4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[Boxer]

An icon?

Yes. Re: ER. From Google AI.

"If someone is described as an "icon," it means they are widely admired and seen as a symbol of a particular thing, often representing a set of beliefs, a way of life, or a cultural movement."

-

 

[KylaJohns78]

I haven't read all the papers yet, but this aligns with what I think happened.

My theory: BK entered through the slider & went to the third floor first, where he killed MM & KG. (MM was asleep or out of it enough that there was no resistance. KG woke up enough to fight some.)

In the meantime, XK might have been eating her food in the den or in her bedroom when BK entered. After he went up the stairs, XK went to the kitchen (maybe to put her trash or utensils from her DoorDash food there). As she went back to her room (or perhaps to the bathroom beside her bedroom), BK either saw or sensed movement from that area so went there next. I think he may have come up behind XK either at the bathroom doorway or her bedroom doorway. He stabbed her, then realized there was someone in the bed in her room. (EC, who I think was fully asleep/passed out when stabbed.) While he was attacking EC, XK was hurt & whimpering (what DM heard), so BK turned around & said the it's ok, I'm here to help statement while then stabbing her further. I think she put up a fight during this part.

Then, between killing 4, the time spent inside, etc., I think he was focused on leaving. I don't feel like he saw/registered DM.

All MOO.

(I don't know about the "someone's here" statement. I thought DM had said KG said that? But many seem to assume that XK said it? My memory is more hazy on those details. Since KG's & MM's rooms looked out on the side/back yards, maybe KG saw him moving through the yard approaching the slider when she said that? And maybe she wouldn't have said it in alarm but more that someone was coming over & maybe thought he was coming to visit one of the roommates. Or perhaps she was thinking it was a DoorDash driver that got turned around & parked behind the house instead of the parking area & was walking through the yard to bring the order, not knowing who of the roommates may have ordered or who may have been expecing someone so she just made the general statement. But I don't know.)

This is exactly how I think it all happened as well. Makes the most sense IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I can see this. I seem to recall that Elliot Rodger became the “patron saint” of incels. “Papa” could fit as the progenitor of notorious incels.


Oh, I see now that Wikipedia ends their entry on him by claiming his legacy as bringing attention to incels, praises for him by others in the “incel community,” celebrating “Saint Elliot Day” on the anniversary of his murders, etc.

Also incels referring to attacking women as “going E.R.”

Yikes.

Elliot Rodger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Also, a sort of link maybe... ER was obsessed and fixated on the idea that pretty white young women with blonde hair were the sole cause of all his troubles. IMO, he seemed to disregard the idea that there are many other types of young women to try and befriend or date if he tried to get to know some. Also, by the end of his writings, he was pretty much blaming 'them' for every difficulty in his life in general which made no sense at all and was very distorted and sick thinking. JMO maybe BK was of similar views?

 

[katydid23]

The vehicle was spotted by the Ridge Rd cameras twice at 3:29am and 4:01am. The capture that best allowed them to identify the make and model of the vehicle was taken at 4:01am.

View attachment 573043

View attachment 573044

Source: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...ants-MiL-12-RE-Make-Model-Suspect-Vehicle.pdf

See pages 3-4.

Great post.

 

[Arkay]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

They hadn’t yet confirmed through DNA that BK was a match for the DNA found on the snap, as several have posted above.

We don’t know everything LE knew. What if, once they knew BK was the guy, they looked back at his cross-country trip with his dad and wondered if dad would cover for him? Or was even an accomplice?

I’m just hypothesizing, because I absolutely see the father as his innocent collateral victim, as well as the rest of his family.

To my mind, if LE felt that no-knock was necesssary, then so be it.

Also, I see BK as destroying evidence by stashing his stuff in the neighbor's trash. He thought all trace of him would be demolished without LE being able to gather that evidence.

IMO

 

[NCWatcher]

They hadn’t yet confirmed through DNA that BK was a match for the DNA found on the snap, as several have posted above.

We don’t know everything LE knew. What if, once they knew BK was the guy, they looked back at his cross-country trip with his dad and wondered if dad would cover for him? Or was even an accomplice?

I’m just hypothesizing , because I absolutely see the father as his innocent collateral victim, as well as the rest of his family.

To my mind, if LE felt that no-knock was necesssary, then so be it.

Also, I see BK as destroying evidence by stashing his stuff in the neighbor's trash. He thought all trace of him would be demolished without LE being able to gather that evidence.

IMO

Agree we don't know what LE knew. Perhaps there are significant "facts." But trusting that police actions would always be justified if we just knew enough hasn't paid off for me.
MOO

 

[LinasK]

Interesting he was allowed to drive across the entire country with his dad only about a week or so before the perceived need for a no-knock bust at his parents' home arose.
MOO

Allowed? They didn't definitely know it was him at the time.

 

[danablue1]

This is exactly how I think it all happened as well. Makes the most sense IMO.

You're awesome and i think you are spot on

 

[katydid23]

Agree we don't know what LE knew. Perhaps there are significant "facts." But trusting that police actions would always be justified if we just knew enough hasn't paid off for me.
MOO

Here's what we do know---at the time of the PA arrest, they had just determined that BK was a solid suspect in this quadruple brutal murder. And we know his parents and sisters [I think] were inside the home.

What do murder suspects sometimes do when they see they are about to be arrested? They often panic, react violently or irrationally. His family would be in danger if he did so.

What if they just knocked and announced themselves and BK held his family hostage at gunpoint? I think the public would have ridiculed LE for being so sloppy. IMO

 

[rleigh123]

I'm not sure that^^^ article is correct. From what I remember back in the first few days, trolls from 4CHAN had immediately created fake accounts using BK's name and picture, and sent messages to the victims. They do that schitt all the time and are really good at it.

It fooled some journalists but didnt fool the FBI cyber team, etc.

That's what I thought, but the article says some messages were two weeks before the murders and that authorities think BK sent a message to one of the victims in October.

From post #703 that you quoted:

"Two weeks before the students were killed, Kohberger sent a series of messages to one of the victims on Instagram, an investigator familiar with the case told PEOPLE.

An account that authorities believe belonged to Kohberger sent a greeting to a female victim in late October. When he didn't get a reply, he sent several more messages to her."

 

[fcavanaugh]

I got sidetracked with real life and just getting back to something I was trying to do earlier which was to quote a post I wanted to clarify and still having issues with the quote.
@BeginnerSleuther, when I quoted your post, I meant to bold your last sentence opining that LE failed to keep everyone safe when they arrested BK, that’s the part I was disagreeing with.

I respect your opinion. It’s ok when we don’t always share the same opinions or agree, helps make discussions here interesting. I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts, theories, and opinions, and value the things I learn here from WS members’ wealth of experience and knowledge.

I also have huge respect for your profession. Incidentally, one of my uncles (RIP) was a Physician and my Aunt who I’m very close to is a Psychologist. IMO neither is an easy job and I admire those such as yourself that choose the medical field as their life’s work and the sacrifice, hard work and dedication it takes to get there, as well as desire to care for and help others in their health journey. It is truly honorable and commendable.

I also have Active and Retired LE in my family who have shared their thoughts on how hard it is sometimes to make decisions that they know some members of the public won’t always agree with or back them on. They understand it goes with territory and that they won’t ever be able to please everybody in the public nor are they required to. LE first and foremost are bound to their sworn duty to uphold the U.S. Constitution, honor, serve and protect the safety of citizens in the communities they serve. There is more specific language tailored to jurisdictions, departments, various LE titles/occupations and LE agencies but that’s the main gist.
There are policies and procedures that fall within the law which sworn officers across various agencies use their training, skills, experience and discretion to follow and enforce every day across the country. Most LE I know personally and others I’ve watched and listened to interviewed over many years detest and feel very bad about having to put innocent citizens and family members of criminals and murder suspects through emotional/psychological trauma as a result of their decisions/actions, which is why they try to avoid no-knock arrests and typically only execute in cases they determine to be extreme circumstances r/t apprehension of suspect they determine to be high risk for (sorry to beat a dead horse) possibly causing physical harm to LE or others, themselves, destroy evidence and of course, LE prefers to take their suspect in alive to be able to answer to the charges against them.

I offer no apology for being a supporter/back the blue as some of them are my family members who do and have done great work. IMO LE obviously have a very tough job with huge responsibilities and put their lives on the line every day to protect citizens and society as a whole. Do I think LE are infallible? no absolutely not. I recognize they make mistakes just like all humans and I’ve seen many that own up to their mistakes/admit they were wrong and I respect them for that. Yes there are some bad actors in LE as there are in a lot of professions and if an LE is corrupt and breaks the law, they should be treated and held accountable to the fullest extent of law no question, and if incompetent, fired. Does it always happen that bad actor/corrupt LE is held accountable? no, just like some criminals and murderers are walking the streets. Our justice system is flawed and some bad/corrupt LE and criminals/murderers unfortunately do get away/never held accountable. That’s just the reality, sad and unfortunate as it is. Same if an innocent person is convicted of a crime and sent to prison, it’s awful but at least there are avenues available a wrongfully convicted person can pursue to help right the wrong and get out of prison. Having said all that, I believe the majority of LE choose to work in the profession for the right reasons, remain true to and honor their sworn oath, follow procedures, protocol, and obey the law.

I now realize how long this post is and probably won’t be commenting on the topic again. Just thought I’d share a little more of my perspective and opinion which I’ve formed based on conversations with my own family members who work/ed in various branches and capacities in LE, doing my own research/reading, and from following true crime for a very loooonnnng time. Ugh I’m reminded how old I am lol.

My apologies to all WS’ers for the long post and for probably boring y’all ad infinitum.

Carry on.

All of the above IMHOO

 

[rleigh123]

I myself have a problem with someone taking advantage of any unfortunate situation for money or attention. I'm not sure of her motive but i would never want to read a book about BK. Just my opinion.

I wouldn't either. I'm never interested in "the killer speaks" type of documentaries. But this might be more about her and her family's experience as innocent family members of a killer.


I read the book written by Scott Peterson's adopted half-sister. She was an outsider turned insider turned outsider again. She had a unique perspective and imo it was a worthy read.


IMO

 

[danablue1]

Did anyone hear KG's dad say "He didn't have to go upstairs" i always wondered what he meant by that. It was before the gag order when he was talking alot.

 

[danablue1]

Did anyone hear KG's dad say "He didn't have to go upstairs" i always wondered what he meant by that. It was before the gag order when he was talking alot.

I found what he said

There’s a couple things that tell me--with common sense, but I’m not a professional, so I wanna specify that--but they’ve said the entry point was the slider, it was in the middle floor, so, to me, he doesn’t have to go upstairs. His entry and exit are available without having to go upstairs or downstairs. Looks like he probably may have not gone downstairs, I–we don’t know that for sure, but he obviously went upstairs. So I’m using logic that, um, he chose to go up there when he didn’t have to.

 

[al66pine]

A Post "Too long"?

I got sidetracked with real life and just getting back to something I was trying to do earlier which was to quote a post I wanted to clarify and still having issues with the quote.
@BeginnerSleuther, when I quoted your post, I meant to bold your last sentence opining that LE failed to keep everyone safe when they arrested BK, that’s the part I was disagreeing with.

I respect your opinion. It’s ok when we don’t always share the same opinions or agree, helps make discussions here interesting. I enjoy reading everyone’s thoughts, theories, and opinions, and value the things I learn here from WS members’ wealth of experience and knowledge.

I also have huge respect for your profession. Incidentally, one of my uncles (RIP) was a Physician and my Aunt who I’m very close to is a Psychologist. IMO neither is an easy job and I admire those such as yourself that choose the medical field as their life’s work and the sacrifice, hard work and dedication it takes to get there, as well as desire to care for and help others in their health journey. It is truly honorable and commendable.

I also have Active and Retired LE in my family who have shared their thoughts on how hard it is sometimes to make decisions that they know some members of the public won’t always agree with or back them on. They understand it goes with territory and that they won’t ever be able to please everybody in the public nor are they required to. LE first and foremost are bound to their sworn duty to uphold the U.S. Constitution, honor, serve and protect the safety of citizens in the communities they serve. There is more specific language tailored to jurisdictions, departments, various LE titles/occupations and LE agencies but that’s the main gist.
There are policies and procedures that fall within the law which sworn officers across various agencies use their training, skills, experience and discretion to follow and enforce every day across the country. Most LE I know personally and others I’ve watched and listened to interviewed over many years detest and feel very bad about having to put innocent citizens and family members of criminals and murder suspects through emotional/psychological trauma as a result of their decisions/actions, which is why they try to avoid no-knock arrests and typically only execute in cases they determine to be extreme circumstances r/t apprehension of suspect they determine to be high risk for (sorry to beat a dead horse) possibly causing physical harm to LE or others, themselves, destroy evidence and of course, LE prefers to take their suspect in alive to be able to answer to the charges against them.

I offer no apology for being a supporter/back the blue as some of them are my family members who do and have done great work. IMO LE obviously have a very tough job with huge responsibilities and put their lives on the line every day to protect citizens and society as a whole. Do I think LE are infallible? no absolutely not. I recognize they make mistakes just like all humans and I’ve seen many that own up to their mistakes/admit they were wrong and I respect them for that. Yes there are some bad actors in LE as there are in a lot of professions and if an LE is corrupt and breaks the law, they should be treated and held accountable to the fullest extent of law no question, and if incompetent, fired. Does it always happen that bad actor/corrupt LE is held accountable? no, just like some criminals and murderers are walking the streets. Our justice system is flawed and some bad/corrupt LE and criminals/murderers unfortunately do get away/never held accountable. That’s just the reality, sad and unfortunate as it is. Same if an innocent person is convicted of a crime and sent to prison, it’s awful but at least there are avenues available a wrongfully convicted person can pursue to help right the wrong and get out of prison. Having said all that, I believe the majority of LE choose to work in the profession for the right reasons, remain true to and honor their sworn oath, follow procedures, protocol, and obey the law.

I now realize how long this post is and probably won’t be commenting on the topic again. Just thought I’d share a little more of my perspective and opinion which I’ve formed based on conversations with my own family members who work/ed in various branches and capacities in LE, doing my own research/reading, and from following true crime for a very loooonnnng time. Ugh I’m reminded how old I am lol.

My apologies to all WS’ers for the long post and for probably boring y’all ad infinitum.

Carry on.

All of the above IMHOO

@fcavanaugh
"Too long"???

Nope, post was not too long, was just right.
imo.

 

[Warwick7]

I found what he said

There’s a couple things that tell me--with common sense, but I’m not a professional, so I wanna specify that--but they’ve said the entry point was the slider, it was in the middle floor, so, to me, he doesn’t have to go upstairs. His entry and exit are available without having to go upstairs or downstairs. Looks like he probably may have not gone downstairs, I–we don’t know that for sure, but he obviously went upstairs. So I’m using logic that, um, he chose to go up there when he didn’t have to.

What?

 

[Cascadia Mount]

the thing I can't wrap my head around is that house is so rambling. How did he know how to get around in it? Or in real is it easier to find your way? The virtual diagram to me, if I were a juror, would be so confusing. All those levels stacked on top of each other.

He had to have cased that place out numerous times. It is possible he was inside of it as well??

Yeah, the house had an unusual layout, it just seems so odd.

 

[Zinn]

Did anyone hear KG's dad say "He didn't have to go upstairs" i always wondered what he meant by that. It was before the gag order when he was talking alot.

I believe he was saying that intentionally going upstairs to the level with Maddie’s and Kaylee’s bedrooms indicated one or both of them were among the killer’s intended targets or that one or both of them were his sole or primary targets. This was in the context of speculation about who might have been specifically targeted. JMO.

 

[PinkParis2052]

the thing I can't wrap my head around is that house is so rambling. How did he know how to get around in it? Or in real is it easier to find your way? The virtual diagram to me, if I were a juror, would be so confusing. All those levels stacked on top of each other.

He had to have cased that place out numerous times. It is possible he was inside of it as well??

the house was originally just one story and then owner added the second and the third floors to the house like around 2017 or 2018 and those two additional floors were built kinda into the hill by the house. There is step down right before you get to DM's room on the second floor. All IMO.

Also in the Tik Tok that they made where they pretended to be each other you can hear the MM when she is walking up the stairs from the first floor to the second floor.

 

[Kemug]

Here's a disturbing footnote of my own. "I'm here to help." What BK said in November, 2022.

RSBM
I just had a thought about this disturbing comment. I find myself hoping desperately that Xana did believe that someone had come to help them, and that she never knew any different.