4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[Cool Cats]

Her description of BK, based on a very brief look at a mostly covered murderer was a surprising good ID, height, a bit taller than her, bushy eyebrows, athletic, but not muscular...know what was an even better ID? HIs DNA on the bloody knife sheath, left in MM's bed. JMO

The DNA will convict him it strongly appears to me.

Why?

The evidence that means the most to jurors is DNA evidence and especially true in DP cases where life is at steak. DNA evidence elicited more guilty verdicts, and jurors were more confident in their verdict.
Pulled from everything from guns to doorknobs, touch DNA is one of the most widely used forms of DNA evidence in criminal investigations. Touch DNA comes from skin cells it does not come from bodily fluids.

The 12 jurors will see alot of circumstantial evidence build up, pile up a mile high. The circumstantial evidence with the phone, car, 11 very late Moscow trips, suspicious secretive behavior in Pennsylvania, blow-up with his professor ruining his teaching job which could be seen as the catalyst to murder, and a pattern of disfunction with women....

But even with all this circumstantial evidence some jurors could be concerned if it all adds up to meet the threshold of beyond a reasonable doubt.

This is where the DNA comes in to play. This helps cement all the evidence pushing it beyond a reasonable doubt. The DNA can make skeptical jurors feel sure of their guilty verdict. That they are not condemning an innocent man. Very important they feel sure so they can sleep at night.

What Evidence Matters to Jurors? The Prevalence and Importance of Different Homicide Trial Evidence to Mock Jurors - PMC

The present research explores how important different trial evidence is to mock jurors’ decisions. Study 1 surveys legal professionals to determine what evidence is common at homicide trials. Study 2 utilizes the list of evidence generated in Study ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[jepop]

I think you are confused due to other posters putting all manner false assumptions here and muddying the waters. My post was originally about how DM and BF must feel given that DM doesn't recognize BK. These two women were friends and I would think that they have talked since Nov. 13, 2022. I don't know when BF found out DM doesn't recognize BK but it may have been shortly after BK's arrest. If that happened, I would think these women would be scared because DM allegedly saw the man, but she doesn't recognize BK as the man she saw which would likely make them think the man DM saw is still out there. That's my point. They both are acting like they are afraid to go to or be in Moscow and have even changed schools at significant financial and personal cost to themselves and their families. If they are not certain BK is the one, who could blame them for being afraid and not wanting to return to Moscow? Certainly not me.

Have no idea how you get the idea that DM/BF don't trust LE or the investigation to have got the right guy; because DM said she didn't recognise the masked stranger in her home ( of whose description does not exclude BK)? She didn't recognise him from the beginning obviously. If she had recognised him on Nov 13th 2022 she would have told the police and BK would have been immediately identified and arrested.

What is the point you are making here? They didn't come back to Moscow. They decided to stay home for their own reasons. Trauma will do that. Again on what basis are you speculating that DM/BF are concerned LE got it wrong and that is why they haven't returned? Trauma has an obvious basis in reality jmo. Alternatively, the fact that DM never once claimed to recognise the masked stranger in her home at the time the murderers happened, does not logically account for her non -return to Moscow. You have to assume she doesn't trust LE to reach such a conclusion and that is baseless speculation. Jmo

 

[Boxer]

LE said that DM looked up BK's photo as soon as she heard he was arrested and she told LE that she didn't recognize him. BTW, this information came from Ashley Jennings - the prosecutor, not AT. This was in the Jan 23 hearing. <modsnip>

Right that is true, but attaching any meaning to the fact she did not recognize the masked man is the defenses card.

 

[Balthazar]

You're taking completely normal behavior, something that almost everyone in this situation would do, and then creating some false narrative that these two victims bizarrely believe they got the wrong guy, because the witness who saw his eyes couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

That works on no level.

You are making false assumptions. AJ didn't say there was a lineup. AJ said DM looked up BK's photo when she heard he was arrested and told LE that she didn't recognize him.

 

[MassGuy]

You are making false assumptions. AJ didn't say there was a lineup. AJ said DM looked up BK's photo when she heard he was arrested and told LE that she didn't recognize him.

Ok, and even with that clarity it changes nothing. She didn't recognize him, and she shouldn't have been able to recognize him. Not from the description we saw in those texts, and what she told police.

 

[vls12345]

I think you are confused due to other posters putting all manner false assumptions here and muddying the waters. My post was originally about how DM and BF must feel given that DM doesn't recognize BK. These two women were friends and I would think that they have talked since Nov. 13, 2022. I don't know when BF found out DM doesn't recognize BK but it may have been shortly after BK's arrest. If that happened, I would think these women would be scared because DM allegedly saw the man, but she doesn't recognize BK as the man she saw which would likely make them think the man DM saw is still out there. That's my point. They both are acting like they are afraid to go to or be in Moscow and have even changed schools at significant financial and personal cost to themselves and their families. If they are not certain BK is the one, who could blame them for being afraid and not wanting to return to Moscow? Certainly not me.

Even without recognizing BK, DM and BF could feel that the correct person was arrested. Even so, they might not want to hang around Moscow because of trauma. Or perhaps the idea of a copycat killer. Horrible crimes bring plenty more horrible people out of the woodwork.

As to all the supposition re: costs of transfers, new sororities, etc. We do not know any of the details. Their new colleges could have waived extra fees or accepted all credits, many sororities have national chapters, etc. In spite of me mentioning many horrible people in the previous paragraph, there are also many good people. And people working at universities surely were aware of what went down. DM and BF are not the only students from their university to leave after the murders and I assume a number of those who left went on to other universities. I am guessing some universities (maybe many?) went above and beyond to help students who were transferring due to this heinous crime.

All MOO.

 

[schooling]

LE said that DM looked up BK's photo as soon as she heard he was arrested and she told LE that she didn't recognize him. BTW, this information came from Ashley Jennings - the prosecutor, not AT. This was in the Jan 23 hearing. Maybe, if you would go back and actually watch the hearings, this kind of information would not be a surprise.

I'm not sure this means what you think it means, IMO.

 

[fcavanaugh]

I think you are confused due to other posters putting all manner false assumptions here and muddying the waters. My post was originally about how DM and BF must feel given that DM doesn't recognize BK. These two women were friends and I would think that they have talked since Nov. 13, 2022. I don't know when BF found out DM doesn't recognize BK but it may have been shortly after BK's arrest. If that happened, I would think these women would be scared because DM allegedly saw the man, but she doesn't recognize BK as the man she saw which would likely make them think the man DM saw is still out there. That's my point. They both are acting like they are afraid to go to or be in Moscow and have even changed schools at significant financial and personal cost to themselves and their families. If they are not certain BK is the one, who could blame them for being afraid and not wanting to return to Moscow? Certainly not me.

<modsnip>

Moving on, why would DM recognize BK in a photo when she saw a dressed all in black, masked up to his literal eyes/eyebrows man/intruder? IMO, that is a far cry from DM thinking they got the wrong guy/the killer is still out there. It really speaks to her being honest with LE in her best recollection about what she saw that early morning in a flash glance at the intruder. It’s no surprise to me that she couldn’t say with 100% certainty the man in the photo (BK not covered up from head to toe) is who she saw because again intruder dressed in black and mask covering his face except for eyes/bushy eyebrows she described which is imo consistent with BK brows.

The fact is DM’s eyewitness account does not rule BK out, and when taken in consideration with all the other known facts of the case, least of which his DNA on the knife sheath at the scene, I’m pretty confident LE has the right guy and won’t try to speak for DM and her feelings about whether she thinks LE got the right guy.

Again, this poor young woman is a victim and was traumatized beyond belief imo. She did what was asked of her as an eyewitness and did her best considering the circumstances. LE takes it from there and homes in on a suspect based on all of the facts/evidence they’ve collected and analyzed taken together. Period. Full stop.

IMHOO

ETA-clarity

 

[jepop]

<modsnip>
Moving on, why would DM recognize BK in a photo when she saw a dressed all in black, masked up to his literal eyes/eyebrows man/intruder? IMO, that is a far cry from DM thinking they got the wrong guy/the killer is still out there. It really speaks to her being honest with LE about what she saw that early morning. It’s no surprise to me that she couldn’t say with 100% certainty the man in the photo (BK not covered up from head to toe) is who she saw because again intruder dressed in black and mask covering his face except for those bushy eyebrows which is imo consistent with BK/his brow.

The fact is DM’s eyewitness account does not rule BK out, and when taken in consideration with all the other known facts of the case, least of which his DNA on the knife sheath at the scene, I’m pretty confident LE has the right guy and won’t try to speak for DM and her feelings about whether she thinks LE got the right guy. She did what was asked of her as a witness and LE takes it from there and homes in on a suspect based on all evidence taken together. Period. Full stop.

IMHOO

Yes, in full agreement with every word here.

 

[Balthazar]

Have no idea how you get the idea that DM/BF don't trust LE or the investigation to have got the right guy; because DM said she didn't recognise the masked stranger in her home ( of whose description does not exclude BK)? She didn't recognise him from the beginning obviously. If she had recognised him on Nov 13th 2022 she would have told the police and BK would have been immediately identified and arrested.

What is the point you are making here? They didn't come back to Moscow. They decided to stay home for their own reasons. Trauma will do that. Again on what basis are you speculating that DM/BF are concerned LE got it wrong and that is why they haven't returned? Trauma has an obvious basis in reality jmo. Alternatively, the fact that DM never once claimed to recognise the masked stranger in her home at the time the murderers happened, does not logically account for her non -return to Moscow. You have to assume she doesn't trust LE to reach such a conclusion and that is baseless speculation. Jmo

"You have to assume she doesn't trust LE to reach such a conclusion and that is baseless speculation."

That is not what I am assuming at all. Please do not make false assumptions about what I think.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Well Google AI had it but I can't make it come up again. But here is a group photo, Ethan is 6'4"
She reported seeing a man 5'10" or taller.

'People could be charged': Social media rumors about Moscow case leading to doxxing, harassment

From the moment the Vandal Alert went out four weeks ago telling the University of Idaho community four students had been killed, rumors began swirling.

www.spokesman.com

Yes, that is one of the photos I remember. Not 5'7".

 

[INfisherman]

One thought about a witness stating they don’t recognize someone might be that they mean they don’t recall seeing that person in a social setting (like around town, at work, at parties, etc.). Not necessarily that they don’t recognize them as the same person who invaded their home. Context in that case matters. What sort of credence would an investigator give a witness who claims they recognize a person wearing a mask which hid 50% or more of their face?

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Ok, and even with that clarity it changes nothing. She didn't recognize him, and she shouldn't have been able to recognize him. Not from the description we saw in those texts, and what she told police.

We already know she didn't see his face, just his forehead. Otherwise a police sketch artist would have released a drawing of him. She didn't say no, it couldn't be him. She just did not get a full view of his face.

But seeing a man in the house at that exact hour coincides with the white car on King road driving by a few times then later peeling out very fast.

Witnesses sometimes forget what they saw but the prosecution can read her LE interviews for the jury when it was fresh in her mind. When she described him enough that it could not rule him out and enough to match his license.

She is on the record with those initial statements and it will add to the circumstantial evidence. Jurors will decide how much "weight" to give her interviews.

BK supporters have wishful thinking grasping at straws.

2 Cents

 

[LinasK]

We already know she didn't see his face, just his forehead. Otherwise a police sketch artist would have released a drawing of him. She didn't say no, it couldn't be him. She just did not get a full view of his face.

But seeing a man in the house at that exact hour coincides with the white car on King road driving by a few times then later peeling out very fast.

Witnesses sometimes forget what they saw but the prosecution can read her LE interviews for the jury when it was fresh in her mind. When she described him enough that it could not rule him out and enough to match his license.

She is on the record with those initial statements and it will add to the circumstantial evidence. Jurors will decide how much "weight" to give her interviews.

BK supporters have wishful thinking grasping at straws.

2 Cents

And we cannot ascribe motives as to why the surviving roommate(s) no longer felt safe in Moscow Idaho. I know that I wouldn't be going back to that campus just because LE had the right man behind bars.

 

[Cool Cats]

And we cannot ascribe motives as to why the surviving roommate(s) no longer felt safe in Moscow Idaho. I know that I wouldn't be going back to that campus just because LE had the right man behind bars.

No longer feeling safe happens all the time to people in violent situations and it is not because they think the wrong defendant is locked up. In general there is an unsafe feeling that it could happen again by a different criminal. Is BK the only criminal? No.

So it is absurd to make up the story that the witnesses are uneasy in Moscow because they think BK was the wrong guy arrested. BK is the right guy but clearly that sense of safety has been violated. Someone broke into the house and if they hear noises outside at night it can be scary. Even possible PTSD.

2 Cents

 

[twall]

March 9, 2025, posted one hour ago

Bryan Kohberger: Inside the Idaho Murders – Episode 2​

A rare interview with Ethan Chapin’s mom, as she shares her concerns about the upcoming trial and how she still manages to keep smiling. Plus: brand new information about Bryan Kohberger’s academic pursuits at DeSales University and we put you in the passenger seat as we drive the way out-of-the-way route cops claim Kohberger took the night of the murders.

Thanks for posting, The Chapins are rethinking attending the trial. The segment with Mary Ellen O'Toole was interesting as to what BK's studies for his degree entailed.

 

[Swansee]

Winco:
I'm not familiar with this chain but the one on Pullman Road, Moscow ID is open 24/7.

WinCo Foods · Moscow, Idaho

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[mrjitty]

I agree with this re passing comment. Idk, but others would have additional knowledge and understanding of Codis upload guidelines so am waiting to see what comes out of MIL hearing. Depending on that, assume there will be state witness testimony at trial if this is even going to be an issue of import. Hippler will make the appropriate decisions regarding what and what isn't admissible evidence. In the meantime, no more tea leaf reading for me!

yes agreed. like you say, others will testify on these points as the defence has made its strategy obvious. The status of these aspects of the investigation pre arrest likely will not be the same as once trial prep has been completed.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think we can safely assume it's standard. Expanded to include a victim's father's new family and NOT an indication of any activity by BK. For a hot second though, I thought just as you did.

JMO

At the same time, if a suspected perpetrator is detained, wouldn't them being supplied the details of people they're not to contact furnish them with the names of those people?

For example, a protected victim commits to a new long term relationship and the couple has children plus they bring their own children into the relationship, they all reside in the same household together with other relatives, forming a large blended family. The convict would likely have no way of knowing that information until they are requested to sign a document or notification to state they cannot contact x, y, z, a, b, c ... persons they have never known of.

JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IMO - It’s not criticism just because it’s not understood. None of the explanations make sense to me is all. I thought it would be obvious if you’re ’terrified’ to simply call 911. I’m interested to hear from them why they didn’t do that so perhaps I can understand better but I am in no way criticising them, I’d just like a better understanding, because to me, the situation screamed ‘call 911’. In horror movies, no one ever turns on the lights or simply gets out of the house to get help so maybe it is truer to real life than I imagined? Or maybe it’s as simple as, I’ve never really felt terrified so I don’t really know what I would do if I was, I can only imagine what I’d do, not what I’d actually do perhaps. MOO

I agree with you.

I was wondering if the surviving housemates, not being as close in relationship as the others and maybe having not dwelled in the house as long were frequently unsettled by noise of socialising, latecomers, food deliveries in the early hours, the dog, etc. They'd possibly even experienced the police attending noisy parties to order everyone to cool it. They'd maybe fended off neighbour complaints and minor disputes we wouldn't know about.

So perhaps when this incident happened, their stance was to comfort one another in the face of yet more noise and odd comings and goings. Maybe they'd decided to stick together and discuss all this with everyone the next day, fell into deep sleep feeling resolved they would discuss this with the others the next day. JMO MOO