Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #12

[Simply Southern]

Thank you Southern. I think we all agree that Putin is a bad dude. He wants to take over democratic nations. We owe it to society to not let that happen, right?
That's what so many of us have been saying. We all want the world to be a better place. And a better place means we need democracies.
Let's all fight for democracy together.
Trump has aligned himself with Putin. That's just not acceptable to align with the bully.
We need to defend the victims...just like we do on all of the criminal cases here on WS.

Let's all fight for a better world.

Trump is not aligned with Putin. Do they have a relationship? Yes

It was not too long ago, many US companies operated in the Russia. McDonald's, Subway, US Banks, retail stores. Trump was in business, of course he tried to put a hotel there in 2008. He was a potential investor. He had a business relationship, just like the CEOs of McDonald's and Subway and all the other companies that were located in Russia had a relationship with Putin. Does that mean that anybody that's ever done business with Russia is on their side?

Trump's playing good cop bad cop, he's going to try to get a peace deal, or at least was. Looks like Europe's going to take that over.

180 military souls were lost last night in Ukraine. The killing's got to stop.
Moo

Business projects of Donald Trump in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UK Girl]

Trump is not aligned with Putin. Do they have a relationship? Yes

It was not too long ago, many US companies operated in the Russia. McDonald's, Subway, US Banks, retail stores. Trump was in business, of course he tried to put a hotel there in 2008. He was a potential investor. He had a business relationship, just like the CEOs of McDonald's and Subway and all the other companies that were located in Russia had a relationship with Putin. Does that mean that anybody that's ever done business with Russia is on their side?

Trump's playing good cop bad cop, he's going to try to get a peace deal, or at least was. Looks like Europe's going to take that over.

180 military souls were lost last night in Ukraine. The killing's got to stop.
Moo

Business projects of Donald Trump in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tbh who killed those people? Russia. When you say Good cop bad cop you mean good cop to the enemy and bad cop to the ally? Russia are the people in the wrong here. Not Ukraine and yes he is favouring the aggressor over the victims. He totally refuses to call Putin anything negative but Zelensky? sure can try and make him look as bad as he can.

 

[Simply Southern]

IMO

That’s not quite how the UK-Ukraine deal works. The 100-year partnership strengthens ties in areas like defense, energy, and technology, but it doesn’t make the UK solely responsible for funding or securing Ukraine. It’s not a mutual defense pact, and it doesn’t mean Ukraine can’t negotiate similar deals with other countries—including the U.S.

As for the minerals deal, Ukraine has been clear: they want security guarantees alongside any economic agreement. That’s why Zelenskyy hesitated—because Trump wouldn’t commit to anything beyond business interests.

More on the UK-Ukraine partnership here: UK Government

What I don't understand.... Why did he announce on X and in the media on Friday he was signing the deal.
His Parliament voted for the deal on Thursday, again wide announcement in the media.

Last week, the PM from the UK and French President met with Trump, did at least two press conferences. At every single press conference Trump went on and own and own as he always does .... there will be no military support from the US. Both of those officials spoke with Zelensky numerous times last week. I don't know why Zelensky would get on a plane and come to the US under the pretense of signing the agreement.

I think it's going to find out quickly. Security agreement is going to be very hard even for the European countries.
Moo

 

[Lilibet]

If you possibly can, watch Rachel Maddow tonight on MSNBC when she describes how…

“Our government now supports Russia against our former allies.”

 

[Simply Southern]

No proof that he was involved with that tbh

The money was provided to Ukraine. They couldn't come up with receipts where it was spent. I posted the article there was an investigation by Ukraine. They admitted they didn't know where the money went and they fired a couple of government officials.
Moo

 

[UK Girl]

What I don't understand.... Why did he announce on X and in the media on Friday he was signing the deal.
His Parliament voted for the deal on Thursday, again wide announcement in the media.

Last week, the PM from the UK and French President met with Trump, did at least two press conferences. At every single press conference Trump went on and own and own as he always does .... there will be no military support from the US. Both of those officials spoke with Zelensky numerous times last week. I don't know why Zelensky would get on a plane and come to the US under the pretense of signing the agreement.

I think it's going to find out quickly. Security agreement is going to be very hard even for the European countries.
Moo

Because it was obvious he was going to sign it before the side show started. It was not about not receiving military support from the US. The problem is its obvious the only thing that matters to Trump is the mineral...not Ukraine. Incidentally it was obvious last Ukraine was not over happy about lack of security all last week but Trump makes out it isnt important. Well yes it is.

The money was provided to Ukraine. They couldn't come up with receipts where it was spent. I posted the article there was an investigation by Ukraine. They admitted they didn't know where the money went and they fired a couple of government officials.
Moo

Exactly - they could not work out where it had gone.

 

[LibraStarr]

Trump is not aligned with Putin. Do they have a relationship? Yes

It was not too long ago, many US companies operated in the Russia. McDonald's, Subway, US Banks, retail stores. Trump was in business, of course he tried to put a hotel there in 2008. He was a potential investor. He had a business relationship, just like the CEOs of McDonald's and Subway and all the other companies that were located in Russia had a relationship with Putin. Does that mean that anybody that's ever done business with Russia is on their side?

Trump's playing good cop bad cop, he's going to try to get a peace deal, or at least was. Looks like Europe's going to take that over.

180 military souls were lost last night in Ukraine. The killing's got to stop.
Moo

Business projects of Donald Trump in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trump isn’t just a businessman—he’s the president, and his actions have consequences beyond “good cop, bad cop” games. Ukraine is fighting for its survival, not negotiating a business deal. And let’s be real—Trump’s relationship with Putin isn’t just about past business ties. He has consistently shown deference to Putin, from questioning NATO’s relevance to casting doubt on U.S. intelligence about Russian interference.

Saying “the killing’s got to stop” without addressing who started it or how to actually end it in a just way ignores reality. Peace isn’t forcing Ukraine to concede its land and sovereignty to a dictator, that’s surrender.

IMO

 

[statt#1]

The gravy train is over. There will be no U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, under T. If the Euro's wish to throw their boys to the gauntlet, so be it. Thus far Z has messed up real bad. He's followed the path and advice of the leftists in the U.S. who have for years wished to destroy T, who will stop at nothing, including the continuation of the slaughter in U, to destroy T, who want nothing more than to see T's peace initiative fail. The left playing politics with the lives of men. It is amazing to me, those factions who scream for more war, those folks who currently are literally totally supportive of throwing those boys to the grinder. What a bloody mess. War is he ll. I guess being removed from it makes it some how ok.

 

[Vern]

...

I know the US spends in addition to NATO funding. I know we spend non related NATO funding for Naval ships and multiple bases, air defence , NORAD (US/Canadian partnership) are a few that come to mind, located within US borders. In times of need, we are able to pull/shift troops and resources from within our internal US resources that would not involve NATO.

RSBM,

Yes other nations spend additional monies. Some of those nations counts those expenditures towards their NATO GDP totals and some do not. The USofA does include those expenditures towards it's NATO GDP.

In Canada, for example, our policing costs, CBSA and Coast Guard costs are not counted towards our NATO GDP as we do not consider them hard-military defence costs. Nor do we count ammunition and gun industry sales to private citizens towards 'defence costs'. Perhaps we should start counting them.

What NATO actually needs if one wants to actually compare apples to apples is to decide upon a standardized format of what does/does not count as an expenditure counting as "NATO GDP Spending".

IMO.

 

[Lucy6226]

President Donald Trump ordered a pause to all military aid to Ukraine, turning up the heat on Volodymyr Zelenskiy just days after an Oval Office blowup with the Ukrainian president left the support of his country’s most important ally in doubt.

The US is pausing all current military aid to Ukraine until Trump determines the country’s leaders demonstrate a good-faith commitment to peace, according to a senior Defense Department official, who asked not to be identified discussing private deliberations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-03/trump-pauses-military-aid-to-ukraine-after-clash-with-zelenskiy?utm_source=twitter&utm_content=business&cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&embedded-checkout=true

So Trump has spat his dummy out. Moo.

At this point it seems that the country who is the victim and was invaded by an agressor is being blackmailed to help the aggressor. Different I guess. I am confused why you think Nato are treading carefully. Neither country are members of Nato. WE promised to help Ukraine if they gave up weapons. Not just that if they overthrow Ukraine they can continue through Europe which is what Europe is trying to stop. After all America has that beautiful ocean between them and Europe. They are not in danger. Yet

That big beautiful ocean that's a lot easier to get across than it was 80 years ago!

I suppose they also think Winston Churchill was the unelected leader of England during WWII.

It says something about a leader and a cause when they have to use propaganda to try to convince people they're right. It's eerie how so much of this is a repetition of Hitler's movement as they took over Germany and invaded Poland. Remember how they convinced everyone that Poland was to blame?

Honestly, it would be ironic if it wasn't so scary.

 

[keek]

If you possibly can, watch Rachel Maddow tonight on MSNBC when she describes how…

“Our government now supports Russia against our former allies.”

We NEED the people to PAY ATTENTION now, they did not before, too many. Shows and whatever need to put things on blast more than ever. Those people though are not atuned to the world around them, just their own. T always made it clear way back, that he admired p very much along with other very undecent people and things.

 

[UK Girl]

The gravy train is over. There will be no U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, under T. If the Euro's wish to throw their boys to the gauntlet, so be it. Thus far Z has messed up real bad. He's followed the path and advice of the leftists in the U.S. who have for years wished to destroy T, who will stop at nothing, including the continuation of the slaughter in U, to destroy T, who want nothing more than to see T's peace initiative fail. The left playing politics with the lives of men. It is amazing to me, those factions who scream for more war, those folks who currently are literally totally supportive of throwing those boys to the grinder. What a bloody mess. War is he ll. I guess being removed from it makes it some how ok.

Thing is if Russia is not stopped..all of Europe can be at risk so personally I would not be removed from it. Zelensky did not invade another country...and his men did not rape and kill thousands of young girls and women the last year or so. He did not steal God knows how many kids either. It isnt about T unless you count the part that he is potentially enabling Putin to take over more countries

 

[Snoopster]

Trump is not aligned with Putin. Do they have a relationship? Yes

It was not too long ago, many US companies operated in the Russia. McDonald's, Subway, US Banks, retail stores. Trump was in business, of course he tried to put a hotel there in 2008. He was a potential investor. He had a business relationship, just like the CEOs of McDonald's and Subway and all the other companies that were located in Russia had a relationship with Putin. Does that mean that anybody that's ever done business with Russia is on their side?

Trump's playing good cop bad cop, he's going to try to get a peace deal, or at least was. Looks like Europe's going to take that over.

180 military souls were lost last night in Ukraine. The killing's got to stop.
Moo

Business projects of Donald Trump in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure I understand you.
Based on what I see, Trump is fighting all of the US allies (democracies) and he is trying to solve the Ukraine invasion of Russia in Russia's favour. That seems like an alignment with Russia, a dictatorship. So much for fighting for democracy. The US voted in the UN with Russia and North Korea. Do you remember the "Axis of Evil"?
Maybe I'm missing something.

The US has twice sided with Russia in votes at the United Nations to mark the third anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, highlighting the Trump administration's change of stance on the war.

First, the US opposed a European-drafted resolution condemning Moscow's actions and supporting Ukraine's territorial integrity - voting the same way as Russia and countries including North Korea and Belarus.

US sides with Russia in UN resolutions on invasion of Ukraine

 

[keek]

So Trump has spat his dummy out. Moo.



That big beautiful ocean that's a lot easier to get across than it was 80 years ago!



Honestly, it would be ironic if it wasn't so scary.

For a minute I wondered which dummy he spat out, then ahhhaaa, British, pacifier in America. Plug as I call it.

 

[UK Girl]

The gravy train is over. There will be no U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, under T. If the Euro's wish to throw their boys to the gauntlet, so be it. Thus far Z has messed up real bad. He's followed the path and advice of the leftists in the U.S. who have for years wished to destroy T, who will stop at nothing, including the continuation of the slaughter in U, to destroy T, who want nothing more than to see T's peace initiative fail. The left playing politics with the lives of men. It is amazing to me, those factions who scream for more war, those folks who currently are literally totally supportive of throwing those boys to the grinder. What a bloody mess. War is he ll. I guess being removed from it makes it some how ok.

Incidentally about gravy train - they are likely to lose more than they gained from America.

 

[Stella123]

The Independent Newspaper today:

"when Donald Trump got furious with Volodymyr Zelensky, it wasn’t just business, it was personal."

"Translated – Trump says he goes way back with Putin to the days when the Kremlin was accused of getting their man, him, into the White House in 2016.

Zelensky, however, is seen by Trump as the disloyal recipient of America’s largesse for failing to open an investigation into Hunter Biden’s business deals in Ukraine in July 2019. Joe Biden was the likely Democrat candidate in the election of 2020."

"Back then, Trump was impeached by congress over his alleged threat to withhold $400m in US military aid to Ukraine unless Zelensky helped with the Biden campaign and other anti-Democrat operations. Trump was cleared by the senate but the damage had been done.

So with Zelensky, it is personal. But Trump’s campaigning against Ukraine has a longer history."

"It is more likely that, for reasons that remain opaque, Trump is either consciously or unconsciously doing what the Kremlin thinks is best. And driving a wedge between the US and Europe.

Putin wants to see an enfeebled West and a fractured Nato. He wants to prise America away."

From Wikipedia:
"The falsehoods about Hunter Biden were spread by possible Russian operatives in the Ukrainian parliament"
Also from a bio of Zelensky

"Zelensky moved past the perception of a comedian-turned-president, mostly known in the Western media before the war through his role in U.S. President Donald Trump’s impeachment at the end of 2019."
From the Vox in 2019

"Earlier this year, President Donald Trump pressed the president of Ukraine to investigate the potential 2020 Democratic nominee, Joe Biden.
This pressure campaign from Trump and his personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, lasted several months, and included both public and private demands on the Ukrainians. Trump also may have tried to punish Ukraine for not complying, including by holding up $400 million in US military aid the country was expecting.
A whistleblower within the US government became concerned about all this, and filed a complaint in mid-August."


Trump hates Zelensky - it's very personal. Explains his long outburst about Hunter Biden, conspiracy and how he and Putin had to go through all this conspiracy theory - during the press conference.
JMO MOO

What really lies behind Trump’s fury with Zelensky – and what it means for Ukraine

‘The Donald’s’ anger with the Ukrainian president in the White House goes beyond the personal, writes world affairs editor Sam Kiley – it shows a global shift in strategy from the US away from Ukraine and towards the Kremlin

www.independent.co.uk

Biden–Ukraine conspiracy theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Who is Volodymyr Zelensky, president of Ukraine?

Volodymyr Zelensky, a former comedian and businessman, rose to global prominence as Ukraine’s wartime president after Feb. 24, 2022.

kyivindependent.com

9 questions about the Trump-Ukraine whistleblower scandal you were too embarrassed to ask

Could it really mean the end of Trump’s presidency?

www.vox.com

 

[HmmMysterious]

The gravy train is over. There will be no U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, under T. If the Euro's wish to throw their boys to the gauntlet, so be it. Thus far Z has messed up real bad. He's followed the path and advice of the leftists in the U.S. who have for years wished to destroy T, who will stop at nothing, including the continuation of the slaughter in U, to destroy T, who want nothing more than to see T's peace initiative fail. The left playing politics with the lives of men. It is amazing to me, those factions who scream for more war, those folks who currently are literally totally supportive of throwing those boys to the grinder. What a bloody mess. War is he ll. I guess being removed from it makes it some how ok.

Ridiculous and unsympathetic to the Ukrainians fighting for their freedom. You didn't even hold Putin accountable here.

 

[branmuffin]

Israel is a NATO Nation. Hamas (GAZA) has limited military capabilities and no nuclear weapons. Hama has few allies, and they have very limited ability. There's little to no risk Hama could attack outside of its boundary.
Moo

Israel is not a member of NATO. It has fostered a close relationship with NATO but it is not a member.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Not sure thats the way it works tbh. I assume that Trump will still do negotiations. Not sure what Z is meant to do but I do know that if I was him I would not go to the White house without other leaders.

Do you really think Trump should still do the negotiations? I’m not so sure about that after all that has transpired. I do believe he’s the only one capable because it takes a strong personality. imo. Is there a European leader on good terms, that would be capable of getting Putin to stop the war permanently? I doubt it. I don’t know if anyone can and now you have an endless war that isn’t sustainable for much longer. There aren’t enough bodies. Now what? You do the best you can. imo

 

[keek]

Why isn't UK threating to attack Russia if those kids aren't returned?

He had babies and children of all ages ripped from their parents arms here, so many never to be found again and reunited. SICK monster is why. Period. If you have a child, let that feeling sink in to your heart. NO excuse ever, inhuman per anyone.