4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Zinn]

Is it just me, or does this more look like a Hoodie pulled down with a face mask or face gaiter?

Edit:spelling

She used words to describe it as well. She said it was a mask but not one with circles, it was rectangular and you could see across (which I took to mean across the eyes based on context clues focused on the eyebrows). She also said she could not see his hair. This was the type of mask I imagined based on her description:

 

[vls12345]

Trying to figure this out because I obviously don't have an Amazon account that differentiates who bought what unless it is going to a separate address or using a different card. You say "we know it couldn't have been BKs account". Do we know that? For sure?

Then you mention knowledge of BKs Amazon custom name, email and phone number that places the order. Is there an Amazon type of account that has these separately for a family for purchases on the same account? Mine doesn't, but it's older than dirt. My D has a user account on my account because we were in the same house, but it's only associated with Prime video, music, etc. Not with the purchasing account.

Is there such a thing as a family account with separate logins for the same account? TIA

Based on my own use of a family shared prime account, we all use the same log-in. Whoever orders something usually has it addressed to themselves (even if at the same address); a couple live away but still use the family account and log-in and just deliver to their (away) address. You set a default delivery address and method of payment but that's easy enough to change when finalizing the order (especially as you can save this info so you don't have to re-enter it every time). So, perhaps BK had his own credit card that he also used for his own purchases (while still using the family account to get free prime shipping).

My guess is that they shared an account login, but would update the name for delivery for each person who ordered. So if BK was living at home with his parents, he could order something off the amazon account and make sure his name was on the package for delivery. As BK is an adult, I think his parents were not opening packages addressed to him, nor were they trolling through the order history, imo.

I am thinking the account had one log-in, allowing the parents to be able to see the order history, which they may have done after his arrest. I am thinking they looked back through the orders, saw the orders for the knife, sheath, and sharpener, then gave that info to LE. That way, LE was able to write a very targeted warrant to search the amazon purchases.

All of the above is very much imo and MOO.

 

[stormymama]

Based on my own use of a family shared prime account, we all use the same log-in. Whoever orders something usually has it addressed to themselves (even if at the same address); a couple live away but still use the family account and log-in and just deliver to their (away) address. You set a default delivery address and method of payment but that's easy enough to change when finalizing the order (especially as you can save this info so you don't have to re-enter it every time). So, perhaps BK had his own credit card that he also used for his own purchases (while still using the family account to get free prime shipping).

My guess is that they shared an account login, but would update the name for delivery for each person who ordered. So if BK was living at home with his parents, he could order something off the amazon account and make sure his name was on the package for delivery. As BK is an adult, I think his parents were not opening packages addressed to him, nor were they trolling through the order history, imo.

I am thinking the account had one log-in, allowing the parents to be able to see the order history, which they may have done after his arrest. I am thinking they looked back through the orders, saw the orders for the knife, sheath, and sharpener, then gave that info to LE. That way, LE was able to write a very targeted warrant to search the amazon purchases.

All of the above is very much imo and MOO.

That’s how my household uses Amazon. One login, multiple delivery addresses, multiple payment options loaded. I have college kids. Password changed every year from Thanksgiving through Christmas.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Yes, for autonomy, a household account allows you to tether together for Amazon Prime but retain logins and privacy. So just use of cards, etc not details of searches and everything.

Thank you.. Again, mine doesn't have this. No separate logins, but separate family members. But recall when Amazon was books? That's how old my account is.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Based on my own use of a family shared prime account, we all use the same log-in. Whoever orders something usually has it addressed to themselves (even if at the same address); a couple live away but still use the family account and log-in and just deliver to their (away) address. You set a default delivery address and method of payment but that's easy enough to change when finalizing the order (especially as you can save this info so you don't have to re-enter it every time). So, perhaps BK had his own credit card that he also used for his own purchases (while still using the family account to get free prime shipping).

My guess is that they shared an account login, but would update the name for delivery for each person who ordered. So if BK was living at home with his parents, he could order something off the amazon account and make sure his name was on the package for delivery. As BK is an adult, I think his parents were not opening packages addressed to him, nor were they trolling through the order history, imo.

I am thinking the account had one log-in, allowing the parents to be able to see the order history, which they may have done after his arrest. I am thinking they looked back through the orders, saw the orders for the knife, sheath, and sharpener, then gave that info to LE. That way, LE was able to write a very targeted warrant to search the amazon purchases.

All of the above is very much imo and MOO.

This is how mine works. But I can order and send to D or D can order and send to me and you could not tell from the interface who did it. If the card changes, then you can ID the card, but you can't tell who physically ordered, except for maybe browser history.

Thank you.

Eta: I have accidentally ordered on Ds card and vice versa.

 

[vls12345]

This is how mine works. But I can order and send to D or D can order and send to me and you could not tell from the interface who did it. If the card changes, then you can ID the card, but you can't tell who physically ordered, except for maybe browser history.

Thank you.

Each person's computer in the household would have a different IP address. Maybe amazon and/or LE have a way to differentiate down to that level. (?) Or perhaps BK placed an order through his phone or though alexa.

Here's an article (a few years old and for Europe, but Europe has stronger privacy protections) that covers details of data that amazon collects:

All the Ways Amazon Tracks You—and How to Stop It

The retail empire is obsessed with your data. But is the convenience worth your personal information?

www.wired.com

 

[gremlin444]

This is how mine works. But I can order and send to D or D can order and send to me and you could not tell from the interface who did it. If the card changes, then you can ID the card, but you can't tell who physically ordered, except for maybe browser history.

Thank you.

Eta: I have accidentally ordered on Ds card and vice versa.

Amazon can tell from their end from the metadata--so they have info on which device a purchase was made on as well as if it was on browser or app.

BK would have had to have paid for it with a payment method that is trackable to him--otherwise we'd see bank records for his mom or dad being listed in the evidence to be authenticated (I just went back and checked and couldn't see any). Not to mention, if he had charged it to his mom or dad's payment method but had it shipped to him, he would have been risking them noticing a charge on their monthly statements they hadn't made and asking him about it.

 

[Peppery]

Do young women typically buy Kabars?
Collecting a set of weapons is a pretty male thing to do.
In this case especially, because adding the sharpener meant it was not just for decoration.

You just made me think…knives come pre sharpened, right? Possibly the sharpest they’ll ever be? Why would one buy a sharpener at the same time? Well, I’d guess it’s because they intend to use the knife a lot and expect it to dull quickly. Is this another sign of BK’s intent to become a serial killer? Was the knife used before King Rd? Is it possible some of the unknown blood DNA like the spot on the handrail is actually from a previous victim?

 

[Boxer]

Amazon can tell from their end from the metadata--so they have info on which device a purchase was made on as well as if it was on browser or app.

BK would have had to have paid for it with a payment method that is trackable to him--otherwise we'd see bank records for his mom or dad being listed in the evidence to be authenticated (I just went back and checked and couldn't see any). Not to mention, if he had charged it to his mom or dad's payment method but had it shipped to him, he would have been risking them noticing a charge on their monthly statements they hadn't made and asking him about it.

I thought saw that it was paid for with a gift card somewhere.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Maybe, i thought it was he did not make customers happy, i.e. not doing the way they wanted.

At least to my thinking filleting a fish body into lovely appetizing, marketable slices is quite a different skill than stabbing into a human body where the goal is death not something palletable. In other words he could flunk fish filleting and still do quite well with knife murder. OMO.

 

[gremlin444]

You just made me think…knives come pre sharpened, right? Possibly the sharpest they’ll ever be? Why would one buy a sharpener at the same time? Well, I’d guess it’s because they intend to use the knife a lot and expect it to dull quickly. Is this another sign of BK’s intent to become a serial killer? Was the knife used before King Rd? Is it possible some of the unknown blood DNA like the spot on the handrail is actually from a previous victim?

Oh, I know this one, thanks to all the time I've spent reading on knife forums due to this case. And the answer doesn't necessarily have to do with planning ahead for frequent use.

(And if BK had used the knife before King Road and had actually ever set foot on the 1st to 2nd floor stairs--which is very very unlikely--prior blood from usage would have been dried and highly unlikely to stick to the handrail.)

They come pre-sharpened to some extent and apparently vary in quality.

However, there are tons of discussions on the knife boards (easily googled) by knife geeks extolling the benefits of different sharpening angles and methods.

And from what I'm reading..while the general consumer ones come sharpened only on the normal cutting edge....um....some people, depending on what they intend to use it for....sharpen the first few inches or all of the "top" edge.

Seeing numerous ex military say that their unit sharpened both sides while other units didn't. Those who sharpened both sides mention doing so specifically in order to increase lethality in hand to hand combat. Also seeing hunters mention sharpening the top edge as well.

And with that, I'm staying off the knife boards for another few weeks.

 

[PinkParis2052]

I haven’t seen the image posted, but saw a YouTube video today where DM had drawn a picture of the mask (balaclava) on notebook paper for LE. Can anyone confirm this shows up in the released documents?

I was reading the comments below the video and one poster wondered why a terrified college student would spend part of the next morning on social media. To me it seemed obvious DM was checking for posting activity from her suspiciously silent roommates following the previous nights events. Is this the consensus of most here on Webslueths?

Edited for accuracy

REPLY TO STATE’S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION IN LIMINE #7 RE: WITNESS IDENTIFICATION BY BUSHY EYEBROWS

the photo is at the end of the document.

 

[vls12345]

Oh, I know this one, thanks to all the time I've spent reading on knife forums due to this case. And the answer doesn't necessarily have to do with planning ahead for frequent use.

(And if BK had used the knife before King Road and had actually ever set foot on the 1st to 2nd floor stairs--which is very very unlikely--prior blood from usage would have been dried and highly unlikely to stick to the handrail.)

They come pre-sharpened to some extent and apparently vary in quality.

However, there are tons of discussions on the knife boards (easily googled) by knife geeks extolling the benefits of different sharpening angles and methods.

And from what I'm reading..while the general consumer ones come sharpened only on the normal cutting edge....um....some people, depending on what they intend to use it for....sharpen the first few inches or all of the "top" edge.

Seeing numerous ex military say that their unit sharpened both sides while other units didn't. Those who sharpened both sides mention doing so specifically in order to increase lethality in hand to hand combat. Also seeing hunters mention sharpening the top edge as well.

And with that, I'm staying off the knife boards for another few weeks.

Thanks for taking one for the team, @gremlin444.

I wonder if a knife expert could testify as to whether or not the murder knife had been sharpened along the point or top edge?

 

[Maat99]

Is it just me, or does this more look like a Hoodie pulled down with a face mask or face gaiter?

Edit:spelling

Not to me. Here is the drawing next to an under armour balaclava. I don’t know what style BK purchased but some of the, even have seams running down the sides of the front just like the picture.

 

[gremlin444]

I thought saw that it was paid for with a gift card somewhere.

The only mention of a gift card that I can find is here:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/031725-Defendants-Obj-States-MiL-RE-Self-Authentication-Records.pdf

"42. Target financial records (AV000253; AV000263; AV000861; AV000864) AV000253 This disclosure is 51 pages of receipts from Target. The State has not provided certification for these records. AV000263 This disclosure contains an email trail regarding a gift card issued in 2014. A certification is disclosed but no records are attached. "

In the state's response they said "The State no longer intends to rely on this evidence. If the State does, it will lay the proper foundation at trial."

To me, that indicates that BK didn't use a gift card to purchase any of the items related to the murders (equipment or clothing).

Anyone see anything elsewhere a gift card?

 

[al66pine]

Model of 1122 King as an Exhibit. Imperfect?

Defense did not object to the demolition of 1122 KIng Rd house, but now their expert has all kinds of issues with a model replica the state wants to use, because, well, because among other things, it isn't going to have furniture, and also shows associated topography, and it is going to take him a while to analyze all the data, (apparently 4 months is not enough time) and he is going to have to plan a day trip to go look at it, when it is created, and... from the filing today...

9. ... I have been informed that the model will not have any furniture, original materials or other objects that take up space in the normal layout of the residence. The absence of these features can influence the appearance of spatial relationships as they actually existed and were captured in original photos and video...

10. Finally, on March 14, 2025, I was provided with the data from which the model will be built. This data includes over 100 individual 3D scans that have been stitched together and include not only the residence, but the topography of the surrounding landscape. Assessing this data will take considerable time and then examining the finished product and verifying scale, dimension and completeness will take additional time on top of that...

11. Once the download has been completed the analysis will take approximately one or two days to assess the scan data. After my analysis of the scan data is complete, I will need to arrange a viewing of the exhibit and a description as to how the scan data was translated into the actual physical exhibit needs to be provided.

12. Traveling to examine the model created and documenting what may be needed to further assess it are things that are not built into my schedule at this time...

Methinks the defense doth protest too much. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032625+Defendants+Notice+of+Filing+Dec+iso+Obj+to+States+MIL+RE+Admissibility+of+Demonstrative+Exhibits.pdf

@SteveP Thx for post w your comments, quotes and link. Yep, you got it.

Expert: "it isn't going to have furniture,"
No worries, pretty sure someone here can fix that right up w Barbie Malibu Dream House* furniture. If not, there's always Leggo. /s
Seriously, on CX is def going ask DM about furniture - missing from model- btwn her & the intruder, and later in closing, argue that DM could not possibly have observed bushy eyebrows/projecting brow/mask, etc.
And on CX, point finger at model prompting Wit. to say a fast food bag is missing there so I can't get my bearings in the model? As @Megnut posted (my paraphrasing), So What?

Expert: "absence... can influence the appearance of spatial relationships as they actually existed"
But if DM's testimony is (basically) that while standing inside her room and close to the door (maybe w her hand on the door, the jamb, or doorknob), she saw the intruder passing by at the closest point, what---one yard and at the furthest point, three or four yards away, approaching the exterior door, I'm missing the point about absence influencing anything.

Even if the model was ridiculously out of scale, on DX or redirect, prosecution can say to DM on the stand, I'm going to walk away one step at a time, and ask that you tell me when I'm at the same distance as the intruder was as he walked past you at your room door. Let the jury see it w their own eyes.

Seems prosecution will have a counter-punch for every jab in ^ motion, pre-trial and/or at trial. imo.

__________________________________________
*

Barbie Malibu House Dollhouse Playset With 25+ Furniture And Accessories (6 Rooms)

Check out the Barbie Malibu House Playset FXG57 feautring two-story dollhouse with play spaces and accessories. Explore more Barbie dolls and playsets at our Barbie shop today!

shop.mattel.com

LoL

 

[detectivewannab]

Attacking DM is a huge mistake.

 

[Boxer]

The only mention of a gift card that I can find is here:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/031725-Defendants-Obj-States-MiL-RE-Self-Authentication-Records.pdf

"42. Target financial records (AV000253; AV000263; AV000861; AV000864) AV000253 This disclosure is 51 pages of receipts from Target. The State has not provided certification for these records. AV000263 This disclosure contains an email trail regarding a gift card issued in 2014. A certification is disclosed but no records are attached. "

In the state's response they said "The State no longer intends to rely on this evidence. If the State does, it will lay the proper foundation at trial."

To me, that indicates that BK didn't use a gift card to purchase any of the items related to the murders (equipment or clothing).

Anyone see anything elsewhere a gift card?

I dont see any either.
But that doc is full of surveillance footage pulled from many businesses along highway 95 on 11/13/22.
AT is claiming it's an overwhelming amount of hours.
Maybe try starting by looking at 4:20-5am on 11/13/22.

 

[Cool Cats]

BBM

You are correct, we don't know much about BK. Often it seems we think we do based on anonymous source media reports. Or people believe information gleaned from social media they believe was written by BK, while nothing has been proven in that regard for those sources. Or people believ named media sources reporting what THEY SAY happened with BK over a decade ago. While these sources could be credible, they aren't under oath and may have their own reasons for reporting-- 15 minutes of fame, historical "issues" with BK that were never resolved, and so on. People on WS are free to believe those sources but they aren't "proof."
MOO

Alot of people who knew him and met him have talked about him and not one person has said he has physical weaknesses. In fact, I believe he boxed and would wrestle around and headlock his friend.

His own defense says he is a runner and hiker. He appears very strong and athletic looking, like a guy who could easily overpower and hurt someone.

Casey Arntz: My brother has since come out to say that even though they were friends, Bryan bullied him.

Casey Arntz: He had said that he would put him in like choke holds and stuff like that.

In this yearbook photo, Bryan Kohberger's caption said he aspired to be an Army Ranger.

Never-before-seen photos and details about the man accused of murdering four Idaho college students

A portrait of Bryan Kolberger from people who were once close to the alleged killer.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[MassGuy]

You just made me think…knives come pre sharpened, right? Possibly the sharpest they’ll ever be? Why would one buy a sharpener at the same time? Well, I’d guess it’s because they intend to use the knife a lot and expect it to dull quickly. Is this another sign of BK’s intent to become a serial killer? Was the knife used before King Rd? Is it possible some of the unknown blood DNA like the spot on the handrail is actually from a previous victim?

This was 8 months prior to the murders, so it's possible he planned to use it for other things, or even did use it for other things.

I highly doubt it was used before in a murder. As for that blood spot, it's in an area of the house he did not travel and has no corresponding blood (other blood drops) that one would expect if he had cut himself. I believe it is entirely unrelated.

He comes in the back door, goes up to the third floor to commit the first murders, comes back down to the second and commits the final two murders, and leaves out the back door. This is supported by the timeline, the crime scene itself, and Dylan's account.

So it just doesn't track that he'd be anywhere near that railing between the bottom two floors.