4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[Charlot123]

very interesting, his level of interest in his class dropped off noticeably...out of character..a quieting. mOO

To me, because I am not fully convinced it was BK or BK only, this could be explained by relapsing on substances away from home. Less intense, less OCD.

 

[MassGuy]

I think that the item would have others’ DNAs on it. However, the fact that only BK’s DNA was lifted from the sheath and it was touch DNA is a little bit suspicious. Think of the opposite situation, like leaving your pen at the crime scene. It would contain your DNA, but potentially, these of the people in your household, your work, your bank.

Now, just one spot of touch DNA, and only yours, at the place where the pen is usually held, would be suspicious. It is as if someone bothered to remove other potential sources before lifting yours. Or more likely, cleared all and transferred yours on one spot. It is not difficult to do. When did BK buy the knife on Amazon?

Someone can buy exactly the same later.
Technically, handling of such purchase would assume, the sellers’/packagers’ DNA on the sheath.

Then all DNA is removed, period. Isopropyl alcohol, acetone, any strong solvent.

Any of BK’s things he routinely uses (the collar of his clothes, etc) can be a source of DNA.

How is it suspicious? The area that contained DNA was inside the snap of the sheath, basically protected from anything except for intentional contact. It would require pressure to open, which makes it a ripe place to find touch DNA (hence the focus on that area to begin with).

I cited a case a couple weeks ago where law enforcement had a lab swab a victim's pocket, because they knew the killer had to reach in there to remove his wallet. These aren't willy nilly swabs here, as they are areas the killer would have absolutely had to have touched.

 

[mrjitty]

I just don't know how this can be concluded when we've seen so little of the evidence and the investigation after the arrest but that's JMO.

JMO

I agree Wendy.

Even though the Judge just ripped ATs argument down to the studs it feels like we are right back to claiming LE decided to ignore where the evidence was pointing.

But now we know that did not happen. An investigative strand was followed to its conclusion and no one made any jumps.

We simply don’t know what happened about these other samples. Surely the dangers of building huge theories based off one out of context quote should be apparent by now!

MOO

 

[jepop]

I think that the item would have others’ DNAs on it. However, the fact that only BK’s DNA was lifted from the sheath and it was touch DNA is a little bit suspicious. Think of the opposite situation, like leaving your pen at the crime scene. It would contain your DNA, but potentially, these of the people in your household, your work, your bank.

Now, just one spot of touch DNA, and only yours, at the place where the pen is usually held, would be suspicious. It is as if someone bothered to remove other potential sources before lifting yours. Or more likely, cleared all and transferred yours on one spot. It is not difficult to do. When did BK buy the knife on Amazon?

Someone can buy exactly the same later.
Technically, handling of such purchase would assume, the sellers’/packagers’ DNA on the sheath.

Then all DNA is removed, period. Isopropyl alcohol, acetone, any strong solvent.

Any of BK’s things he routinely uses (the collar of his clothes, etc) can be a source of DNA.

As the 23rd Jan transcript shows, there was blood on the sheathe. Moo it's logical to assume this was swabbed and tested and came back to one or possibly both of the upstairs victims. So I think, strictly speaking, your assertion is incorrect . Also it's neither suspicious or surprising to me that no other unknown suspect DNA was found on the sheathe ( body, strap or snap). Imo all that points to is that BK very, very very likely handled the sheathe himself and opened it with an ungloved hand at some point. He never allowed anyone else to handle his knife sheathe. So what? By all accounts he was a bit of a loner, not surprising. Jmo

 

[Charlot123]

How is it suspicious? The area that contained DNA was inside the snap of the sheath, basically protected from anything except for intentional contact. It would require pressure to open, which makes it a ripe place to find touch DNA (hence the focus on that area to begin with).

I cited a case a couple weeks ago where law enforcement had a lab swab a victim's pocket, because they knew the killer had to reach in there to remove his wallet. These aren't willy nilly swabs here, as they are areas the killer would have absolutely had to have touched.

True. What concerns me is not his DNA there, it is too little of his DNA and on one spot. Everyone explains that he took a lot of precautions, gloves, shaves, whatnot. Strange that he did not think of a knife. And if he did not, there should have been another DNAs there.

This was a party house. Should have been full of DNA. Yet everything is either degraded or non-existing.

Mind you, I am not saying that BK is absolutely clean. I think he was going to ID, but for another reason. Buying drugs from one of the suppliers nearby, whatnot. But he is “almost too convenient” of a murderer. And, I am absolutely sure he didn’t act alone. JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

As the 23rd Jan transcript shows, there was blood on the sheathe. Moo it's logical to assume this was swabbed and tested and came back to one or possibly both of the upstairs victims. So I think, strictly speaking, your assertion is incorrect . Also it's neither suspicious or surprising to me that no other unknown suspect DNA was found on the sheathe ( body, strap or snap). Imo all that points to is that BK very, very very likely handled the sheathe himself and opened it with an ungloved hand at some point. He never allowed anyone else to handle his knife sheathe. So what? By all accounts he was a bit of a loner, not surprising. Jmo

i speculated that blood would have been on the sheath. So once again a theory that was never based on verfiable fact turns out to be a load of nonsense.

Also a lot of blood can make other DNA unrecoverable.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

True. What concerns me is not his DNA there, it is too little of his DNA and on one spot. Everyone explains that he took a lot of precautions, gloves, shaves, whatnot. Strange that he did not think of a knife. And if he did not, there should have been another DNAs there.

This was a party house. Should have been full of DNA. Yet everything is either degraded or non-existing.

Mind you, I am not saying that BK is absolutely clean. I think he was going to ID, but for another reason. Buying drugs from one of the suppliers nearby, whatnot. But he is “almost too convenient” of a murderer. And, I am absolutely sure he didn’t act alone. JMO.

why do you say the house was not “full of DNA?”. i think this is a misunderstanding of what investigators look for.

 

[mrjitty]

It’s worth remembering that unidentifiable DNA found elsewhere in the house does not create reasonable doubt wrt to BK.

 

[MassGuy]

True. What concerns me is not his DNA there, it is too little of his DNA and on one spot. Everyone explains that he took a lot of precautions, gloves, shaves, whatnot. Strange that he did not think of a knife. And if he did not, there should have been another DNAs there.

This was a party house. Should have been full of DNA. Yet everything is either degraded or non-existing.

Mind you, I am not saying that BK is absolutely clean. I think he was going to ID, but for another reason. Buying drugs from one of the suppliers nearby, whatnot. But he is “almost too convenient” of a murderer. And, I am absolutely sure he didn’t act alone. JMO.

Just focusing on the last part. If this was a movie, yes, he'd be too convenient; this is real life though. I'm positive he acted alone, because killers like this always act alone. I think it's clear the motive was about power, control, and a hatred of women.

I believe he was a TA because he enjoyed that power. I believe he was a security guard for the same reason. This was just another example of that pathological need. What did he do with the power in his TA position? He abused it. He graded women more harshly, he argued with his professor, and he ultimately got fired for it. There are accounts of him being condescending to a female classmate, and even following another one to her car.

I believe this crime was a deeply personal one, and good luck finding someone to help you with that. Especially considering there was absolutely no need for a partner, and no evidence of a partner (it surely would have been discovered in his communications, etc).

I would literally bet my life that not only is BK the killer, but he acted completely alone.

 

[mrjitty]

As we've previously discussed, the blood on the rail and the glove is NOT evidence of a killer. Not at all! And you don't know what isn't leaked, what is held close to the vest about the knife purchases. Investigations are held open up to the point of trial and even during I recently heard someone in LE say.

agreed. nothing links these to the murders. What do they prove? What inference do they support?

AT will want us to believe true DNA belongs to the real killers but that is wild speculation. There is no evidence the DNA has anything to do with the crime. Nor does it create reasonable doubt.

 

[jepop]

Just focusing on the last part. If this was a movie, yes, he'd be too convenient; this is real life though. I'm positive he acted alone, because killers like this always act alone. I think it's clear the motive was about power, control, and a hatred of women.

I believe he was a TA because he enjoyed that power. I believe he was a security guard for the same reason. This was just another example of that pathological need. What did he do with the power in his TA position? He abused it. He graded women more harshly, he argued with his professor, and he ultimately got fired for it. There are accounts of him being condescending to a female classmate, and even following another one to her car.

I believe this crime was a deeply personal one, and good luck finding someone to help you with that. Especially considering there was absolutely no need for a partner, and no evidence of a partner (it surely would have been discovered in his communications, etc).

I would literally bet my life that not only is BK the killer, but he acted completely alone.

I'm totally convinced he acted alone. I have faith in the investigation, it was chock a block full of competent, experienced investigators. Very well resourced. If BK didn't act alone we would know it imo.

It's only in the movies that a suspect sits mum for 26 months and doesn't mention an accomplice or try to pin it on this hypothetical accomplice. No accomplice has been identified and moo investigators found no evidence of an accomplice. Big, fat, waddling duck; there is no accomplice. Moo

 

[mrjitty]

as a thought experiment keep all facts of the case the same except BK dropped his drivers license at the scene.

Does the unknown blood still prove anything?

why not?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm sorry this but this picture of the incredible shrinking BK makes me bust out laughing. Soon enough all you will be able to see is his little pen head and his coiffed eyebrows. Who do they think they are fooling?

AT loves 'word salad' delivered in her special indignant whispery voice. She has had to do some major overhaul with her presentation style to get past Judge Hipss, the man is a beast on details and she has not been used to that from JJJ. (even though I still like him, I'm glad chose to remove himself from the case).

JMO

He's probably losing a lot of weight. Probably iron deficiency. He was probably low to start with and now he's possibly off the charts. There's no way he'd be getting the right nutrients and the correct iron in prison unless he's allowed to purchase high quality supplements. The weight would just fall off him and he'd become extremely thin and pale and have other symptoms, severe symptoms.

If the prosecution want him to be alive and well and answer to his crimes they should probably get his bloods checked and have him treated if nec. JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He's probably losing a lot of weight. Probably iron deficiency. He was probably low to start with and now he's possibly off the charts. There's no way he'd be getting the right nutrients and the correct iron in prison unless he's allowed to purchase high quality supplements. The weight would just fall off him and he'd become extremely thin and pale and have other symptoms, severe symptoms.

If the prosecution want him to be alive and well and answer to his crimes they should probably get his bloods checked and have him treated if nec. JMO

Sorry, I should have made my post more clear. I wasn't referring to BK's weight. I was speaking to actual height of his chair at the Defense table. It has been considerably lower in these last hearings.

I have no doubt TPTB are keeping tabs on BK's physical health. He is a self proclaimed Vegan, I'm sure that is probably limiting his diet options. This has nothing to do with the Prosecution, it's not their job to monitor BK's physical health. That is the responsibility of the DOC and his Defense Team if they feel his physical well being is in jeopardy.

Myself, I think BK is trying to look as 'unalike' as the perp DM described as possible, but it could just be coincidence.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

It's also worth thinking through how proof works in investigations, because I believe an army of law tubers are trying to sell a bill of goods on various cases.

IMO;

First law enforcement tries to generate probable cause on one of more lines of investigation. A key idea here is that developing PC will tend to suggest you have the right theory, whereas on the wrong theory, PC will not tend to develop. PC is a low bar, and enables other steps like search warrants or even arrest. At this stage the existence of alts and other theories does not matter. LE may develop different lines independently or sequentially.

Second comes charging. That is a higher standard. The exact wording varies country to country but in general the prosecutor must gauge that she or he has a good chance of success. But the key point is that a high suspicion has arisen against the defendant. In our case we now have a high degree of visibility in to how that played out.

It's at this point that judicial oversight kicks in. Generally there has to be a case to answer.

The key point here is that there is nothing here, IMO, that requires the prosecution to rule out every speculative possibility. It will be up to the defence to establish things like unknown DNA as real possibilities that raise actual doubt. A mere additional killer won't be doubt. It would have to raise doubt that BK was actually involved.

Can AT do that at trial? I guess we'll start to get some idea in the evidential hearings. I am sceptical but let's see!

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Just focusing on the last part. If this was a movie, yes, he'd be too convenient; this is real life though. I'm positive he acted alone, because killers like this always act alone. I think it's clear the motive was about power, control, and a hatred of women.

I believe he was a TA because he enjoyed that power. I believe he was a security guard for the same reason. This was just another example of that pathological need. What did he do with the power in his TA position? He abused it. He graded women more harshly, he argued with his professor, and he ultimately got fired for it. There are accounts of him being condescending to a female classmate, and even following another one to her car.

I believe this crime was a deeply personal one, and good luck finding someone to help you with that. Especially considering there was absolutely no need for a partner, and no evidence of a partner (it surely would have been discovered in his communications, etc).

I would literally bet my life that not only is BK the killer, but he acted completely alone.

I can imagine how a person of his type could get thoughts and dreams of control and dominance sitting for years in a vacuum. Two things, however: first, there is zero connection between him and the victims. (Whatever they say about IG I don’t put much value on.) Second, out of two potential witnesses, only one is seen. (One wants to ask, if he is a random loner from PA, why the fear?) It is like, the house was not in the vacuum, there should have been tons of witnesses, and yet, all depends on DM and touch DNA.

However, this being said, with all my doubts, I won’t be surprised if in course of the trial it will turn out to be a more straightforward case. Some others that have just finished or might be eventually reviewed raise more questions.

 

[iamshadow21]

I can imagine how a person of his type could get thoughts and dreams of control and dominance sitting for years in a vacuum. Two things, however: first, there is zero connection between him and the victims. (Whatever they say about IG I don’t put much value on.) Second, out of two potential witnesses, only one is seen. (One wants to ask, if he is a random loner from PA, why the fear?) It is like, the house was not in the vacuum, there should have been tons of witnesses, and yet, all depends on DM and touch DNA.

However, this being said, with all my doubts, I won’t be surprised if in course of the trial it will turn out to be a more straightforward case. Some others that have just finished or might be eventually reviewed raise more questions.

Why should there be tons of witnesses? In a dark house of sleeping people, in the early hours of the morning, in a residential area, in the middle of winter? When a big chunk of the student population had already left for the holidays?

The perpetrator didn't bust in the door with a shotgun while people were wakeful and going about their day. He crept in when he was least likely to run into anyone awake, inside or outside, with a weapon that was close to silent.

MOO

 

[SpiderFalcon]

first, there is zero connection between him and the victims.

There is a HUGE connection between him and the victims, and it does not equal ZERO.

 

[Charlot123]

There is a HUGE connection between him and the victims, and it does not equal ZERO.

Is it something that I have missed?

 

[Charlot123]

Why should there be tons of witnesses? In a dark house of sleeping people, in the early hours of the morning, in a residential area, in the middle of winter? When a big chunk of the student population had already left for the holidays?

The perpetrator didn't bust in the door with a shotgun while people were wakeful and going about their day. He crept in when he was least likely to run into anyone awake, inside or outside, with a weapon that was close to silent.

MOO

Lots of information on the YouTube and people in the houses around reported partying and being up all night. It was a weekend in a University town.