Trump only wants a transactional deal for Rare Earth (Raw earth as <modsnip: Name calling is not allowed> called it). Trump was just giving lip service on further security. There was no meeting of the minds. Trump wants money and Zelenskyy wants Russia out of his country for good. If you were Ukraine, what would be your priority at a peace talk?

 

[STAGNUM]

Zelenskyy could be part of the negotiations if he calms down and wants to. Or he can continue the war with his people dying and property being destroyed. JMO.

You need to watch the entire video. Zelenskyy was the ADULT, the calmest person in that room. Trump and Vance were man-children. By the way, Zelenskyy thanked US and Trump profusely the first 40 minutes of the video. The Vance lays into him and says he never thanked US/Trump and had thanked "The opposition in PA". If anyone blew up any deal it was JD Vance. He further triggered Trump<modsnip: Name calling is not allowed>. But I think the deal will never happen because frankly, Zelenskyy is in a much better position with Europe right now and could cut that "Raw Earth" deal with anyone else in the world..

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

He didn't blind side anyone. He had previously discussed those things with Trump on the phone. Trump only wants a transactional deal for Rare Earth (Raw earth as <modsnip: Name calling is not allowed> called it). Trump was just giving lip service on further security. There was no meeting of the minds. Trump wants money and Zelenskyy wants Russia out of his country for good. If you were Ukraine, what would be your priority at a peace talk?

Yes @STAGNUM ….. quite good points here. And one has to wonder, with Musk and all the electronic vehicles and electronic industry in which he participates. Might there be some interest that relates to the desired precious metals and mineral deposits? One can hope that is being investigated by some international or governmental authority. And so it is fully dislocated and transparent if being conducted. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Times Square, NY, yesterday ....

Sun News - Kyiv, Ukraine, media/news company

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You need to watch the entire video. Zelenskyy was the ADULT, the calmest person in that room. Trump and Vance were man-children. By the way, Zelenskyy thanked US and Trump profusely the first 40 minutes of the video. The Vance lays into him and says he never thanked US/Trump and had thanked "The opposition in PA". If anyone blew up any deal it was JD Vance. He further triggered Trump, simply because Trump is a moron. But I think the deal will never happen because frankly, Zelenskyy is in a much better position with Europe right now and could cut that "Raw Earth" deal with anyone else in the world, including perhaps Putin...

I did watch the entire video and I have a different opinion.

So Zelenskyy announcing today that he still wants to sign the mineral deal is some kind of ruse? If so it makes me trust him even less. JMO.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he is ready to sign a stalled minerals deal with the United States in a thread on X on Saturday, in which he also urged the United States to stand strongly behind Ukraine amid its war with Russia, one day after his meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance devolved into a near-shouting match.

Zelenskyy Says He’s Ready To Sign Minerals Deal After White House Clash

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy posted a lengthy thread on X Saturday, stating he would sign the minerals deal, but said the Ukrainian people “need to know that America is on our side.”

www.forbes.com

 

[Fairy1]

Zelenskyy could be part of the negotiations if he calms down and wants to. Or he can continue the war with his people dying and property being destroyed. JMO.

Zelenskyy was never invited to be part of the negotiations and still hasn't been. Outsiders and Russia are deciding the future of Ukraine. I can appreciate that Zelenskyy is not a diplomat. Neither is Trump, if we're being perfectly honest. But really, why would anyone expect him to just bow down and capitulate after what his country has endured the last 3 years. Why?

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes @STAGNUM ….. quite good points here. And one has to wonder, with Musk and all the electronic vehicles and electronic industry in which he participates. Might there be some interest that relates to the desired precious metals and mineral deposits? One can hope that is being invest by some international or governmental authority. And so it is fully dislocated and transparent if being conducted. MOO

I posted a link further back that stated that one of Russia's several business offerings to the US was a joint venture to Mars, involving Musk.

Post in thread 'Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11'

Feb 28, 2025

• The Kremlin is reportedly continuing to push the United States to accept economic benefits that are unrelated to the war in Ukraine in return for Ukrainian and Western concessions that are related to the war.

This ^^^ is really important to note, in terms of any US-led agreement between Ukraine & Russia. imo

(from your link)
Bloomberg, citing a source familiar with the topic, reported on February 27 that CEO of the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF) and newly appointed Special Presidential Representative for Investment and Economic Cooperation with...

• SouthAussie

• 

 

[Simply Southern]

There will likely be a combination of countries who will help provide security, and a combination of countries that will help rebuild and recover. Each country doing what they are able to do to help Ukraine.
They do not all have the same capacities to assist. But each are trying, and will try.

Even non-European countries are helping. I have already posted (back in the threads) about my own country currently helping to train Ukraine soldiers in UK, and sending money and materials.

imo

This is good. Europe and others are stepping up to help him. I know Australia's always willing to pitch in and help. They're always so good to send rescue personnel, firefighters to world disasters. I hope he gets enough support to continue with his plan.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Zelenskyy was never invited to be part of the negotiations and still hasn't been. Outsiders and Russia are deciding the future of Ukraine. I can appreciate that Zelenskyy is not a diplomat. Neither is Trump, if we're being perfectly honest. But really, why would anyone expect him to just bow down and capitulate after what his country has endured the last 3 years. Why?

They just started. He will have to sign on to any agreement if there is one so he will be a part of the negotiations if he wants to.
<modsnip> JMO.