Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[LibraStarr]

Respectfully, he's asking for military vehicles and air support, addition to listed above.

That may be true, but it’s not what you said in the post I quoted. IMO

He needs to cut the rhetoric and move on to another plan. No amount of demanding is going to put US troops on the ground in Ukraine.

 

[Betty P]

‘SNL’ Cold Open: Mike Myers Crashes Zelenskyy Meeting as Elon Musk | Video

The "Saturday Night Live" veteran returned after February's 50th anniversary special The post ‘SNL’ Cold Open: Mike Myers Crashes Zelenskyy Meeting as Elon Musk | Video appeared first on TheWrap.

www.yahoo.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896062193524703261

Love the t-shirt.

 

[Stella123]

Looks like you live in Ontario. My dad lived in Windsor until he was 14. If he was still alive I could ask him about "boors".

The origin of the word boor is from before the norman conquest (of the Uk) when a "gebur"was a tenant or farmer "a rough and bad mannered person"

To be honest, although it's a word I know and it's meaning, I have usually only come across it in historical literature - maybe from 17th century onwards. Although it is a word that is used but not commonly.

"boor
[M16th]Before the Norman Conquest a gebūr was a peasant or tenant farmer, and is the source of boor, ‘a rough and bad-mannered person’. The Normans swept away the Anglo-Saxon social structure, and with it the word, until in the mid 16th century English readopted it from related Dutch and German words meaning a peasant or rustic. Much later, in the 19th century, the Dutch word ...

boor

"boor" published on by Oxford University Press.

www.oxfordreference.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

WHOA !!!

Did Zelensky call JD Vance a 'b**** f***' under breath at Oval Office?

Viewers of the televised 45-minute dispute - with US President Donald Trump at the centre - believe he muttered the insult during the explosive White House clash.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Did Zelensky call JD Vance a 'b**** *advertiser censored**' under his breath during Oval Office attack from Trump's VP?

Ukraine president Volodymyr Zelensky has sparked suggestions he branded US Vice-President JD Vance a 'b****' during their explosive White House row.

Viewers of the televised 45-minute dispute - with US President Donald Trump at the centre - believe he muttered the insult under his breath.

Mr Zelensky is said to have uttered 'Suka, blyat' in response to Mr Vance criticising him for an alleged lack of respect, during Friday evening's confrontation.
....
The slang phrase, also spelled as 'cyka', is variously said to translate in English as 'son of a b****', 'b**** *advertiser censored**', '*advertiser censored**ing hell' or '*advertiser censored** you, b****'.

The Ukrainian president was seen crossing his arms in dismay as both Mr Trump and Mr Vance laid into him, before Mr Zelensky was sent on his way from the Washington DC summit sooner than scheduled.

IF he did, it would have to have been under his breath because he couldn't get an actual word in edgeways!

 

[otto]

Starmer is asking for the same treaty provisions that Zelenskyy requested. Security guarantees. It makes no sense to broker a peace agreement that leaves the victim completely defenseless while trusting the hostile invading country to cease their aggression. Leaving Russia free to attack a defenseless Ukraine while plundering their assets renders the entire peace agreement useless.

Do pro Trump people really believe that Russia won’t continue their invasion of an unprotected Ukraine?

A treaty without enforcement isn’t a treaty at all.

I'm looking at this from the outside, as a foreigner, but my impression is that pro-Trump people don't really think much about what's going on between Russia and Ukraine. They voted for Trump, and they are doubling down on their choice regardless of what he says or does.

In terms of big picture and how this evolved, my impression is that Trump is using a strategy previously used by Hitler. That is, he needed to unify people to follow and support him regardless of what he did. What better way to achieve this than to convince people that they are treated unfairly, cheated, and victimized by someone. Trump started by announcing that immigrants are criminals and murderers. They are the "bad guy" that is victimizing the USA people. Hitler named Jewish people as the "bad guy" After he was elected, Trump expanded that 'bad guy' image to include Panama (they stole the canal), Denmark (won't sell Greenland), Canada (replace "trade deficit" with "subsidy"), the EU (formed to harm the USA), and Ukraine (grifting for war supplies). Each of these "bad guys" are, according to Trump: so mean, so unfair, so nasty to Trump's followers (victims).

People who elected Trump were gradually convinced, through daily repetition of false statements from Trump, that they are victims of immigrants, Canadians, Ukrainian and many other countries. Today, Trump's supporters are unified in their belief that they are victims who are justified in lashing out at all those people/countries that Trump identified as harming the USA. The victim mentality is so deeply rooted that Trump and his followers tell Canadians that they should not retaliate when Trump enacts Economic War against Canada on Tuesday. They believe that Trump is justified in declaring war, that Canadians have harmed the USA, and that any reaction is an invitation to escalate the war. They believe that Canada should do what Trump says because, according to them, Canada is stealing from the USA. They do not accept that Trump has no authority in sovereign countries like Ukraine, Greenland, Canada, etc., or that Trump is concocting facts.

Similarly with Ukraine, Trump's followers/victims look at the $6.6 billion spent (no strings attached) by the USA and the $6 billion spent by the EU (to protect democracy), and conclude that Ukraine is cheating the USA. They watched Vance and Trump deteriorate to infantile shouting-match tantrums with Zelenskyy and then blame Zelenskyy (echoing Russia) - with the usual name-calling, insults and declarations that the man who had the tantrum was justified since, in their view, Trump is the victim defending a country full of victims. Trump's followers/victims believe that Ukraine is a 'cheat' that deserves mass murder from Russian troops because they accepted USA money to defend democracy.

 

[Simply Southern]

Yes, complete with a dupers delight smile.

Good article with more disappointing details.

Trump ill mannered and ungracious from the start greeted the President of Ukrainian at the White House door publicly mocking him in his signature tasteless manner by commenting and pointing for the cameras at Zelenskyy’s clothing.

Trump is shown in the picture goofing like a circus clown while Zelenskyy is suitably serious and not in costume to perform like a monkey for the demented ringmaster.

Check out the picture of how a guest to the people’s house is rudely mocked to reporters by its temporary resident.

President Zelensky gives brutal response when asked why he won't wear a suit

Volodymyr Zelensky was grilled by a US White House correspondent on his choice of attire during his visit to Washington DC - and his response earned him plaudits online

www.irishstar.com

All Imo

Many Americans including myself, feel this is extremely disrespectful behavior. They even passed dress code regulations in our house of Congress.

I understand he wants to wear a military uniform, but he is not on the battlefield. He's meeting the President of the United States, representing his country, on the world stage and the only person in the room that dress down. He certainly didn't look like a president, more like a laborer. I would never show up to business meeting in casual attire. But again, it's all about what Zelenskyy wants and not others. It's all about himself.
Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

Lol, Zelenskyy eats Vance’s lunch.

Zelensky burned then ate the lunch Vance tried to serve, lol.

Did Zelensky call JD Vance a 'b**** f***' under breath at Oval Office?

Viewers of the televised 45-minute dispute - with US President Donald Trump at the centre - believe he muttered the insult during the explosive White House clash.

www.dailymail.co.uk

All imo

No, Zelenskyy was ask him to leave. Maybe he grabbed a bite at McDonald's on his way to the UK. He needed comfort. He needed hugs. He got his feelings hurt, he needs his ego stoked. Such a weak leader. This is the first time I've ever seen a leader of a country go running to another President, like a failure to thrive adult running home to Mama. He's high maintenance and very needy.

Moo

 

[LibraStarr]

I'm looking at this from the outside, as a foreigner, but my impression is that pro-Trump people don't really think much about what's going on between Russia and Ukraine. They voted for Trump, and they are doubling down on their choice regardless of what he says or does.

In terms of big picture and how this evolved, my impression is that Trump is using a strategy previously used by Hitler. That is, he needed to unify people to follow and support him regardless of what he did. What better way to achieve this than to convince people that they are treated unfairly, cheated, and victimized by someone. Trump started by announcing that immigrants are criminals and murderers. They are the "bad guy" that is victimizing the USA people. Hitler named Jewish people as the "bad guy" After he was elected, Trump expanded that 'bad guy' image to include Panama (they stole the canal), Denmark (won't sell Greenland), Canada (replace "trade deficit" with "subsidy"), the EU (formed to harm the USA), and Ukraine (grifting for war supplies). Each of these "bad guys" are, according to Trump: so mean, so unfair, so nasty to Trump's followers (victims).

People who elected Trump were gradually convinced, through daily repetition of false statements from Trump, that they are victims of immigrants, Canadians, Ukrainian and many other countries. Today, Trump's supporters are unified in their belief that they are victims who are justified in lashing out at all those people/countries that Trump identified as harming the USA. The victim mentality is so deeply rooted that Trump and his followers tell Canadians that they should not retaliate when Trump enacts Economic War against Canada on Tuesday. They believe that Trump is justified in declaring war, that Canadians have harmed the USA, and that any reaction is an invitation to escalate the war. They believe that Canada should do what Trump says because, according to them, Canada is stealing from the USA. They do not accept that Trump has no authority in sovereign countries like Ukraine, Greenland, Canada, etc., or that Trump is concocting facts.

Similarly with Ukraine, Trump's followers/victims look at the $6.6 billion spent (no strings attached) by the USA and the $6 billion spent by the EU (to protect democracy), and conclude that Ukraine is cheating the USA. They watched Vance and Trump deteriorate to infantile shouting-match tantrums with Zelenskyy and then blame Zelenskyy (echoing Russia) - with the usual name-calling, insults and declarations that the man who had the tantrum was justified since, in their view, Trump is the victim defending a country full of victims. Trump's followers/victims believe that Ukraine is a 'cheat' that deserves mass murder from Russian troops because they accepted USA money to defend democracy.

Well said. The way Trump and his allies have convinced people that Ukraine is somehow the villain here is incredibly frustrating. It’s all part of a broader strategy—create a victim narrative, repeat it endlessly, and use it to justify turning against those who actually need support. The irony is, the real aggressor in this situation is Russia, but somehow people have been manipulated into thinking Ukraine is the one to blame. You explained this perfectly, and more people need to recognize how this mindset is being shaped.

 

[Stella123]

Not at all. I want what's best for the Ukrainian people and I don't think they are getting it from Zelenskyy. JMO.

Zelensky has been managing/fighting a war for years, dealing with grief. He is desperate for help to protect his country - and he is being very clear about that. Trump wants peace with Russia (not a bad sentiment) but Zelensky is saying Russia is an agressor, who abuses prisoners of war and has breached other agreements made earlier in the war, and can't be trusted. He is being honest when he says he needs more than just money for mineral rights. He needs a presence in his country. Even Trump, during that meeting, acknowledged there had been mention of a Uk peace-keeping force.

What is clear is Zelensky and Trump cannot agree. Trump won't want a US presence in Ukraine as that could be seen to be taking sides against Putin and Trump is scared that if the US supports Ukraine it will start WWIII. Trumps fear of that is clear, when he verbally attacked Zelensky and accused him of trying to start WWIII. Trumps fears made him aggressive. Trump is not a diplomat!

Zelensky explained in his Fox news interview, that yes he wants the deal but there is something that should have been in it that wasn't. A US presence on the mineral rights land they would be buying. That is not a military presence, but a presence. I take from that, that Zelensky feels Putin would not invade and attack American people living in Ukraine (which would indeed start WWIII).

So why isn't Trump happy to have US people (non military) living and working the mineral rights land they are buying? It can only be because he also doesn't trust Putin not to invade and kill Americans! IMO - hence starting WWIII.

Zelensky is not asking Trump to enter the war, he is asking for security in his country. He is trying to work with what has been offered, but as @Sillybilly said - this deal is a better one for Trump than it is for Zelensky! And offers Zelensky no security.

Trump maybe (naively IMO) thinks that if the US "owns" land rights in the Ukraine, Putin wouldn't dare invade them - but if he thinks that then I think he is wrong. Because that is money and business. Trump (naively IMO) thinks Putin respects him. Unless that was just soundbites for the cameras.
JMO MOO

 

[weepingangel]

Many Americans including myself, feel this is extremely disrespectful behavior. They even passed dress code regulations in our house of Congress.

I understand he wants to wear a military uniform, but he is not on the battlefield. He's meeting the President of the United States, representing his country, on the world stage and the only person in the room that dress down. He certainly didn't look like a president, more like a laborer. I would never show up to business meeting in casual attire. But again, it's all about what Zelenskyy wants and not others. It's all about himself.
Moo

 

[Sundog]

Apologies if this was already posted, this thread moves fast!

An SNP MP has said that Donald Trump's second state visit to the UK cannot go ahead if he refuses to show further support for Ukraine.
Trump accused Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelensky of "gambling with World War Three" during a fiery showdown at the White House on Friday.

Stephen Gethins, the SNP's foreign affairs spokesperson, called Trump's behaviour towards Zelensky "grotesque" and said it amounted to "bullying".

SNP MP calls for Trump state visit to be scrapped

A second state visit cannot go ahead if the US president does not show further support for Ukraine, Stephen Gethins says.

www.bbc.com

I would think it would be up to the King to extend or withdraw an invitation to a head of state, not a member of the SNP. Sounds like this guy is way out of line.

 

[weepingangel]

Russia celebrates US foreign policy that now ‘coincides’ with Moscow’s worldview

Moscow hopes to take advantage of a growing rift between the U.S. and Ukraine, and Europe more broadly.

www.politico.eu

The Kremlin on Sunday cheered the shift in U.S. foreign policy under President Donald Trump, saying the American view now “largely coincides” with Russia’s take on geopolitics.

Trump has upended U.S. policy on Ukraine in recent weeks and sought a more conciliatory approach to Russian President Vladimir Putin, echoing Moscow’s talking points and recently accusing Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy of obstructing efforts to resolve the conflict started by Putin’s unprovoked invasion. In contrast, former U.S. President Joe Biden led efforts to support Kyiv against the Russian forces attacking Ukraine.

“The new [U.S.] administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely coincides with our vision,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Sunday in a video published on Telegram.

 

[Betty P]

Many Americans including myself, feel this is extremely disrespectful behavior. They even passed dress code regulations in our house of Congress.

I understand he wants to wear a military uniform, but he is not on the battlefield. He's meeting the President of the United States, representing his country, on the world stage and the only person in the room that dress down. He certainly didn't look like a president, more like a laborer. I would never show up to business meeting in casual attire. But again, it's all about what Zelenskyy wants and not others. It's all about himself.
Moo

He is a guest of the citizens of the United States. It's bad manners to impose dress codes on your guests, not to mention insulting them and lobbing false accusations live on a global video show.

ETA: I love how SNL skewered the WH "dress code" by pointing out that Musk always visits the WH and press events wearing jeans and t-shirts. Don't forget the very "dignified" trucker hats that all of them wear regularly.

 

[Simply Southern]

That may be true, but it’s not what you said in the post I quoted. IMO

I'm apologize for my unclear message. I hope just clarifies.

Zelensky is asking for a security guarantee. This includes but it's not limited to, troops on the ground, air support, military intelligence and continued military equipment and ammunition. He stayed this in the press conference with the president and in his very long X Post.
Moo

 

[Stella123]

I love Starmer's thoughts.

This is his field - negotiation. He's a former barrister (high level court lawyer). He's good at that but not good at making himself popular in the Uk by the way he talks sometimes about general Uk stuff! He has earned respect from this situation recently however.

 

[otto]

Well said. The way Trump and his allies have convinced people that Ukraine is somehow the villain here is incredibly frustrating. It’s all part of a broader strategy—create a victim narrative, repeat it endlessly, and use it to justify turning against those who actually need support. The irony is, the real aggressor in this situation is Russia, but somehow people have been manipulated into thinking Ukraine is the one to blame. You explained this perfectly, and more people need to recognize how this mindset is being shaped.

Russia is the initial aggressor with Ukraine, but today the USA is the aggressor with Denmark, Greenland, Panama, South Africa, Canada, Ukraine and the EU. Trump supporters agree with this aggression because they have been convinced through double-speak (e.g.: trade deficit = subsidy) that all those countries are victimizing the USA.

As victims, they are angry, they don't care about anyone or anything except making the USA "rich again". Never mind that the middle class already believes that they are the richest, best country in the world. As victims, they think they need to be "rich again", and when Trump is done with warring with allies, they will still think they are the richest best country in the world. Nothing will have changed, except they will thank Trump for convincing them that they are still rich.

 

[Simply Southern]

IF he did, it would have to have been under his breath because he couldn't get an actual word in edgeways!

He had an interpreter sitting directly behind him supplied by the White House. Moo, but I highly suspect the interpreter heard him and communicated to staff. I don't think the president or any of the cabinet members are fluent in his language.

Yeah he got pretty hot, he continued to interrupt the president and speak over him. He's underdressed, lacks respect, rules of decorum and etiquette. He thought he could bully his way with Trump by playing to the media for military support. It backfire, he walks away with nothing. He's put the European nations on the spot, and gave Putin much encouragement to continue to overthrow his government. He's a showman.
Moo

 

[otto]

I would think it would be up to the King to extend or withdraw an invitation to a head of state, not a member of the SNP. Sounds like this guy is way out of line.

During their meeting, Starmer presented Trump with a hand written invitation from the King for a state visit. That will not be withdrawn.

 

[otto]

Russia celebrates US foreign policy that now ‘coincides’ with Moscow’s worldview

Moscow hopes to take advantage of a growing rift between the U.S. and Ukraine, and Europe more broadly.

www.politico.eu

The Kremlin on Sunday cheered the shift in U.S. foreign policy under President Donald Trump, saying the American view now “largely coincides” with Russia’s take on geopolitics.

Trump has upended U.S. policy on Ukraine in recent weeks and sought a more conciliatory approach to Russian President Vladimir Putin, echoing Moscow’s talking points and recently accusing Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy of obstructing efforts to resolve the conflict started by Putin’s unprovoked invasion. In contrast, former U.S. President Joe Biden led efforts to support Kyiv against the Russian forces attacking Ukraine.

“The new [U.S.] administration is rapidly changing all foreign policy configurations. This largely coincides with our vision,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov said on Sunday in a video published on Telegram.

I hope Trump's supporters take a minute to shift their thinking and understand that their political ideas now align 100% with Russia. That must be a bit of a mind-F.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

No, Zelenskyy was ask him to leave. Maybe he grabbed a bite at McDonald's on his way to the UK. He needed comfort. He needed hugs. He got his feelings hurt, he needs his ego stoked. Such a weak leader. This is the first time I've ever seen a leader of a country go running to another President, like a failure to thrive adult running home to Mama. He's high maintenance and very needy.

Moo

Even if that were true (though I completely disagree), that is not the meaning of failure to thrive.

It's interesting how one meeting can have such widely different interpretations. I saw the "leader of the free world" engage in a rude, muscle-flexing, tantrum-throwing, nonsensical interaction. It was essentially akin to telling an abuse or DV victim to "forgive and forget, return to your abuser and just do what he/she says next time so this doesn't happen." And then abusing the victim yourself when that advice is spat upon.

This thing was bungled because it was handled very poorly by all objective standards, IMO. I've seen schoolyard bullies with better diplomacy skills.

MOO.