4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[Dotta]

'Amid a flurry of new court filings in recent days,
Kohberger’s defense filed a motion
‘to Strike the Death Penalty
Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder'.

In support, the legal team
also filed a motion seeking to
‘Redact or Seal Newly Filed Records'."

Bryan Kohberger's autism bombshell as families push for firing squad

Attorneys for University of Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger filed a new motion to 'Strike the Death Penalty Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[imstilla.grandma]

When asked if he had been following the news about his daughter’s accused killer possibly facing the firing squad, he told NewsNation last week: ‘I don’t follow it. I help make it.

'I’m talking to some of these individuals in the state of Idaho. We’re definitely being out there.’

‘I'll be that person to stand in front of the camera and drum up some support,’ he said.

He added: ‘There's no reason to have capital punishment if this isn't the case for it.'

Pictured: the firing squad chair in the execution chamber at the Utah State Prison

Bryan Kohberger's autism bombshell as families push for firing squad

Attorneys for University of Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger filed a new motion to 'Strike the Death Penalty Re: Autism Spectrum Disorder'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[StarryStarryNight]

OK. DNA that we are talking about is not a tiny strand under a microscope. For DNA testing, it is extracted from nucleated cells. To get DNA, you have to have source of nucleated cells - blood, saliva, epithelium of the oral mucosa, sweat if it contains shed skin cells, hair roots. Seldom would touch DNA come from just one cell; “touch” like a fingerprint contains shed epithelial cells, sweat and sebum (another potential source of DNA).

So if you use biometrics on your phone, you can leave DNA on the screen. Theoretically, someone who doesn’t like you can take your cell phone (not touching the screen) and rub the screen against something (including the button of the sheath) where people want to leave your incriminating DNA. They can steal your worn T-shirt and rub the collar against the same button of the sheath.

<modsnip - off topic>

So I made notes. It was a little bit strange after that to not hear anbout any murderer’s DNA on the crime scene but, the case was closed.

But, if you subscribe to the theory, it is hard to let go. If DNA can be even transferred from one person to another and they are not in direct contact, which I btw, fully believe can happen, then the same fact could be used as a counter argument against “BK’s touch DNA on a sheath button irrefutably proves that he was the killer.” Maybe there will be a wealth of another information during the trial - as I have said, I am split about “BK’s the killer” theory but not against it. If anything, I just can’t believe that he worked alone, that’s all. But…maybe.

Mostly, you just can’t ardently persuade the public why touch DNA is irrelevant in one case and then assume they will forget, you know?

It matters where the DNA is found.
<modsnip - response to snipped post>
In Idaho the DNA was inside, in a bedroom, on a bed, under a stabbing victim, on a knife sheath.
Two entirely different scenarios.

 

[Megnut]

I think he possibly loves the optics of being represented by her.

He's a student, he knows how this works. He's studied crime and criminals and trials, he knows the value of having a beautiful blonde woman representing him, saying that he couldn't possibly hurt anyone, when two of the people he's charged with killing are beautiful blonde women.

The PR and the image massaging began the moment she took the case. Women who work as defense attorneys for men accused of violent crimes against women know that simply by standing at their client's side, they're forming an impression in a juror's mind. It cannot be understated how powerful a tool that can be.

MOO

I agree totally. I just don't like it one bit.

JMO

 

[Bahshudc]

In regards to the "Not to mention the 2014 cell phone incident" referenced in these recent motions, doesn't it most likely relate to this?

Bryan Kohberger has secret arrest record from 2014: report

Idaho student murders suspect Bryan Kohberger had a 2014 arrest for stealing from his own sister, as his dad told police about struggles with drug addiction, according to a new report.

www.fox13seattle.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Where I live, putting your trash in your neighbor's bins is not unusual. Our HOA limits the amount of trash and so, if you have extra, you put it in your neighbor's bin IF there is room, if you are friends with them and it causes them no hardship. Nothing unusual or weird about it.

This is not an HOA neighborhood.
I would be shocked if I saw my neighbors adding their trash to ours. There would be zero reasons for them to be doing that.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Interesting.

This reinforces my hunch that they won't run an alibi. Too much risk that it sets up a beauty competition between two versions where their's is the weaker.

Better to try to poke holes in the state case after it all gets presented, IMO

In my opinion, they don’t even have an alibi now.

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree totally. I just don't like it one bit.

JMO

It's a part of the theatre of a public justice system.

I acknowledge that it's there. It's not offensive to me in itself, it all depends on how it's played out.

It's not as egregious to me as dirty mean tactics like slandering a victim or harrying an innocent witness or grieving family member. There's nothing honourable about that.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

2.2 % of the US adult population is diagnosed with autism, (just under 6 million) while murders occur at a rate of 0.00005. (20,000 a year) Autism is not a contributing factor.

OK. DNA that we are talking about is not a tiny strand under a microscope. For DNA testing, it is extracted from nucleated cells. To get DNA, you have to have source of nucleated cells - blood, saliva, epithelium of the oral mucosa, sweat if it contains shed skin cells, hair roots. Seldom would touch DNA come from just one cell; “touch” like a fingerprint contains shed epithelial cells, sweat and sebum (another potential source of DNA).

So if you use biometrics on your phone, you can leave DNA on the screen. Theoretically, someone who doesn’t like you can take your cell phone (not touching the screen) and rub the screen against something (including the button of the sheath) where people want to leave your incriminating DNA. They can steal your worn T-shirt and rub the collar against the same button of the sheath.
<modsnip - off topic>

So I made notes. It was a little bit strange after that to not hear anbout any murderer’s DNA on the crime scene but, the case was closed.

But, if you subscribe to the theory, it is hard to let go. If DNA can be even transferred from one person to another and they are not in direct contact, which I btw, fully believe can happen, then the same fact could be used as a counter argument against “BK’s touch DNA on a sheath button irrefutably proves that he was the killer.” Maybe there will be a wealth of another information during the trial - as I have said, I am split about “BK’s the killer” theory but not against it. If anything, I just can’t believe that he worked alone, that’s all. But…maybe.

Mostly, you just can’t ardently persuade the public why touch DNA is irrelevant in one case and then assume they will forget, you know?

<modsnip - response to snipped post>

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"One, that's a big jump to go from (an alleged) non-violent theft -- and from a family member -- to being charged with multiple homicides. And two, eight years is a long time for nothing to happen," Frankel said. "So, I would want to know, both as a prosecutor and as the investigator, what he did in those years in between?"

ABC News contributor Robert Boyce, the retired chief of detectives for the New York City Police Department, said, "What you look for now, is, was this a foundational moment, and was this a precursor for things to come."

Bryan Kohberger, Idaho murders suspect, first arrested in 2014, records show

"You want to get all the puzzle pieces figured out."

abc7.com

 

[SteveP]

This is not an HOA neighborhood.
I would be shocked if I saw my neighbors adding their trash to ours. There would be zero reasons for them to be doing that.

I'm not that "hey, you kids get off of my lawn" guy, but if I found out my neighbors were putting their trash into my bin, at least without specifically asking first, we would soon be having a little chat. I do not know if it is the case where BK's parents live, but we have private companies doing trash collection in my neighborhood. I pay to have my trash collected, not my neighbor's. JMO

 

[Boxer]

I'm not that "hey, you kids get off of my lawn" guy, but if I found out my neighbors were putting their trash into my bin, at least without specifically asking first, we would soon be having a little chat. I do not know if it is the case where BK's parents live, but we have private companies doing trash collection in my neighborhood. I pay to have my trash collected, not my neighbor's. JMO

The lots are quite large, meaning its a bit creepy and tresspassy to be on your neighbors property in the night in any case.

 

[KentuckyMama]

I'm not that "hey, you kids get off of my lawn" guy, but if I found out my neighbors were putting their trash into my bin, at least without specifically asking first, we would soon be having a little chat. I do not know if it is the case where BK's parents live, but we have private companies doing trash collection in my neighborhood. I pay to have my trash collected, not my neighbor's. JMO

I feel exactly this way.. If I saw someone trying to put trash in my cans, there would definitely be something said. The cans are kept behind the garage and barn until trash day when they are wheeled to the road. Even out there on the road I wouldn't just let it go. Just a few years back there was a bit of a dust up in my town about dog walkers dropping their dogs "bagged gifts" into peoples trash while out on their walk so they didn't have to carry it home. LE even had officers show up to the neighborhood meetings to make sure it was known.... That's not okay. We pay for our own trash pickup individually here. Its not a gift from the city trash fairy where all bins are okay to use.

Also...I just noticed your avatar. It seems you too, have good taste in dogs.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Erin Murphy, a law professor at New York University who focuses on DNA and new policing methods, said she was surprised that the FBI might have violated rules that the federal government had spent so much time working to establish. She was also concerned that investigators seemingly had no repercussions for doing so.

“I think what we are teaching law enforcement is that the rules have no meaning,” she said.

Steve Kramer, a former FBI lawyer who has specialized in genetic genealogy investigations, said the rules were designed as a framework, not a legal limitation. They can help guide typical investigative work, he said, but when it comes to a serious case where other investigative options are limited, such as the Idaho case, investigators may need to take additional steps.

“We’ll never know, thank God, what Bryan Kohberger would have done had he not been caught,” he said.

To identify suspect in Idaho killings, FBI used restricted consumer DNA data

The case has shown the promise and the unregulated power of genetic technology in an era in which millions of people willingly contribute their DNA profiles to recreational databases, often to hunt for relatives.

www.thestar.com.my

 

[Arkay]

I'm not that "hey, you kids get off of my lawn" guy, but if I found out my neighbors were putting their trash into my bin, at least without specifically asking first, we would soon be having a little chat. I do not know if it is the case where BK's parents live, but we have private companies doing trash collection in my neighborhood. I pay to have my trash collected, not my neighbor's. JMO

I feel exactly this way.. If I saw someone trying to put trash in my cans, there would definitely be something said. The cans are kept behind the garage and barn until trash day when they are wheeled to the road. Even out there on the road I wouldn't just let it go. Just a few years back there was a bit of a dust up in my town about dog walkers dropping their dogs "bagged gifts" into peoples trash while out on their walk so they didn't have to carry it home. LE even had officers show up to the neighborhood meetings to make sure it was known.... That's not okay. We pay for our own trash pickup individually here. Its not a gift from the city trash fairy where all bins are okay to use.

I live in a high-rise apartment building in NYC, so trash collection is different here, but I’ve plenty of family and friends who live in private homes.

It would be an outrage for someone to take their trash and hop on over to throw it in their neighbor’s garbage can without some good reason and permission from the neighbor.

But IMO that’s a moot point. It appears to me that BK took elaborate steps to isolate his garbage from his family’s, PRECISELY to avoid his DNA being collected for identification.

Particularly under cover of darkness, in the middle of the night.

Mr. Wanna-be Dr. of Criminology knows DNA is the key to his house of cards collapsing.

IMO we can conjure up all kinds of theories about someone else nefariously and magically hoisting BK’s microscopic DNA, while somehow not leaving behind any trace of their own in this process, and secreting it in an obscure but vital spot on a knife sheath, beneath the body of a woman who was knifed to death.

I would doubt this as a juror because to me these actions are beyond reasonable.

One theory here is a linear connection of the dots. The other theory requires an upside-down, inside-out, convoluted pretzel twisting of what is logical.

JMO

 

[minazoe]

I live in a high-rise apartment building in NYC, so trash collection is different here, but I’ve plenty of family and friends who live in private homes.

It would be an outrage for someone to take their trash and hop on over to throw it in their neighbor’s garbage can without some good reason and permission from the neighbor.

But IMO that’s a moot point. It appears to me that BK took elaborate steps to isolate his garbage from his family’s, PRECISELY to avoid his DNA being collected for identification.

Particularly under cover of darkness, in the middle of the night.

Mr. Wanna-be Dr. of Criminology knows DNA is the key to his house of cards collapsing.

IMO we can conjure up all kinds of theories about someone else nefariously and magically hoisting BK’s microscopic DNA, while somehow not leaving behind any trace of their own in this process, and secreting it in an obscure but vital spot on a knife sheath, beneath the body of a woman who was knifed to death.

I would doubt this as a juror because to me these actions are beyond reasonable.

One theory here is a linear connection of the dots. The other theory requires an upside-down, inside-out, pretzel twisting of what is logical.

JMO

he knows he has lost the sheath forever and he knows where he left it, as time passes..paranoia creeps in..his DNA is now the enemy..he knows his miscalculation..panic sets in. mOO

 

[Tragg]

You seem to be disagreeing with me while agreeing with everything I said.

I was saying that BK should be judged on his actual ability to gauge the effects of his actions and his understanding of the rules of acceptable behaviour and morality and the law. Regardless of if he is autistic or has low or high empathy.

He shouldn't just be able to say 'but autism!' if he knew exactly what he was doing and what it meant. That's not what those laws are for. Those laws are to prevent intellectually and developmentally disabled people who don't have a clear understanding of the consequences of their actions from being executed. The same reason we don't execute children. The punishment is unfair if the subject can't grasp what is happening and why.

BK does not fit into this category. He is highly intelligent and can confirm to the rules of society when he chooses. He, if responsible, planned this crime and executed it in such a way that shows he was trying to achieve what he did and get away with it. That's very different to a case of an individual who couldn't gauge that their actions could bring great harm, or couldn't understand that their actions might be illegal.

MOO

I think it would be outrageous to suggest that autism is a causal factor in any murder. There is no scientific evidence to suggest this. Autism is a spectrum disorder, which means that a wide variety of symptoms can be associated with the diagnosis. However, lack of empathy is not a symptom of autism, full stop. No true expert would testify to this. Rather, it's a symptom of psychopathy - and the defense would not want to go there for obvious reasons.

I agree it seems likely that the defense team is trying to use a diagnosis of autism to do two things: first, to set up an argument at trial that one or more of BK's autism symptoms diminish his capacity to form the mental state or "mens rea" that is an element of the first degree murder charge; and second, to claim that BK's particular symptoms are "mitigating factors" under Idaho's death penalty law, that would make it unjust or even unconstitutional to impose the penalty.

Frankly, I cannot fathom how a diagnosis of autism could support these arguments. But if the defense team hopes to be successful they will need very solid testimony from a well-respected expert to support them.

 

[KentuckyMama]

I live in a high-rise apartment building in NYC, so trash collection is different here, but I’ve plenty of family and friends who live in private homes.

It would be an outrage for someone to take their trash and hop on over to throw it in their neighbor’s garbage can without some good reason and permission from the neighbor.

But IMO that’s a moot point. It appears to me that BK took elaborate steps to isolate his garbage from his family’s, PRECISELY to avoid his DNA being collected for identification.

Particularly under cover of darkness, in the middle of the night.

Mr. Wanna-be Dr. of Criminology knows DNA is the key to his house of cards collapsing.

IMO we can conjure up all kinds of theories about someone else nefariously and magically hoisting BK’s microscopic DNA, while somehow not leaving behind any trace of their own in this process, and secreting it in an obscure but vital spot on a knife sheath, beneath the body of a woman who was knifed to death.

I would doubt this as a juror because to me these actions are beyond reasonable.

One theory here is a linear connection of the dots. The other theory requires an upside-down, inside-out, pretzel twisting of what is logical.

JMO

My thoughts are that he already felt that he was suspected or would be. Why else bother with such nonsense? All he did was make himself appear more....unstable and suspicious.

Also.......a high rise??? I felt my heart speed up just a bit by reading those words. Heights alone don't bother me but claustrophobia is a big issue. And fires. And sink holes. My list of unlikely but horrifying ends. The closest I get to big city is a Dr I see every 6 months in Nashville. I feel so.....closed in there. But I envy your views from up high. My youngest wants to go to the Manhattan School of Music after high school. Now I can say I talked to a big city human today!

 

[mrjitty]

It matters where the DNA is found.
In Delphi, the DNA found was at a crime scene that was outside and scattered.
In Idaho the DNA was inside, in a bedroom, on a bed, under a stabbing victim, on a knife sheath.
Two entirely different scenarios.

Yes we are talking about orders of probability.

For instance, it should be no surprise that a siblings DNA and hair would be found at a crime scene when sibling and victim live in the same household, share clothes and were together just minutes before the murder. Ergo, this does not in any way "prove" that the sibling was ever at the crime scene, because the vector for transportation is apparent

That is in no way similar to this case, where the DNA of an entirely unconnected person is found effectively on the murder weapon, with no obvious way for it to have been transferred/transported by an intermediary.

 

[Boxer]

I think it would be outrageous to suggest that autism is a causal factor in any murder. There is no scientific evidence to suggest this. Autism is a spectrum disorder, which means that a wide variety of symptoms can be associated with the diagnosis. However, lack of empathy is not a symptom of autism, full stop. No true expert would testify to this. Rather, it's a symptom of psychopathy - and the defense would not want to go there for obvious reasons.

I agree it seems likely that the defense team is trying to use a diagnosis of autism to do two things: first, to set up an argument at trial that one or more of BK's autism symptoms diminish his capacity to form the mental state or "mens rea" that is an element of the first degree murder charge; and second, to claim that BK's particular symptoms are "mitigating factors" under Idaho's death penalty law, that would make it unjust or even unconstitutional to impose the penalty.

Frankly, I cannot fathom how a diagnosis of autism could support these arguments. But if the defense team hopes to be successful they will need very solid testimony from a well-respected expert to support them.

Spaghetti. Every concievable excuse at one time on pasta thrown at a wall.