4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[MTW2011]

Don’t think the original poster was claiming they deserved criticism, but rather explaining why there is so much vilifying of these victims online. I’ve seen a lot of criticism towards DM and BF and think we can all agree it’s disgusting and unnecessary, but I think it’s fair to discuss the reasons WHY people think like that. Moo.

Thank you, that is ONLY what I was trying to explain. I’m glad at least someone was able to understand my intent.

 

[iamshadow21]

jsut food for thought and from no expert in this type of thing but it maybe the case there was little external signs of bleeding. easy to think knife wounds leave a very messy scene but i dont think so. penetrating wounds may bleed mostly internally especially if the main point of blood exiting the arterial system is deep, for instance a knife to the heart, the ehart is so central in the body the blood would have to go past so many different tissues and then exit the skin that it may not do so and i imagine the way the wound is facing would make a difference as well. so if the wound is in the chest but the victim falls on their back the gravitational pull is towards the back rather than the entrance wound so would not be external. its different if the main wound is close to the skin such as the femoral or jugular artery. it may also be true that wounds can self seal and prevent any blood leaking from the wound.

I don't think they released any details on the types of wound right? other than stabbing.

The scene was described as 'very traumatic' for first responders.

Given the suspected weapon, the fact that the victims were savagely attacked and killed in a matter of minutes, and at least one had defensive wounds, I don't think it's a reach to assume that the scene was very bloody.

MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

The scene was described as 'very traumatic' for first responders.

Given the suspected weapon, the fact that the victims were savagely attacked and killed in a matter of minutes, and at least one had defensive wounds, I don't think it's a reach to assume that the scene was very bloody.

MOO

it would be very traumatic for anyone to see and the first responders were aware ahead of time that they were dealing with at least one person who wasn't breathing. I would also presume that the first responders knew how to look for wounds and other to find four people all dead would make anyone weep but that doesnt neccesarily mean it was a blood bath. may also depend on the colour of the rooms stuff ie red duvet or carpet etc im just judging from the friends reactions and him not gauging immediately what had happened. don't get me wrong the scene was more probably a bloodbath but its not guaranteed. its also worthy to note the first responder says "i think we have a homicide" not "we have a homicide".

if you walk into room with blood everywhere you without a doubt immediately panic, i did once. my dogs had chewed a portion of their tales off and their was blood literally everywhere, the tails wagging had left it on the white walls the white duvet the pillows and on them even with them sitting their wagging away. i immediately recognised it was a serious wt mega f situation. the dogs were fine just so you know, apparently they do that sometimes when stressed.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I find it almost unbelievable that there is no mention of blood if it is there in any of the coms especially to the 911 dispatcher. You would report that.

 

[Ghostwheel]

SBM

I find it almost unbelievable that there is no mention of blood if it is there in any of the coms especially to the 911 dispatcher. You would report that.

The last thing I saw in the 911 call was just "I think we have a homicide" I'm sure there was more amongst the first responders after that, just not in the 911 call. The 911 dispatcher leaves the conversation and hangs up when there is someone on site who can help the caller.

 

[Sweeper2000]

The last thing I saw in the 911 call was just "I think we have a homicide" I'm sure there was more amongst the first responders after that, just not in the 911 call. The 911 dispatcher leaves the conversation and hangs up when there is someone on site who can help the caller.

i was thinking you would describe a bloody scene if that was the case, "my friend isn't breathing and there is blood everywhere" and then the first responder saying "i think we have" suggests an element of doubt right?

 

[wendy44]

I think another thing to keep in mind is that this roommate group had only lived together for a few months and seems to have been somewhat cobbled together to fill all six rooms. They weren't a strong friend group who had done everything together since freshman year and were very familiar with each other when they moved in. Reactions and responses may be very different when you know people well and have lived together a while versus being new roommates.
JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

i was thinking you would describe a bloody scene if that was the case, "my friend isn't breathing and there is blood everywhere" and then the first responder saying "i think we have" suggests an element of doubt right?

There's been more than one case related on the threads in the last few days of surviving people thinking a person was passed out or unresponsive for other reasons and not seeing the blood right in front of them because of the brain protecting them, until help arrived. Then they realised there was blood everywhere.

MOO

 

[Vaderman]

So agree. The very last thing that would cross a young college girl's mind is that there may be some raging psycho killer in the house murdering her friends. It just doesn't make sense to me, even as an adult, how would it to DM?

DM thought KG was playing with the dog and when she peeked out of her door to yell at them to hold it down the first 2 times, she didn't see or hear anything that would have lead her to believe that was going on. On her last look was when she saw BK and that is what caused her enough unease to head down to BF's room. Maybe she thought one of the girls had a late night visitor over? A quadruple murder of her dear roommates wasn't crossing her mind.

If DM or BF thought something so vicious was happening, they would not have just gone back to sleep. They would have called hauled it out of there and called 911.

To insinuate anything differently is victim blaming I agree. Those girls have suffered something we cannot fathom and will have terrifying memories of it for the rest of their lives IMO. Can you imagine their horror and feelings of guilt once they actually learned what had happened?? They are victims of BK as well and deserve our sympathy and non judgement.

JMO

Also to add from my own college experience: I lived in a co-ed dorm. Drunk college girls can get into highly charged, emotional fights resulting in screaming and other commotions. You learn to tune it out.

In my experience, hearing a commotion and possible screaming on a weekend night/early morning would lead me to believe someone was drunkenly fighting over something, not being viciously slaughtered.

 

[Betty P]

Pardon the question if its already been answered, but has anything been reported on whether there were lights on in any of the rooms? I recall DM said it was dark where she was. Was there any other ambient light? A bathroom light left on? Light from an outside street lamp?

The swiftness of the attacks makes me wonder how well BK was able to see. TIA

 

[Sweeper2000]

There's been more than one case related on the threads in the last few days of surviving people thinking a person was passed out or unresponsive for other reasons and not seeing the blood right in front of them because of the brain protecting them, until help arrived. Then they realised there was blood everywhere.

MOO

you know if ther is more details due to be released? with so many people in the room and after realising she wasn't breathing I don't believe you would miss lots of blood assuming it was lots. i'm more leaning towards there not being that much blood tbh. we know the wounds were to the chest area so may not have bled that much. jmo

 

[Ghostwheel]

i was thinking you would describe a bloody scene if that was the case, "my friend isn't breathing and there is blood everywhere" and then the first responder saying "i think we have" suggests an element of doubt right?

IMO, you might or might not. I don't find it unusual not to mention it, nor would I find it unusual if someone had said "I see blood" or "There is blood everywhere!" People react differently, some go outward hysterical and some turn inward quiet to process what they don't want to know or believe. Again, depends on what they saw at first sight. If I assume legs out of a bathroom door and little blood to the immediate eye, but not moving or responding to calls, that would be different than walking into a bedroom with the walls covered in blood. From the texts and the 911 call, DM at least did not seem like a person who would go running in to see what she didn't really want to know. JMO, though.

 

[Ghostwheel]

you know if ther is more details due to be released? with so many people in the room and after realising she wasn't breathing I don't believe you would miss lots of blood assuming it was lots. i'm more leaning towards there not being that much blood tbh. we know the wounds were to the chest area so may not have bled that much. jmo

There were plenty of reports of "blood everywhere", but that is a subjective phrase. Was it everywhere in the rooms? in the hall? in the living room? What does "everywhere" entail?

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

 

[Sweeper2000]

There were plenty of reports of "blood everywhere", but that is a subjective phrase. Was it everywhere in the rooms? in the hall? in the living room? What does "everywhere" entail?

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

right thankyou. sorry i don't know much about this case still catching up. however that article literally states a bloodbath. Now i get why people are saying people must have switched it off. so strange, however not reporting it tot he dispatcher may also have meant an at the time focus on the vital signs of the victims not the wounds and general state.

"Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen” – as people on campus unnerved by the shocking crime skip town early for Thanksgiving.

Law enforcement sources told the Daily Mail that the victims bled out after being butchered in the off-campus home, and described the scene as the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

“There was blood everywhere. We have investigators who have been on the job for 20, even 30, years, and they say they have never seen anything like this,” a police source close to the probe told the outlet."

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

to me that really means it was everywhere.

 

[SteveP]

IMO, you might or might not. I don't find it unusual not to mention it, nor would I find it unusual if someone had said "I see blood" or "There is blood everywhere!" People react differently, some go outward hysterical and some turn inward quiet to process what they don't want to know or believe. Again, depends on what they saw at first sight. If I assume legs out of a bathroom door and little blood to the immediate eye, but not moving or responding to calls, that would be different than walking into a bedroom with the walls covered in blood. From the texts and the 911 call, DM at least did not seem like a person who would go running in to see what she didn't really want to know. JMO, though.

I think it is very possible, and even likely, that, with DM and BF both surely within earshot of the person who went inside who was relaying info to the 9-1-1 dispatcher, and probably both in shock, he chose not to describe the scene as a bloodbath. I think he knew there was no need for ambulances, so waited for trained first responders to give the surviving roommates the bad news of their friends. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

• NewOrder Sealing Exhibit A to Defendants 7th Motion to Compel
• NewDefendants Motion for Leave to File Responses to the States Amended Expert Disclosures
• NewDefendants Seventh Motion to Compel Discovery
• NewMotion to Modify No Contact Order
• NewMotion to Seal Exhibit A to Defendants

 

[Ghostwheel]

Pardon the question if its already been answered, but has anything been reported on whether there were lights on in any of the rooms? I recall DM said it was dark where she was. Was there any other ambient light? A bathroom light left on? Light from an outside street lamp?

The swiftness of the attacks makes me wonder how well BK was able to see. TIA

I don't know about lights. but from Moonrise, Moonset, and Moon Phase in Moscow, ID Micro Area, November 2022
at 401 the moon was as high in the sky as it could go at 77% of full (Waning gibbous). I don't know for cloud cover.

 

[Ghostwheel]

right thankyou. sorry i don't know much about this case still catching up. however that article literally states a bloodbath. Now i get why people are saying people must have switched it off. so strange, however not reporting it tot he dispatcher may also have meant an at the time focus on the vital signs of the victims not the wounds and general state.

"Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen” – as people on campus unnerved by the shocking crime skip town early for Thanksgiving.

Law enforcement sources told the Daily Mail that the victims bled out after being butchered in the off-campus home, and described the scene as the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

“There was blood everywhere. We have investigators who have been on the job for 20, even 30, years, and they say they have never seen anything like this,” a police source close to the probe told the outlet."

Cops shocked by scene of University of Idaho slayings: ‘Blood everywhere’

Authorities said Tuesday that the bloody scene where four University of Idaho students were slaughtered with a knife was the “worst they’ve ever seen.”

nypost.com

to me that really means it was everywhere.

With respect (truly), it means sensational headlines to me.

 

[fcavanaugh]

<modsnip - quoted post was AI generated - not allowed>

IMO, the killer planned this to ambush his target/s at the early morning hour when he thought/assumed the victim/s would have their guards down after a night out at the bars figured residents of house were likely inebriated and passed out/sleeping at that hour, like a true coward killer- attack victim at most vulnerable time without much chance for them to react or fight back. He just didn’t plan on anyone inside the house being awake.

I think Maddie was asleep when attacked and that roused Kaylee awake who may have had a slight chance to react/fight a little but was quickly cornered in the bed by the killer and killed in short order. Xana was awake having ordered food and on tik tok and when confronted by the killer, put up a hard fight for her life but even awake with more chance to react/fight back, she had no chance against the much bigger killer and likely Kbar murder weapon. I believe Ethan was likely sleeping in bed when attacked. I believe the killings of Kaylee and Xana may have taken a little longer than 20-30 seconds, Kaylee’s maybe took one minute if she had a slight chance to react by being roused/awoken by Maddie’s murder in the same bed. And Xana’s murder maybe a minute, minute and half as she had been awake at iirc 4:15isham on tik tok. I agree with 5-10 seconds to move between the victims in the same room and 15-20 seconds moving between the 2 floors. There’s a reason profilers call murders like this ambush or blitz attack, ambush victims at their most vulnerable, blitz sudden, violent overwhelming attack, in and out expeditiously.

I also believe the timeline before his phone came back online at 4:48am allowed time for him to have changed out of any protective clothing i.e., coveralls, booties, gloves etc., and dumped them somewhere, and he pre prepared his car with plastic or maybe the shower curtain to avoid transferring anything that might have been leftover on his person after changing out of his kill suit.

As a PHD criminology student, he was aware of forensics and who knows, he possibly was a fan of the television show Dexter which aired during his teen years and could’ve picked up some tips from that lol, let’s just say I wouldn’t be surprised if he watched that show and picked up some forensic tips there as well.

Thanks for posting this MG!

IMHOO

ETA 1-spaced paragraph
ETA 2-clarification

 

[Maat99]

I think it is very possible, and even likely, that, with DM and BF both surely within earshot of the person who went inside who was relaying info to the 9-1-1 dispatcher, and probably both in shock, he chose not to describe the scene as a bloodbath. I think he knew there was no need for ambulances, so waited for trained first responders to give the surviving roommates the bad news of their friends. JMO

This is exactly what I also think. The filing says that HK located the body. And he told DM and BF to call 911. When DM or BF are asked by the 911 operator to check if someone is passed out, they don’t say “we already checked”. They say “we need to go check”. I don’t think HK told those girls any details. Maybe to spare them. But also, shutting down is a pretty common response to extreme trauma - especially for men.