4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[MassGuy]

Just thinking about DM's phone activity that night. I wonder if she called the victims while the killer was still there, and if those phone calls scared him. This would explain why he didn't kill DM or BF.

 

[Megnut]

Just thinking about DM's phone activity that night. I wonder if she called the victims while the killer was still there, and if those phone calls scared him. This would explain why he didn't kill DM or BF.

I posted upthread, looks like DM didn't start calling until 4:19. And I think BK would have been outside already.

JMO

911 call transcript, surviving roommates' texts detail night of University of Idaho student murders

The documents show two of the surviving roommates discussing the alleged appearance of a masked man leaving the house where four University of Idaho students were found fatally stabbed.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Megnut]

He may have returned, long enough to listen at DM's door, but he was driving away at 4:20 iirc... so I'm not sure whether DM's call featured in his departure.

Curious to know if they had their phones on silent/ringer.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I think the “other” side/the criticism comes from some not understanding the “they were so scared, they went to sleep”. Maybe it’s that they fell asleep from exhaustion, but if you went to bed terrified I would think you may also wake up with similar feelings. And if that’s the case, would you then call for help after waking back up and realizing you only fell asleep because you were so exhausted? I’m not sure.

The text messages and phone calls they made after the woke up, before they decided to eventually call 911, unfortunately IMOO don’t help the criticism of them “waiting”. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just pointing out why I think there’s such criticism regarding this one aspect.

I could not disagree with you more.
These young people deserve zero criticism.
How easy to do that when you are looking from a completely detached position with the advantage of hindsight, with no emotional attachment to anyone involved.
They were in the middle of it, living it as it happened. I think more likely they fell asleep from exhaustion and assuring each other things will be OK when they wake up.

 

[jepop]

It surprised me that not one of them screamed or was able to scream as they were being attacked.

I’m wondering if went straight for the throat so they couldn’t scream.

Imo they were ambushed whilst sleepy and winding down, after busy nights out. I think MM, KG and probably EC were all in bed. KG and MM may have been fully asleep or if not, then in the latter stages of dozing off. Maybe EC too.

Confronted and trapped, completely unexpectedly by a masked intruder, dressed in black and wielding that horrific knife, I imagine the shock and confusion would be severe. Imo BK murdered these kids in a matter of minutes. I imagine all energy would have gone into the futile struggle for life. Screaming takes energy away from that struggle. Jmo

Also as I understand it, an eight (?) inch k-bar in the hands of someone intent on killing, would be capable of inflicting massive damage very quickly, rendering the victims pretty much immediately helpless. Jmo.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm a 6'2" 200lbs grown adult. I can barely look at a scraped knee.

I don't think it stretches the imagination that these kids knew something horrible happened and none of them wanted to discover their friends in a horrible state.

Not really.
But can DM be even used as a witness, given her issues?

 

[DizzyB]

Do you think that the girls went upstairs at all in the morning? Or did they text and call friends and ask them to enter the house and check?

 

[MTW2011]

I could not disagree with you more.
These young people deserve zero criticism.
How easy to do that when you are looking from a completely detached position with the advantage of hindsight, with no emotional attachment to anyone involved.
They were in the middle of it, living it as it happened. I think more likely they fell asleep from exhaustion and assuring each other things will be OK when they wake up.

1. I did not say that was my criticism, I was merely presenting the “other” side.
2. Yes of course they were in the middle of it, that’s exactly what the State is arguing and also what their own messages appear to show.
3. it does appear they likely fell asleep from exhaustion, and also that even after awaking they felt things were not OK. At that time they still did not call 911. That’s not really criticism of what they did (or didn’t do), that’s merely an account of the facts set forth by the state.

The State is the one claiming that the surviving roommates “personally perceived” that Kernodle was “unconscious” and that has left room for some questions about what that means and how they may have not seen any obvious blood or injuries. Asking about what they saw and when isn’t criticism of any of the surviving roommates or the two friends, so please don’t attack the messenger for posing some questions. Thank you.

 

[Turpin.Wilt]

I shared a similar link earlier, but here is a direct link to view all of the records that the courts have made public in this case. FYI

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger

 

[SteveP]

I could not disagree with you more.
These young people deserve zero criticism.
How easy to do that when you are looking from a completely detached position with the advantage of hindsight, with no emotional attachment to anyone involved.
They were in the middle of it, living it as it happened. I think more likely they fell asleep from exhaustion and assuring each other things will be OK when they wake up.

I agree that DM and BF do not deserve criticism from anyone. What DM especially, and BF experienced, in those first few moments after 4am was the stuff of Stephen King horror novels on steroids. DM hearing noises upstairs that she thought was perhaps KG playing with Murphy, then telling BF about seeing a shadowy figure in black with mask outside her door, DM texting KG to ask what was going on, and getting no answer from anyone, DM admitting that she was freaking out, and BF trying to calm her, telling her to run downstairs to her room, where they likely tried to rationalize what surely was not what wild imaginations might lead them to believe, before finally falling to sleep, only to wake some 7 hours later, to what must have been an eerily quiet house of 6 people. Had any tv's or music been on during that time? We have heard nothing to indicate that there would have been any sounds other than perhaps the sounds of DM frantically attempting to call and text any of the roommates upstairs, and getting no responses, after surely noticing that her text from the night to KG had not been replied to. Then, and probably only then, did it probably hit DM and BF that something was terribly wrong, and a call was made to Ethan's friend or brother to come over, followed shortly after by the discovery and 9-1-1 call.

I will not pass judgement on anything those terrified young people did, or did not do, given the nightmare they endured that night, and have likely endured over and over again since that dreadful night. JMO

 

[Bahshudc]

I could not disagree with you more.
These young people deserve zero criticism.
How easy to do that when you are looking from a completely detached position with the advantage of hindsight, with no emotional attachment to anyone involved.
They were in the middle of it, living it as it happened. I think more likely they fell asleep from exhaustion and assuring each other things will be OK when they wake up.

Don’t think the original poster was claiming they deserved criticism, but rather explaining why there is so much vilifying of these victims online. I’ve seen a lot of criticism towards DM and BF and think we can all agree it’s disgusting and unnecessary, but I think it’s fair to discuss the reasons WHY people think like that. Moo.

 

[SteveP]

Not really.
But can DM be even used as a witness, given her issues?

Absolutely she can, must, and will be. Any "issues" she may have will or will not be taken into consideration by the jury, as they deem fit.

 

[Swansee]

I agree with the G's attorney. How hard would it have been for BT's office to give the family's a head's up about the document release?

I have a feeling the State's relationship with the G family is not so great, and they are keeping them at arms length if not more. Unfortunately this now impacts all the victims' families.

We saw the State's motion to limit the presence of relatives in the courtroom to the strict immediate family members. IMO this was directly aimed at the G's, who had planned to attend with a large cohort of assorted cousins, aunts uncles nieces and nephews, in-laws, friends of the family etc.
The G's plan to descend upon Boise en masse and "raise awareness" about the case among the public could be perceived as jury tampering, and I believe the State wants to avoid anything that could provide yet more appellate fodder.
Remember also the issues with Steve G making claims of having contact with a GJ juror through a PI, I don't think that sat too well with the State. Also those shirts some relatives wore to a previous hearing...
The tension seems to be reciprocal with the G reserving the right to sue the State if errors on their part result in a failure to convict.

I'm not saying any of this is right at all, but it's just my personal impression that the relationship is rocky, and the State may feel like not communicating with the G's. Obviously I could be completely wrong.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I could not disagree with you more.
These young people deserve zero criticism.
How easy to do that when you are looking from a completely detached position with the advantage of hindsight, with no emotional attachment to anyone involved.
They were in the middle of it, living it as it happened. I think more likely they fell asleep from exhaustion and assuring each other things will be OK when they wake up.

So agree. The very last thing that would cross a young college girl's mind is that there may be some raging psycho killer in the house murdering her friends. It just doesn't make sense to me, even as an adult, how would it to DM?

DM thought KG was playing with the dog and when she peeked out of her door to yell at them to hold it down the first 2 times, she didn't see or hear anything that would have lead her to believe that was going on. On her last look was when she saw BK and that is what caused her enough unease to head down to BF's room. Maybe she thought one of the girls had a late night visitor over? A quadruple murder of her dear roommates wasn't crossing her mind.

If DM or BF thought something so vicious was happening, they would not have just gone back to sleep. They would have called hauled it out of there and called 911.

To insinuate anything differently is victim blaming I agree. Those girls have suffered something we cannot fathom and will have terrifying memories of it for the rest of their lives IMO. Can you imagine their horror and feelings of guilt once they actually learned what had happened?? They are victims of BK as well and deserve our sympathy and non judgement.

JMO

 

[vls12345]

This ends all debate as to the veracity of DM’s overall account. She sees the man clad in black, frantically calls the phones of her murdered roomates, describes what she saw to BF (other surviving roommate), and heads to her room.

This is crucial information in firming up the time of the murders, at least for our purposes.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/022425-REDACTED-States-Motion-inLimine-RE-Text-Messages-Testimiony.pdf

View attachment 568681View attachment 568682

IMO - Has anyone else read the redacted text messages between DM & BF early on the morning of the murder? They seem to suggest BF saw someone too & it was clear from the messages they were both freaked out. After reading the messages, it is completely unclear why they didn’t call 911. MOO

It is puzzling but I think there are people who get freaked out a lot and it always turns out to be over nothing. So that is how I read the conversation. Freaking out while also not really believing that this time it was over something real.

IMO - My biggest question was always, why didn’t they call 911? Lots of excuses were made on why they didn’t, however, reading those text messages shows they were frightened & my biggest question still remains unanswered. After reading the text messages, it makes even less sense to me, 2 x frightened girls hearing strange things, one of them seeing someone in all black wearing a ski mask in their home, text messages showing they were freaking out, but not enough to call 911?? Even after all this time, I still find that one aspect of this case unfathomable to understand. I associate zero blame on them, it’s just something I simply cannot understand. MOO.

Holy cow, those text messages.

I'm pages behind so I'm sure that someone else has opined as to why they may not have called 911. I can totally see why young adults like them might not have called 911: they were drunk or otherwise impaired so didn't want to "out" themselves or just didn't think of it as an option, college coeds from a "party" house might not be believed or taken seriously by 911, possibly previous bad interactions with LE, their brains protecting them from really believing that 911 needs to be called/the hope that the daylight hours would make everything seem "normal" again & that the roommates would start answering their texts & have some kind of explanation for the weirdness of the overnight hours, etc. Also if they would have called, they would have been asked what was wrong, perhaps asked to go look more so they could provide more info & I don't think DM or BF wanted to leave the safety of their room. Perhaps factors like being on the spectrum played a part (100% supposition on my part), which is not something we do know nor have the right to know.

I think that in times of extreme emergency, there are plenty of people who don't think to call 911. They freeze (so don't call 911 for that reason) or flee (which DM did to BF's room). Sometimes fight. But 911 is not everyone's first or even second reaction, imo.

I think they were so totally hoping there was some explanation (that they couldn't see at the time) that they waited & waited to hear from their other roommates.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

MOO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not really.
But can DM be even used as a witness, given her issues?

What 'issues' are those? Of course DM will be able to testify to what she saw and heard. Plus, we know now of the text evidence between her and BF.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

while the delay in calling 911 is a minor oddity in the case i don’t really see that it will be a focus at trial. It doesn’t speak to the witnesses testimony. Maybe the defence try to use it to try to attack her credibility but given the texts corroborate her testimony so strongly i don’t see the significance.

 

[mrjitty]

What 'issues' are those? Of course DM will be able to testify to what she saw and heard. Plus, we know now of the text evidence between her and BF.

MOO

Agree. what we don’t know is how the witness will do on the stand. My guess is the jury will cut a lot of slack. Afterall it is not disputed she witnessed a quadruple murder and came close to the killer as well.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Holy cow, those text messages.

I'm pages behind so I'm sure that someone else has opined as to why they may not have called 911. I can totally see why young adults like them might not have called 911: they were drunk or otherwise impaired so didn't want to "out" themselves or just didn't think of it as an option, college coeds from a "party" house might not be believed or taken seriously by 911, possibly previous bad interactions with LE, their brains protecting them from really believing that 911 needs to be called/the hope that the daylight hours would make everything seem "normal" again & that the roommates would start answering their texts & have some kind of explanation for the weirdness of the overnight hours, etc. Also if they would have called, they would have been asked what was wrong, perhaps asked to go look more so they could provide more info & I don't think DM or BF wanted to leave the safety of their room. Perhaps factors like being on the spectrum played a part (100% supposition on my part), which is not something we do know nor have the right to know.

I think that in times of extreme emergency, there are plenty of people who don't think to call 911. They freeze (so don't call 911 for that reason) or flee (which DM did to BF's room). Sometimes fight. But 911 is not everyone's first or even second reaction, imo.

I think they were so totally hoping there was some explanation (that they couldn't see at the time) that they waited & waited to hear from their other roommates.

Absolutely heartbreaking.

MOO.

Yes, it's truly the stuff of nightmares. It's sad that it is now the reality for DM and BF and all of the families of Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan. I cannot imagine what they've gone and will continue to go through.

MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

jsut food for thought and from no expert in this type of thing but it maybe the case there was little external signs of bleeding. easy to think knife wounds leave a very messy scene but i dont think so. penetrating wounds may bleed mostly internally especially if the main point of blood exiting the arterial system is deep, for instance a knife to the heart, the ehart is so central in the body the blood would have to go past so many different tissues and then exit the skin that it may not do so and i imagine the way the wound is facing would make a difference as well. so if the wound is in the chest but the victim falls on their back the gravitational pull is towards the back rather than the entrance wound so would not be external. its different if the main wound is close to the skin such as the femoral or jugular artery. it may also be true that wounds can self seal and prevent any blood leaking from the wound.

I don't think they released any details on the types of wound right? other than stabbing.