4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[Tricia]

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[gremlin444]

pg 79 Rylene Nowlin, forensic lab manager for ISP testifying as to lab notes/consultation with someone who observed the swabbing of knife sheath:

RN: The entire leather portion of the strap, both top and bottom, and then the underside of the button. I misspoke, she did not swab the top of the button because that was determined to be the most likely place for fingerprints to be found.

Anne Taylor: The underside of the button, was it the part that the sticky-out part would go into, or the sticky-out part, or both?

RN: I can't tell from this. I would have to look at her notes.

-----
So, it's still not clear to me, and I don't think it is to RN, what is meant by "underside of the button." AT seems to think it means specifically the male or female portion of the snap. However, I don't think it rules out meaning that they swabbed under the edges of the "button."

I'm just rather surprised at the imprecision of the language.

 

[gremlin444]

pg 65:

AT is of the opinion that unknown male B--the dried blood on the railing between THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR--is a mixture of male and female, but primarily male. ISP forensic lab manager is not able to corroborate that because she does not recall.

 

[katydid23]

I'd normally not jump to a conclusion like this because the logic is extremely flawed....

But since IMO the defense has shown a tendency to act like "if someone didn't see it how do we know it exists" and their continued framing of DM as a unreliable witness.... DM's statements don't match completely 1:1 with either a) the direction of the footprints or b) the proximity of the footprints to her door (if we want to throw a little conspiracy out there). IMO

So IMO, the implication is that the killer (BK, let's be real) either came extremely close to opening DM's door OR might have left a set of bloody footprints that are pointing in direction of the stairs.

If there's a bloody footprint pointing towards the stairs it means that BK either killed Xana and Ethan first and tracked it upstairs. Or he returned upstars after killing Ethan and Xana 2nd to try and retrieve the sheath. MOO

Actually, that^^ could fit in with the supposed statements by DM that she thought she heard one of her roommates going up the stairs after the man in black left.

Since MM and KG died on a bed I think the chances are much higher that it was mostly Xana and Ethan's blood that was mostly left around the house. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He didnt plan to murder when he bought it, so apparently its source of origin was lost in the mist of time in his mind.

Just a thought - I think BK very well could have been fantasizing and experimenting early on. Why would you order such a lethal weapon (made to kill or seriously incapacitate) and what would he have used it for? He reportedly had a gun for self protection, a knife like that is up front and personal.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder what the new D conspiracies will be now that the whole IGG stuff got shot down. It was all based on the idea BK was fitted up via the IGG.

what now?

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'd normally not jump to a conclusion like this because the logic is extremely flawed....

But since IMO the defense has shown a tendency to act like "if someone didn't see it how do we know it exists" and their continued framing of DM as a unreliable witness.... DM's statements don't match completely 1:1 with either a) the direction of the footprints or b) the proximity of the footprints to her door (if we want to throw a little conspiracy out there). IMO

So IMO, the implication is that the killer (BK, let's be real) either came extremely close to opening DM's door OR might have left a set of bloody footprints that are pointing in direction of the stairs.

If there's a bloody footprint pointing towards the stairs it means that BK either killed Xana and Ethan first and tracked it upstairs. Or he returned upstars after killing Ethan and Xana 2nd to try and retrieve the sheath. MOO

Since MM and KG died on a bed I think the chances are much higher that it was mostly Xana and Ethan's blood that was mostly left around the house. JMO

Just throwing a theory out there - I don't believe it was an obvious bloody' shoe print at DM's door. It was described as a latent shoe print that was found after the initial response by LE, it was by the CSI team after LE had talked with DM. IMO

<snipped & BBM>

The word latent implies that the prints are hidden or not easily seen without help (either chemical, physical, photographic, or electronic development).

The Latent Evidence Section uses more than 40 methods to develop this fragmentary and elusive evidence, a change from just 20 years ago when labs used only four or five methods to develop latent prints.Some methods in use on a daily basis involve magnetic and fluorescent powders, alternate light sources, superglue processing, dye stain techniques, and computerized digital imaging. The goal is to detect and capture a faint and almost nonexistent latent trace of a fingerprint, shoe print, tire print.

https://ncdoj.gov/crime-lab/latent-evidence/

I don't think BK was dripping in blood himself. The wounds inflicted were sharp force to the upper torso area per the local coroner, he would have made those quickly and the profuse bleeding out would have happened after he was long gone.

This would also help explain how BK (wearing a coverall) did not leave DNA in his car, apt. etc. He would have known DNA was enemy #1 in his field of study and prepared accordingly. Except for that darn sheath button.

What if he quickly stripped off his cover all, gloves, shoes and shoe covers?, etc. and changed before he even got back into his car? That would take 2 minutes. Wasn't there a report very early on of a 'naked man' and didn't BF have the bedroom looking out at the parking lot? Maybe I dreamed this part, need more coffee lol. I don't have a MSM article stating this as fact, so it's just my recollection and speculation.

JMO

EBM: Deleted repeat word for clarity

 

[Megnut]

Just throwing a theory out there - I don't believe it was an obvious bloody' shoe print at DM's door. It was described as a latent shoe print that was found after the initial response by LE, it was by the CSI team after LE had talked with DM. IMO

<snipped & BBM>

The word latent implies that the prints are hidden or not easily seen without help (either chemical, physical, photographic, or electronic development).

The Latent Evidence Section uses more than 40 methods to develop this fragmentary and elusive evidence, a change from just 20 years ago when labs used only four or five methods to develop latent prints.Some methods in use on a daily basis involve magnetic and fluorescent powders, alternate light sources, superglue processing, dye stain techniques, and computerized digital imaging. The goal is to detect and capture a faint and almost nonexistent latent trace of a fingerprint, shoe print, tire print.

https://ncdoj.gov/crime-lab/latent-evidence/

I don't think BK was dripping in blood himself. The wounds inflicted were sharp force to the upper torso area per the local coroner, he would have made those quickly and the profuse bleeding out would have happened after he was long gone.

This would also help explain how BK (wearing a coverall) did not leave DNA in his car, apt. etc. He would have known DNA was enemy #1 in his field of study and prepared accordingly. Except for that darn sheath button.

What if he quickly stripped off his cover all, gloves, shoes and shoe covers?, etc. and quickly changed before he even got back into his car? That would take 2 minutes. Wasn't there a report very early on of a 'naked man' and didn't BF have the bedroom looking out at the parking lot? Maybe I dreamed this part, need more coffee lol. I don't have a MSM article stating this as fact, so it's just my recollection and speculation.

JMO

Interesting.

I don't think it's been reported what medium caused the print. I think we may have been assuming a bloody shoeprint. What if instead, the floor itself had a substrate of some sort? Sticky floor from a poor mop job. And that's why there was only one print, no trail, if that's actually the case. Stepped onto something. Really remarkable that LE tested the floor for latent prints.

In truth, we don't know when that print was left. Maybe he paused at her door on his way in. Listened at the door, satisfied no one was awake, and then proceeded upstairs. Or, as he was leaving, he detected movement when DM shut her door, and walked back to it, listened, heard nothing.

Recent disclosure makes it sound even more eerie than I'd previously thought. Almost like he was standing so close he was one with the door. Uncanny if that's how it happened. Survivor and murderer on opposite sides of a door, each questioning their perception.

All I know for sure is I'd be traumatized for life.

JMO

 

[Bahshudc]

I could be wrong here but, in the document, doesn't it only say the footprint wasn't facing the sliding door? I immediately thought this was just the footprint from when BK came into the house and turned right, straight past DM's door, up to KG and MM rooms. Would that work?
JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Yes. Something set him off that week...maybe an expulsion letter from the PhD program? Something tipped the rage.

My feelings are that the expulsion pushed him to act faster than intended as he knew he'd have to leave the state.

There is no evidence I know of BK was expelled from his doctoral program in early Nov. (If anyone saying he was has a link to document a Nov expulsion, please post!) And there's plenty of evidence he wasn't IMO.

Expulsion at the doctoral level very rarely happens and when it does, it's usually for a failure to maintain acceptable grades. (Commonly, earning a second C or a second U will do it. But that can't happen mid-semester the first semester as final grades haven't been assigned.) But if a mid-semester expulsion did happen at the doctoral level, IMO it would have to be for something VERY serious. And IMO if he had engaged in some dangerous actions worthy of an expulsion in early Nov, the school wouldn't have let him continue as a student and as a TA until the end of the semester. And we know he was a TA until the semester ended. We've also seen reference to a letter about his assistantship supposedly sent to him in Dec after he and his father left for PA. He wouldn't have been given such a letter if he'd been expelled in Nov.

"On Dec. 19, the department informed Kohberger that he “had not made progress regarding professionalism” and removed him from his position, the paper reported.

Bryan Kohberger fired as teaching assistant before arrest in student killings

Bryan Kohberger was fired as a teaching assistant at Washington State University after it investigated him for run-ins with a professor and his behavior toward women in the weeks leading up to his …

nypost.com

If he did kill the 4 students, I don't know why he chose that weekend to do it. Maybe something related to his studies did set him off, maybe something related to his TA set him off, maybe something related to an interaction with someone on or off-campus set him off, or maybe he'd always planned to do it then. But I'm close to 100% sure he wasn't told he had been expelled before that weekend.
MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I speculate BK was targeting MM on the basis that KG had departed - she had moved out, left town, taken the dog - therefore he supposed MM was alone in the top part of the house which also no longer had a dog in residence. He was not aware KG had returned for the visit and must have been over confident in thinking he had the situation sussed out. JMO MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Interesting.

I don't think it's been reported what medium caused the print. I think we may have been assuming a bloody shoeprint. What if instead, the floor itself had a substrate of some sort? Sticky floor from a poor mop job. And that's why there was only one print, no trail, if that's actually the case. Stepped onto something. Really remarkable that LE tested the floor for latent prints.

In truth, we don't know when that print was left. Maybe he paused at her door on his way in. Listened at the door, satisfied no one was awake, and then proceeded upstairs. Or, as he was leaving, he detected movement when DM shut her door, and walked back to it, listened, heard nothing.

Recent disclosure makes it sound even more eerie than I'd previously thought. Almost like he was standing so close he was one with the door. Uncanny if that's how it happened. Survivor and murderer on opposite sides of a door, each questioning their perception.

All I know for sure is I'd be traumatized for life.

JMO

They used Amido black to develop it.

That means it was in blood.

Amido black reacts to the proteins in blood, not sticky floor gunge.

MOO

 

[Teche]

Quote:
With that in mind, do we think the state has video that shows the missing front plate? (Was that mentioned in the vehicle identification by FBI expert? - I can't recall if that was just in our conversations).

They knew as soon as they started looking at video footage then turned it over to FBI.

From PCA

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DD driver and boyfriend were ruled out and you can't get up in court and lie to the jury with false allegations. Jury's like DNA evidence, it is the most important evidence to a jury as I have said and linked many times.
DNA samples were taken from many people, even from someone's cigarette. All ruled out. DM gave her statement to LE which can be read in court and confirmed by her. He turned off his cell phone before the crime. Defense would need to prove that it is normal behavior for him to turn off his cell phone in the middle of the night even though they admit he kept his phone on to get countryside and sky photos.

But, cellphone data shows him near the residence on King Road at roughly 9 a.m. on November 13, implying that he returned to the site of the crime mere hours after allegedly killing the four victims at around 4 a.m., according to the affidavit.

The victims had public social media accounts and he could very easily know who they were. He was very good at not transferring blood but then drops his DNA under a victim. The judge will expect evidence for these allegations, it is not a guessing game. It is called DISCOVERY.

Investigators collected a number of things from his residence, including suspected human and animal hair strands, a disposable glove, objects with red and brown stains, and a computer, according to the released records.

Police also obtained samples from Mr. Kohberger’s vehicle and confiscated a shovel, gloves and goggles, a bandage, and a luminous vest.

Idaho Murders: Kaylee Goncalves's pet dog Murphy Goncalves List Amazon | NY Breaking News

The beloved dog of the University of Idaho murdered student Kaylee Goncalves is getting a lot of love from internet followers, and he even has his own Amazon wishlist.

northeasternpost.com

2 cents

Do we know if the animal hair belongs to Murphy?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022125-Transcript-Redacted-hearing-held-Jan23-2025.pdf

“The heart of the prosecution is also the antithesis of the defense,” she said by phone, “and that’s, ‘How do you explain that his DNA was there on this knife sheath?’ So absolutely, bringing in somebody to defend against this critical piece of evidence makes sense.”

Loading…

www.bellinghamherald.com

Investigators were able to match his DNA to genetic material recovered from the sheath of a knife found at the rental home.

Trial set for suspect in killings of 4 Idaho college students. Here's what you need to know

A judge this week declined to throw out key evidence against the man charged in the killings of four University of Idaho students near the campus two years ago.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

Kohberger’s attorneys have their work cut out for them now that Hippler ruled that the knife sheath DNA said to be the defendant’s will be included at trial, he said. But with her addition, Barlow can be expected to lead arguments about the case’s key piece of evidence to convince jurors that the crime scene DNA may not be what it seems, as Simpson’s defense successfully accomplished, Ritter said.

“They have a hell of job ahead of them, because a lot of things have changed over the last 30 years,” he said.

https://www.theolympian.com/news/state/washington/article300738279.html

 

[stemkb]

Contemplating what should be avoided during the open portion of the January 23 hearing, Judge Hippler gives some insight into what may or may not be admissible at trial.

So I think we're generally okay, staying away from some of the specifics that I'm not sure that ultimately would be admissible at trial. Even if I were to say, well, admissible at trial the whole IGG issue -- I'm not sure that's going to be admissible at trial. I suspect the search, the trash pull, is going to be admissible at trial and that genealogic match, allegedly, to Mr. Kohberger's father, as I understand it, and the lack of attempt to figure out I think -- what I'm understanding, at least from the testimony, the attempt to figure out the mixed profile. So I think that's all fine.

 

[Megnut]

They used Amido black to develop it.

That means it was in blood.

Amido black reacts to the proteins in blood, not sticky floor gunge.

MOO

Thank you!!!! I had forgotten about that crucial detail.

I wonder why that one step left an imprint. Don't know that it works that way but it feels like maybe he stood in that place for a half count.

Regardless, it's eerie as heck.

JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I could be wrong here but, in the document, doesn't it only say the footprint wasn't facing the sliding door? I immediately thought this was just the footprint from when BK came into the house and turned right, straight past DM's door, up to KG and MM rooms. Would that work?
JMO

But why would it be bloody?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I speculate BK was targeting MM on the basis that KG had departed - she had moved out, left town, taken the dog - therefore he supposed MM was alone in the top part of the house which also no longer had a dog in residence. He was not aware KG had returned for the visit and must have been over confident in thinking he had the situation sussed out. JMO MOO

Me too, and Kaylee had a new car that she had brought to show Maddie, so he wouldn't have recognised it as her car parked outside either IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Do we know if the animal hair belongs to Murphy?

I'm guessing no.

With a Murphy hair match to add to the DNA he would have to plea bargain for LWOP and they are really paying a ton of Idaho tax money for 3 attorneys so it may really go to trial.

 

[Balthazar]

I see AT raising some of the things others have brough up on this thread:
- No known connection to the house or the people living in the house (that we are aware of)
- No evidence in his car or apartment that links him to the crime
- No cell phone data that shows him near the house during the commission of the crime (curious if Cy R will still testify for the Defense)
- Confuse Jury about DNA evidence (all the back-n-forth we've been going through on this thread)
- Unfortunately, DM"s credibility
- Then, point to other DNA that they did not pursue - could have been DD driver or boyfriend (as others have suggested)

All of these are IMOO and are based on information we are aware of (not speculating on what additional evidence that state will bring forward). With that in mind, do we think the state has video that shows the missing front plate? (Was that mentioned in the vehicle identification by FBI expert? - I can't recall if that was just in our conversations).

In the January 23, 2025 hearing at 6:39 it was established that there is no photo or video image which shows the white Elantra did not have a front license plate. JMO.

All JMO.