4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[mmeynstyn]

JMO

If BK was targeting MM and somehow knew KG had left town with the dog (from following their socials?) and was also surveilling the house? Plus maybe had access to personal data we aren't aware of such as overheard conversations or knowing someone they all knew?

He could have no way of knowing KG was going to pay this sudden and impromptu 'farewell' flying visit in her new vehicle. Did she announce that on her socials?

Perhaps BK fully expected to find MM alone in the top part of the house. Unconcerned there were multiple others residing below and likely to be fast asleep.

Perhaps he was reading the house in a particular system, using certain cues - particular lights on / off, certain blinds up or down, certain drapes pulled, outdoor shoes on the stoop... that sort of thing. I think he had some knowledge of the house that there was no CCTV or internal cameras.

Unaware of the Door Dash. Discounting the brand new red vehicle to belong to any of the students or their associates.

KG had already fully cleared out of her room, maybe somehow he could somewhat see into that room? See it was still 'empty' with no furnishings or personal items, see the shelves were empty and the drapes open? He could see it was still unoccupied. Maybe the room was even listed as vacant on a student spare rooms site with people able to ask questions or such like?

The time pressure - this has to be done 'now' was perhaps before a new upstairs house mate moved in?

JMO MOO

I am with you. I have thought about this more times than I care to image. I also thought about the KG back in town for the weekend to account for this being the moment. However, here is my latest thought on the timing. All of this is MOO:

Based on what we are learning, he planned for months. He probably thought about something like this for longer, but the actual planning (id target, clothing, car protection, operational tactics, etc) was months.

He was having problems in his TA position with several interventions throughout the semester. After that last meeting/intervention, he must have had a feeling he may lose his TA position. (I am not saying he knew for sure, but the writing was on the wall. The question about how he was going to fund his next semester may have amped up his anxiousness).

And lastly, this speaks for THAT weekend - not sure what type of responses he received from his Reddit survey or what final exams or oral dissertations he needed for his PHD, however, I saw this on the WSU academic schedule:

Last day to take final examination for an advanced degree.

Friday, November 18, 2022


Can't let all that planning and prep go to waste. Time to get the data I've been longing for.


edited formatting of cut-n-paste from WSU Academic Schedule.

 

[New Penny]

He seemed committed.

Was this his first attempt?

Did he plan to park and enter on the first approach? What stopped him? 3 am is sort of the bewitching hour. 2 am is too early, in and around a college campus. 4-4:30 am gets to be too late though, you risk early risers. What went into his matrix? Weather? Weekend? Did he know who all was at the house? Did he care? Once he arrived, was he seeing lights on? Either at 1122 or in nearby houses? Did he prep his car? Did he have a change of clothes, over or under? Did he fail to account for the sheath because he wrapped the knife into the coveralls as he stripped out of them?

Did he speed away in a panic? Or was it closer to excitement?

I can't get his selfie out of my head. He wasn't appalled at what he did.

He was enthralled with himself.

Horrifying.

JMO

According to Reacher 4 am is when ***t happens

 

[Vaderman]

He likely didn't kill Dana Smithers, but it wouldn't hurt to check out his selfies from that date.

I completely forgot about his parents testifying for that case. Did anything definitive ever come out of that? Or is it all still quiet/hidden.

 

[Warwick7]

No matter who writes it, I'm not at all sure I would consider an account of a family's dynamics from within the family as "factual." That's not a particular criticism of the sister's (early to me) book plans but she is part of the dynamic. And everyone has his/her own issues that affect the family system. At least IMO, nobody seriously gets away with saying "I know the family truths while the accounts of all other family members are biased."
MOO

Yes, however, someone inside that family, is going to have considerable knowledge of its own clock working parts.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I completely forgot about his parents testifying for that case. Did anything definitive ever come out of that? Or is it all still quiet/hidden.

When BK's parents testified, the GJ results from PA were shared with LE in Idaho. It's never been said what it was about to my knowledge, but I think it must be very relative to this case. It's rare to do that in the first place, being GJ findings are so secretive.

It feels so clandestine I feel the need to add a 'This message will self destruct in 60 seconds" tag.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have never thought smashing into the house was extreme. They were after a man who murdered 4 people.

ITA - As much as I felt bad for the parents, I think the tactical team didn't know what they might be up against. BK was up and moving about the residence as they could see.

They knew he had at least one gun, and they would have been concerned not just about BK, but his parent's safety as well.

A fugitive from justice defendant in a quadruple homicide is not someone whose actions can be trusted.

IMO

 

[Boxer]

I wonder what he would have stopped at. We knew quite some time ago that one of his sisters was suspicious of him to the extent that she and other family members searched his car. It wouldn't have been his trusting father, so probably his 2 sisters and mother. Now we learn that his Amazon purchase of a knife was also known to them, and it now also seems that they prevented him from buying another after the murders. So at that point BK had to have been aware that they suspected him. Surely he must have. Was he planning on doing anything about it? Once he got another knife, would they have been safe from him? Did they notify LE that he was trying to get another knife? And that was why LE smashed into the house so dramatically to arrest him? It seemed a bit extreme at the time, but not if they knew these details and genuinely feared for his family.

MOO the house is rural and remote.
Police in numbers approaching normally would be highly noticible.
MOO BK is the type of the guy to kill his family trying to evade arrest for 20 Minutes, or just viscerally wanting to kill more anyones on the way out. most
Surveillance was being done from 10,000 feet,
Actually they did a great job isolating him, and arresting him away from other humans.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

JMO

If BK was targeting MM and somehow knew KG had left town with the dog (from following their socials?) and was also surveilling the house? Plus maybe had access to personal data we aren't aware of such as overheard conversations or knowing someone they all knew?

He could have no way of knowing KG was going to pay this sudden and impromptu 'farewell' flying visit in her new vehicle. Did she announce that on her socials?

Perhaps BK fully expected to find MM alone in the top part of the house. Unconcerned there were multiple others residing below and likely to be fast asleep.

Perhaps he was reading the house in a particular system, using certain cues - particular lights on / off, certain blinds up or down, certain drapes pulled, outdoor shoes on the stoop... that sort of thing. I think he had some knowledge of the house that there was no CCTV or internal cameras.

Unaware of the Door Dash. Discounting the brand new red vehicle to belong to any of the students or their associates.

KG had already fully cleared out of her room, maybe somehow he could somewhat see into that room? See it was still 'empty' with no furnishings or personal items, see the shelves were empty and the drapes open? He could see it was still unoccupied. Maybe the room was even listed as vacant on a student spare rooms site with people able to ask questions or such like?

The time pressure - this has to be done 'now' was perhaps before a new upstairs house mate moved in?

Kaylee's last IG post the morning before the murders

One of the four University of Idaho students who were brutally stabbed to death posted a heartbreaking message online hours before her death — saying she was “one lucky girl” to spend every day with the close-knit group of friends.


Kaylee Goncalves shared the message on Instagram along with photos of herself surrounded by pals who included Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20.


“One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people,” Goncalves said.

So IF BK watched KG's social media posts, he knew she was at 1122 King Rd. And could have surmised that EC would be there that night, as he was in the photo. It's all so heart wrenchingly sad. And to think that afterwards he thought it was a splendid idea to take that thumb's up selfie. So proud of himself. I can't even fathom a rancid mind like his, and TBH I worked with someone who planned the murder of his wife, and as evil as he was, he wasn't as evil as this one.

 

[Zinn]

Kaylee's last IG post the morning before the murders

One of the four University of Idaho students who were brutally stabbed to death posted a heartbreaking message online hours before her death — saying she was “one lucky girl” to spend every day with the close-knit group of friends.


Kaylee Goncalves shared the message on Instagram along with photos of herself surrounded by pals who included Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20.


“One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people,” Goncalves said.

So IF BK watched KG's social media posts, he knew she was at 1122 King Rd. And could have surmised that EC would be there that night, as he was in the photo. It's all so heart wrenchingly sad. And to think that afterwards he thought it was a splendid idea to take that thumb's up selfie. So proud of himself. I can't even fathom a rancid mind like his, and TBH I worked with someone who planned the murder of his wife, and as evil as he was, he wasn't as evil as this one.

I don’t know that he would have assumed Ethan would be there. He might have perceived it as an off-campus sorority house. And the group photo was not taken at that house. We also don’t know if Ethan’s car was there overnight (probably, IMO) or if his brother drove over in it when contacted about Ethan (possibly, IMO, as I think they shared that vehicle).

 

[NCWatcher]

Yes, however, someone inside that family, is going to have considerable knowledge of its own clock working parts.

Yes, quite true. But that knowledge will be filtered through the individual involved, so not an "objective" accounting. The sister's perspective (or anyone else's from within the family) may be quite interesting. And if the sister has a commercial book contract, the publisher is counting on people being interested. But there's nothing to say that accounting would somehow be factual and free from bias. Her perspective is just that-- her perspective.
MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

And there's your evidence of the bushy-eyed intruder! He took his own crime-scene selfie.

Then leaves it on the phone with the date right after the murders. He is not dumb but lacks common sense. I expect DR

 

[girlhasnoname]

Kaylee's last IG post the morning before the murders

One of the four University of Idaho students who were brutally stabbed to death posted a heartbreaking message online hours before her death — saying she was “one lucky girl” to spend every day with the close-knit group of friends.


Kaylee Goncalves shared the message on Instagram along with photos of herself surrounded by pals who included Ethan Chapin, 20, Madison Mogen, 21, and Xana Kernodle, 20.


“One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people,” Goncalves said.

So IF BK watched KG's social media posts, he knew she was at 1122 King Rd. And could have surmised that EC would be there that night, as he was in the photo. It's all so heart wrenchingly sad. And to think that afterwards he thought it was a splendid idea to take that thumb's up selfie. So proud of himself. I can't even fathom a rancid mind like his, and TBH I worked with someone who planned the murder of his wife, and as evil as he was, he wasn't as evil as this one.

Thank you for posting that @MeadowMuffin. I hadn't had the chance to go look for it, but I knew Kaylee had been posting on her socials, she was quite active on those. It wouldn't have taken much for BK to know when she was coming into or was actually in town.

ITA - It's beyond sad, four innocent college kids murdered for no apparent reason (only the one in BK's twisted mind) and two roommates who lived through the incident, but have been thrown under the bus and accused/insinuated of all sorts of things online.

They are VICTIMS of BK as well, their lives were changed forever too. The parents, loved ones and friends, LE, and the community of Moscow...all VICTIMS who have all suffered at the hands of BK.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Then leaves it on the phone with the date right after the murders. He is not dumb but lacks common sense. I expect DR

Delusions of Grandeur accompanied by evil IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Delusions of Grandeur accompanied by evil IMO.

The prosecution thinks he will kill again which could be construed as dangerous to the general population. Death will cure that evil impulse

 

[Missyrocks5]

How convenient that the defense is saying there was no shower curtain because he is worried about germs so he changes it frequently . What an amazing coincidence of timing. No shower curtain and empty trash cans when they searched. The trash cans you can argue he was going home for Xmas so he emptied them, but the shower curtain. Just another improbability.

I wonder if his father, for example, will try to say that he ordered the knife and used it. Like Casey Anthony’s mother said it was she who did the google searches at the home (despite being at work). I am trying to think of what these people will argue if the State won’t take the DP off the table. Even if you explain some of these, it is statistically impossible for all the coincidences there would have to be for it NOT to be him. We don’t even know most of the evidence they have on him. There is a ton more. They got the kids’ purchases and locations, etc and his. How much do you want to bet he shows up at the same locations & times on at least some of them. Just for starters.

 

[gremlin444]

Jumping off this post. For anyone who doesn't know OCD often has nothing to do with "ick". Obsessive compulsive disorder is when you have a compulsion that in one's mind needs to obsessively be done. Some people need to turn a door knob three times before they can open a door, some need to do things in a certain order or their whole day is thrown off. Many people with OCD, you might not even notice it at all unless you are good friends (maybe you have a friend that cannot eat an apple unless it is cut in 8 pieces). And like anything else, there are varying degrees of OCD. But the compulsions often have nothing to do with washing your hands 10 times a day or being a germaphobe. Heck, being a serial killer smacks of harm OCD. IMO.

And then there is a the subset of OCD which is "pure O"--people who only have the obsessions but no accompanying compulsions/rituals.

 

[gremlin444]

KG had already fully cleared out of her room, maybe somehow he could somewhat see into that room? See it was still 'empty' with no furnishings or personal items, see the shelves were empty and the drapes open? He could see it was still unoccupied. Maybe the room was even listed as vacant on a student spare rooms site with people able to ask questions or such like?

It wasn't entirely cleared out. Some of her personal belongings that might normally be seen through the window might have been gone, but it was not an empty room.

Kaylee's room had her bed with bedding on it still visible as well as her Good Times sign.

University of Idaho homicide victims believed stabbed to death in 'isolated, targeted attack': police

Police in Moscow, Idaho, say that the four victims of a homicide that occurred near the University of Idaho campus over the weekend were apparently stabbed.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Diddian]

How convenient that the defense is saying there was no shower curtain because he is worried about germs so he changes it frequently . What an amazing coincidence of timing. No shower curtain and empty trash cans when they searched. The trash cans you can argue he was going home for Xmas so he emptied them, but the shower curtain. Just another improbability.

I wonder if his father, for example, will try to say that he ordered the knife and used it. Like Casey Anthony’s mother said it was she who did the google searches at the home (despite being at work). I am trying to think of what these people will argue if the State won’t take the DP off the table. Even if you explain some of these, it is statistically impossible for all the coincidences there would have to be for it NOT to be him. We don’t even know most of the evidence they have on him. There is a ton more. They got the kids’ purchases and locations, etc and his. How much do you want to bet he shows up at the same locations & times on at least some of them. Just for starters.

We don't know BK's father, but we have learned that BK's father turned BK in to LE for stealing the sister's cellphone. So, I think we have evidence that his father is inclined to ensure BK suffers the consequences of his criminal actions rather than to isolate him from them.

All of BK's family members, including his father, are victims of BK's choices. Rather than attempt to claim that it was he who looked for or bought the knife to sow confusion as to guilt/innocence (like Casey Anthony's mother claimed responsibility for the computer searches), I think it more likely that BK's father might want to help with introducing post-conviction evidence that there are mitigating factors about BK's personality or upbringing that should spare him the death penalty. I think he loves his son and cannot comprehend why his son makes the choices that he does. ETA: He wanted better for BK but I don't think that will motivate him to pretend a reality that isn't true.

 

[Sundog]

No matter who writes it, I'm not at all sure I would consider an account of a family's dynamics from within the family as "factual." That's not a particular criticism of the sister's (early to me) book plans but she is part of the dynamic. And everyone has his/her own issues that affect the family system. At least IMO, nobody seriously gets away with saying "I know the family truths while the accounts of all other family members are biased."
MOO

Exactly. Also, writing a book at this juncture strikes me as odd and opportunistic. JMO.

 

[Sundog]

The prosecution thinks he will kill again which could be construed as dangerous to the general population. Death will cure that evil impulse

So will lifetime incarceration if that is the outcome.