4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[mickey2942]

Where I live, putting your trash in your neighbor's bins is not unusual. Our HOA limits the amount of trash and so, if you have extra, you put it in your neighbor's bin IF there is room, if you are friends with them and it causes them no hardship. Nothing unusual or weird about it.

So funny, I do the same thing. I also routinely take over size boxes to the dump, other stuff that doesn't fit into the trash bin. Huge black, heavy contractor bags, with yard stuff, or leftover bits from parties. Who knew it could be weird and suspicious?!

 

[katydid23]

Where I live, putting your trash in your neighbor's bins is not unusual. Our HOA limits the amount of trash and so, if you have extra, you put it in your neighbor's bin IF there is room, if you are friends with them and it causes them no hardship. Nothing unusual or weird about it.

He was separating his own trash from his family member's trash. It was not about trash limits or being neighbourly.

It is most certainly weird and odd to put on plastic gloves and separate your personal trash from the family garbage bins and place yours in little baggies and then sneak around after dark, placing them in the neighbours bins.

The only motive that makes sense to me, is that he didn't want his personal trash to be in the family garbage cans, to prevent LE from attaining his DNA. IMO

 

[katydid23]

So funny, I do the same thing. I also routinely take over size boxes to the dump, other stuff that doesn't fit into the trash bin. Huge black, heavy contractor bags, with yard stuff, or leftover bits from parties. Who knew it could be weird and suspicious?!

I've done the same thing. But I didn't separate the leftover party trash by taking out anything that was mine personally, by wearing gloves and putting mine into little plastic baggies, and placing just those baggies into the neighbours cans.

 

[Charlot123]

You seem to be disagreeing with me while agreeing with everything I said.

I might not disagree with you specifically. It is not about disagreeing. Too often I would read, “my child is autistic, and he is the kindest kid ever, not a killer like this guy.” This is when I start thinking along the same line, that “autism” has become a wastebasket, compiling potentially different conditions. I see several problems here: 1) with the diagnosis being known, “incel-like behavior” might be projected on the nicest people, who, if anything, need to be protected from the society, not vise versa; 2) vulnerable and gullible people with autistic features might be “set up” as the perfect fall guys (it might have happened here, if indeed a different group planned the execution); 3) a tiny group of people with autism, a minority, may, indeed, harbor murderous thoughts, but perhaps, in them, something else is at play (comorbid mood disorder/seizures/psychosis/PD). In other words, such cases are seldom due to autism alone, but DP is the worst way to deal with them; surely science has better approaches to study?

I was saying that BK should be judged on his actual ability to gauge the effects of his actions and his understanding of the rules of acceptable behaviour and morality and the law. Regardless of if he is autistic or has low or high empathy.

He shouldn't just be able to say 'but autism!' if he knew exactly what he was doing and what it meant. That's not what those laws are for. Those laws are to prevent intellectually and developmentally disabled people who don't have a clear understanding of the consequences of their actions from being executed. The same reason we don't execute children. The punishment is unfair if the subject can't grasp what is happening and why.

The same, potentially, might apply to putting them in general prison population. Honestly, DP or not, depends on the state, not the IQ or developmental delay. Otis Toole had IQ of 75 and Joachim Kroll, 72. That they were not executed was IMHO, California in one case and Germany, in the other. In many cases comorbid diagnoses are quite likely. On the other hand, even developmentally disabled murderers might be deadly dangerous and the society needs to be protected from them. While I suspect that they have a certain concept of wrongdoing, IMHO, what really works against them is horrible impulsivity and frontal lobes dysfunction. Something better than gen-pop should be available.

BK does not fit into this category. He is highly intelligent and can confirm to the rules of society when he chooses. He, if responsible, planned this crime and executed it in such a way that shows he was trying to achieve what he did and get away with it. That's very different to a case of an individual who couldn't gauge that their actions could bring great harm, or couldn't understand that their actions might be illegal.

MOO

To be quite honest, we don’t know his full medical history. Exopthalmos is too severe not to pay attention to it. In this context, “visual snow”, his presenting complaint a while ago, may be relevant. I don’t know if DM is reliable witness or whether she remembers events of that night at all, but if she does and BK, indeed, didn’t notice her, then something might be wrong with his vision, or vision fields.

It is a complex case, so when asking myself, what am I seeing?”, I don’t get a strong intuitive feeling. Autism might be just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Charlot123]

Who is going to frame BK and get his DNA and rub it only on the snap of the knife sheath that just happens to be under the murder victim? How is there no evidence of any other intruder, but the witness description and all the other circumstantial evidence- car, cell phone off, etc. all point to him???

There might be evidence of an intruder/s but in a house with so many visitors, who knows?

 

[Charlot123]

Did Kohlberger's parents live in an HOA? If not, that theory is out the window.

Not necessarily. Towns often set up fee for garbage removal: flat fee, per volume or per weight. Per volume is where you might agree to occasionally “redistribute” thrash in the neighborhood.

 

[katydid23]

Not necessarily. Towns often set up fee for garbage removal: flat fee, per volume or per weight. Per volume is where you might agree to occasionally “redistribute” thrash in the neighborhood.

He did not put his trash in others bins because of a fee or weight limit. He did so to prevent LE from getting his own personal trash. He didnt place trash from his family members into the neighbours bins. Just his own personal baggies of trash. IMO

 

[iamshadow21]

I might not disagree with you specifically. It is not about disagreeing. Too often I would read, “my child is autistic, and he is the kindest kid ever, not a killer like this guy.” This is when I start thinking along the same line, that “autism” has become a wastebasket, compiling potentially different conditions. I see several problems here: 1) with the diagnosis being known, “incel-like behavior” might be projected on the nicest people, who, if anything, need to be protected from the society, not vise versa; 2) vulnerable and gullible people with autistic features might be “set up” as the perfect fall guys (it might have happened here, if indeed a different group planned the execution); 3) a tiny group of people with autism, a minority, may, indeed, harbor murderous thoughts, but perhaps, in them, something else is at play (comorbid mood disorder/seizures/psychosis/PD). In other words, such cases are seldom due to autism alone, but DP is the worst way to deal with them; surely science has better approaches to study?



The same, potentially, might apply to putting them in general prison population. Honestly, DP or not, depends on the state, not the IQ or developmental delay. Otis Toole had IQ of 75 and Joachim Kroll, 72. That they were not executed was IMHO, California in one case and Germany, in the other. In many cases comorbid diagnoses are quite likely. On the other hand, even developmentally disabled murderers might be deadly dangerous and the society needs to be protected from them. While I suspect that they have a certain concept of wrongdoing, IMHO, what really works against them is horrible impulsivity and frontal lobes dysfunction. Something better than gen-pop should be available.


To be quite honest, we don’t know his full medical history. Exopthalmos is too severe not to pay attention to it. In this context, “visual snow”, his presenting complaint a while ago, may be relevant. I don’t know if DM is reliable witness or whether she remembers events of that night at all, but if she does and BK, indeed, didn’t notice her, then something might be wrong with his vision, or vision fields.

It is a complex case, so when asking myself, what am I seeing?”, I don’t get a strong intuitive feeling. Autism might be just the tip of the iceberg.

Whereas I hope they have a great examiner doing his exam that is used to interviewing violent, manipulative offenders, who can tell the difference between autism and personality disorders.

I think this angle stinks to high heaven. I think it's all about defense strategy saving him from the threat of the death penalty, and nothing to do with genuine mitigating conditions.

Give them five more minutes and they're going to wheel out Dorothy Otnow Lewis, like they did for Letecia Stauch.

MOO

 

[jepop]

but I'm not sure how AT can claim BK didn't go east when, at 4:48am, his phone started reporting to the network again near Blaine and is tracked traveling west toward Pullman. This is only a half hour after the murders.

The 8458 Phone does not report to the network again until approximately 4:48 a.m. at which time it utilized cellular resources that provide coverage to ID state highway 95 south of Moscow, ID near Blaine, ID (north of Genesee). Between 4:50 a.m. and 5:26 a.m., the phone utilizes cellular resources that are consistent with the 8458 Phone traveling south on ID state highway 95 to Genesee, ID, then traveling west towards Uniontown, ID, and then north back into Pullman, WA. At approximately 5:30 a.m., the 8458 Phone is utilizing resources that provide coverage to Pullman, WA and consistent with the phone traveling back to the Kohberger Residence

In the alibi response she says this, but I can't recall what she specifically has said in court:

Mr. Kohberger intends to offer testimony of Sy Ray, CSLI expert, (cell tower, cell phone and other radio frequency, curricula vitae is attached) to show that Bryan Kohberger’s mobile device was south of Pullman, Washington and west of Moscow, Idaho on November 13, 2022; that Bryan Kohberger’s mobile device did not travel east on the Moscow-Pullman Highway in the early morning hours of November 13th, and thus could not be the vehicle captured on video along the Moscow-Pullman highway near Floyd’s Cannabis shop.

JMO

https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2023/01/122922-Affidavit-Exhibit-A-Statement-of-Brett-Payne.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR29-22-2805/2024/041724-Notice-Defendants-Supplemental-Response-States-AD.pdf

RSB for focus. Exactly @wendy44

That's why I think it's going to be even harder for any alibi defense to explain how BK turned up where he did at c4.50am. It makes much better sense that he came to be there from the north ( Moscow) via snow road. The timing's about right.

If he was south-west of Pullman or in Wawawi park at the crucial time, how does he turn up travelling on 95, 20 mins south of Moscow half an hour post crime?

I think zero footage has been uncovered to show BK left Pullman via a southerly route. Moo he didn't do it via Bishop Boulevarde or Johnston road. There are cameras there which picked him up on his return trip (after 5am). My guess; there is no other footage on 195 South Pullman to support BK going that way at approx 2.50/3am.

I can't see any cell phone activity or cameras as being witness to BK's, as it stands, ambiguous 'alibi'.

As to how he got to Moscow Indian Hills drive by about 3.25am.; I don't think he could have taken a southerly then easterly route, undetected by cameras. Though it's possible the P has more video captures for his arrival and route into Moscow, the court filings seem to suggest this probably isn't the case. But time wise there is simply insufficient time for him to be cruising south west of Moscow near WaWawi for instance after leaving Pullman at 2.50am and be on Indian Hills Drive at 3.25ish.

The two routes I think BK took to get to Indian Hills Drive by 3.25am are either North of the hwy, past airport, then cross 95 north of Moscow and take the back Streets south;

or east on the highway then turn south onto Sunshine road. This second route is far more convoluted and unlikely in my opinion, because when he hits Palouse Drive, he then has to cross Main Street/ hwy 95 to get to Indian Hills and there are cameras there that were part of the canvas imo. All speculation.

 

[Charlot123]

He did not put his trash in others bins because of a fee or weight limit. He did so to prevent LE from getting his own personal trash. He didnt place trash from his family members into the neighbours bins. Just his own personal baggies of trash. IMO

While one might agree that the behavior is strange, we miss information to interpret it. For example, if he used to do it before WA due to his OCD, then it is not a new behavior.

If it is a new behavior, then it is concerning. I would also like to know what was in that thrash.

What is strange, though. BK knew enough about DNA and could well understand that potentially hiding his own was useless. Say, gathering thrash from four other household members (a dad to touch DNA, a mom to touch DNA, two sisters to touch DNA) would point at him as the owner of touch DNA. Bolting would have been more efficient than hiding own DNA among neighbors’ ones. Did he bring something related to murder from WA and was hastily getting rid of it? Not improbable.

The simplest explanation could be: BK had relapsed, didn’t want his parents to know and was hiding drug paraphernalia from his parents.

Which btw is what I strongly suspect. Whatever happened, had to do with the fact that for the first time in his life, at the age of 28, he moved out of parents’ house. What do we see when this man starts living an “adult life”? 1) His social skills are abysmal. He alienated all his students. He didn’t develop any support group. Being TA must have been stressful. 2) JMO. I am almost positive that he relapsed. My only question used to be, if it was a heavy drug, he probably couldn’t stop it cold turkey, so how did he conceal the use from his parents upon returning back? Probably, by keeping garbage with “clues” in his room and then, putting it into neighbors bins the night before the collection day.

In this context, not his behavior but the contents of the neighbors bins would be interesting. What was there: syringes, some mementos from the crime scene or something totally different?

 

[mrjitty]

He did not put his trash in others bins because of a fee or weight limit. He did so to prevent LE from getting his own personal trash. He didnt place trash from his family members into the neighbours bins. Just his own personal baggies of trash. IMO

Yes. It will require quite some explanation.

I realise it's fun to speculate - my favourite passtime as well, but it's worth remembering speculation doesn't fly in Court. Someone has to give admissible evidence. So in this case, the prosecution will no doubt have a witness to the gloves, separate bagging and suspicious distribution to the neighbours bins.

Who can testify about why BK was carrying out such elaborate garbage disposal? Only BK in my view.

So while AT might be able to suggest explanations in her cross, it will actually be difficult to speculate away this evidence at trial, unless the defendant tells us why he did this.

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Eventually, the FBI “admitted they had uploaded to MyHeritage” – a database off-limits to law enforcement, Larkin said, citing a document shared with the court.

But Goncalves’ family expressed relief that the judge did not suppress the genetic genealogy evidence.

“We are thankful to the Court for a timely decision and appreciate the work [the] prosecution has put in thus far,” the family posted on Facebook last week.

“In the big picture of life, justice is just moments away.”

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/25/us/bryan-kohberger-hearing-idaho-students-stabbing/index.html

I think S Goncalves is speaking here to "In the big picture" as the State having much more evidence against BK than we the public are aware of.

Bye Bye Bye Bry.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Can't the prosecution just hold up a picture of him with bushy eyebrows?

Yes LOL BK's DMV photo and his initial arrest booking photo show the very distinct, dominate, woolly bushy eyebrows. The State could show these pics and subsequent pics showing how they (Defense & BK) have coiffed those lately.

JMO

 

[LinasK]

Exactly. If I'm thinking about killing someone, am I seriously going to be deterred because of the death penalty? Like, "life in prison is fine, but the death penalty is a bridge too far."

He had every intention of getting away with this, and that takes an incredible degree of arrogance. The fact that he was incredibly close to doing just that, notwithstanding.

Casey Anthony came out against the Death Penalty- but I think she was already a suspect.

 

[iamshadow21]

Yes LOL BK's DMV photo and his initial arrest booking photo show the very distinct, dominate, woolly bushy eyebrows. The State could show these pics and subsequent pics showing how they (Defense & BK) have coiffed those lately.

JMO

I don't think they're ever allowed to show booking photos to juries. It's like showing a defendant in prison clothes or shackles.

MOO

 

[LinasK]

I wonder how many degrees of separation he tried to create. Dummy accounts. Gift card vs credit card purchases. Aliases.

For all his advanced knowledge, he botched just about every step.

Purchase the murder weapon on Amazon.
Wear distinctive-soled shoes.
Wear coveralls you purchased, save the tag.
Drive a vehicle with an obvious missing front plate.
Bring your phone along. Flip it to airplane mode midway.
Enter the house when occupants are awake and moving around.
Leave your DNA on the bed.
Lose your job.
Get caught separating your personal trash from your family's.

Winning strategy.

JMO

Could have been worse actually. Could have bought the knife on surveillance camera at Walmart, as so many of these stupid criminals do.

 

[LinasK]

I don't think they're ever allowed to show booking photos to juries. It's like showing a defendant in prison clothes or shackles.

MOO

But his driver's license or any other photo of him is admissible.

 

[girlhasnoname]

He wasn’t planning on getting caught, so I doubt that ever entered his mind.

Agreed, and I still believe he was specifically targeting that house and one or more of the victims.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

RSB for focus. Exactly @wendy44

That's why I think it's going to be even harder for any alibi defense to explain how BK turned up where he did at c4.50am. It makes much better sense that he came to be there from the north ( Moscow) via snow road. The timing's about right.

If he was south-west of Pullman or in Wawawi park at the crucial time, how does he turn up travelling on 95, 20 mins south of Moscow half an hour post crime?

I think zero footage has been uncovered to show BK left Pullman via a southerly route. Moo he didn't do it via Bishop Boulevarde or Johnston road. There are cameras there which picked him up on his return trip (after 5am). My guess; there is no other footage on 195 South Pullman to support BK going that way at approx 2.50/3am.

I can't see any cell phone activity or cameras as being witness to BK's, as it stands, ambiguous 'alibi'.

As to how he got to Moscow Indian Hills drive by about 3.25am.; I don't think he could have taken a southerly then easterly route, undetected by cameras. Though it's possible the P has more video captures for his arrival and route into Moscow, the court filings seem to suggest this probably isn't the case. But time wise there is simply insufficient time for him to be cruising south west of Moscow near WaWawi for instance after leaving Pullman at 2.50am and be on Indian Hills Drive at 3.25ish.

The two routes I think BK took to get to Indian Hills Drive by 3.25am are either North of the hwy, past airport, then cross 95 north of Moscow and take the back Streets south;

or east on the highway then turn south onto Sunshine road. This second route is far more convoluted and unlikely in my opinion, because when he hits Palouse Drive, he then has to cross Main Street/ hwy 95 to get to Indian Hills and there are cameras there that were part of the canvas imo. All speculation.

Interesting.

This reinforces my hunch that they won't run an alibi. Too much risk that it sets up a beauty competition between two versions where their's is the weaker.

Better to try to poke holes in the state case after it all gets presented, IMO

 

[LinasK]

Not necessarily. Towns often set up fee for garbage removal: flat fee, per volume or per weight. Per volume is where you might agree to occasionally “redistribute” thrash in the neighborhood.

That's something that can be easily verified in his parent's neighborhood. If it's not applicable, that theory goes out the window.