4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[schooling]

We may not like it being applied in this case, but in general, it's actually a pretty big deal that officers arrived on the scene of a homicide and did not separate the witnesses before they were questioned. The theory is, they could influence each other. At that time, officers had no idea what was going on, so separating them should have been one of the first steps once it was clear this was a homicide investigation. It's the same reason we don't allow witnesses in the courtroom until they've testified.

MOO.

I'm not sure I've seen this standard applied to anyone under these circumstances. They sound devastated on the phone. In mourning. LE probably looked at their hands for injuries, their clothing, assessed the scene, their rooms and made the right call IMO

Even the suspicious husband gets a "come down to the station tonight" or "come down to the station tomorrow morning"

As far as the other students, they weren't there when the crime took place. If LE tried to 'clear crime scenes' by separating everyone who is in and around it hours and hours after the fact that would be a complete waste of resources and time.

If caveats exist, this is the time.

MOO

 

[Sachi]

I’ve been looking at the time line. Wondering about what the prosecution will bring forth about his activity the day before and weeks leading up to the murders.

 

[Cool Cats]

We may not like it being applied in this case, but in general, it's actually a pretty big deal that officers arrived on the scene of a homicide and did not separate the witnesses before they were questioned. The theory is, they could influence each other. At that time, officers had no idea what was going on, so separating them should have been one of the first steps once it was clear this was a homicide investigation. It's the same reason we don't allow witnesses in the courtroom until they've testified.

MOO.

Speaking of not allowing witnesses in the courtroom until they've testified, this issue came up with Bryan's family.

Idaho Murders: Bryan Kohberger's Family May Be Called To Testify

Bryan Kohberger could potentially face testimony from his own family members in his upcoming murder trial.

theblast.com

Bryan Kohberger's lawyers had asked for his family to be granted priority seating at the trial, but the prosecutors argued against it in a recent filing.

"The State may call member(s) of the Kohberger family to testify at trial," Deputy Latah County Prosecutor Ashley Jennings wrote in a court filing to Judge Steven Hippler. The State anticipates the Court will exclude witnesses from the courtroom so that they cannot hear other witnesses' testimony."

Elsewhere in the filing, Jennings argued that the accused family doesn't have the same legal rights as the victims.

"Defendant requests that members of his family be granted the same rights as the victim's families, however, the immediate families of homicide victims have constitutional and statutory rights to attend pursuant to [the] Idaho Constitution…There is no comparable constitutional or statutory provisions affording a defendant's family these same rights."

Jennings also shut down Kohberger's lawyers' claims that not giving his family priority seating would violate his Sixth Amendment rights.

"The Defendant has a constitutional and statutory right to a public trial, but that does not extend to Defendant's choosing whom sits in the courtroom," the prosecutor included in her filing.

 

[jepop]

BBM

The Director of compliance certification, which described the 7 day retention, was referring to the GLDC file in this case.
GLDC FILE NUMBER 3586353
Page 9

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-States+Reply+to+Defendants+Objection+to+the+States+MIL+RE+ATT+Timing+Advance+Records.pdf

SR
page 4
The AT&T Timing Advance data was obtained by the FBI. using an internal source at AT&T. Mr. Boyd Jackson, who is not associated with the GLDC working group. GLDC was not used to obtain this data. A forensic examination of the AT&T Timing Advance records in the State's possession show Mr. Jackson's association with the reports.

Page 7
View attachment 575092

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032625+Defendants+Notice+of+Filing+Affidavit+iso+Obj+to+the+States+MIL+RE+ATT+Timing+Advance+Records.pdf

JMO

The AT&T data you highlight in your post, which is referenced by Sy Ray in his affidavit, is not BK's for Nov 13th just to be clear here. He is referencing the data LE obtained for the tower dump, two of the victims and a third person. All of this data was requested via MPD warrants ( and likely made available via the FBI's non GLDC channel) within seven days of Nov 13th and thus retrievable. Moo

The State's response to defense's objection ( you linked above) clarifies two things. 1) that AT &T did not routinely provide timing advance data prior to June 2023 by legal demand (ie GLDC IMO) and 2) prior to June 2023 AT&T only retained such data for seven days. Moo nothing in the sworn affidavit under pain of perjury by AT&T employee Mr Gordon contradicts that. AT&T never supplied either the FBI or MPD via warrant with advance timing data for BK for Nov 13th. IMO

Sy Ray has made some extremely dubious and imo foolish accusations in his affidavit. Imo the FBI did what it does outside the GLDC channel to ensure MPD received timing advance data for the tower dump etc as mentioned above, and this worked because those records were requested within the seven day retention period.

From the state's response as noted above, it can be logically inferred that the FBI were unsuccessful in obtaining AT&T timing advance data for BK (probably attempted between 19th and 23rd Dec) using their non GLDC related channel. Thus, when MPD issued their standard warrant for BK's phone records, including timing advance (as they had done prior with earlier warrants) AT&T was unable to provide the timing advance data. Jmo

I hope Judge Hippler reverses his decision after reading this affidavit by Sy Ray with it's speculative and inflammatory accusations against Ashley Jennings, SE Balance and the entire prosecution. Imo it would be best to definitively show up his accusations as false which the state would achieve with ease under cross Imo.

However, given testimony might be time consuming because AT&T employees (Gordon and perhaps others down the chain), Ashley Jennings and even SE Balance might need to testify, maybe Hippler will elect to review sworn affidavits of AJ and any additional relevant employees of AT&,T, and possibly SE Balance if required. Given the speculative and quite frankly slanderous nature of SY Ray's accusations, I don't think the state will have a problem getting a sworn affidavit from SE Balance at this point. Jmo

Moo, this is a massive mis-step by the defense. Judge Hippler will want this put to rest and I look forward to his future ruling and accompanying memorandum in favour of the prosecution. Sy Ray has really got this wrong and he won't walk away from this without that being shown to the Court and the public. All Moo.

 

[Warwick7]

The AT&T data you highlight in your post, which is referenced by Sy Ray in his affidavit, is not BK's for Nov 13th just to be clear here. He is referencing the data LE obtained for the tower dump, two of the victims and a third person. All of this data was requested via MPD warrants ( and likely made available via the FBI's non GLDC channel) within seven days of Nov 13th and thus retrievable. Moo

The State's response to defense's objection ( you linked above) clarifies two things. 1) that AT &T did not routinely provide timing advance data prior to June 2023 by legal demand (ie GLDC IMO) and 2) prior to June 2023 AT&T only retained such data for seven days. Moo nothing in the sworn affidavit under pain of perjury by AT&T employee Mr Gordon contradicts that. AT&T never supplied either the FBI or MPD via warrant with advance timing data for BK for Nov 13th. IMO

Sy Ray has made some extremely dubious and imo foolish accusations in his affidavit. Imo the FBI did what it does outside the GLDC channel to ensure MPD received timing advance data for the tower dump etc as mentioned above, and this worked because those records were requested within the seven day retention period.

From the state's response as noted above, it can be logically inferred that the FBI were unsuccessful in obtaining AT&T timing advance data for BK (probably attempted between 19th and 23rd Dec) using their non GLDC related channel. Thus, when MPD issued their standard warrant for BK's phone records, including timing advance (as they had done prior with earlier warrants) AT&T was unable to provide the timing advance data. Jmo

I hope Judge Hippler reverses his decision after reading this affidavit by Sy Ray with it's speculative and inflammatory accusations against Ashley Jennings, SE Balance and the entire prosecution. Imo it would be best to definitively show up his accusations as false which the state would achieve with ease under cross Imo.

However, given testimony might be time consuming because AT&T employees (Gordon and perhaps others down the chain), Ashley Jennings and even SE Balance might need to testify, maybe Hippler will elect to review sworn affidavits of AJ and any additional relevant employees of AT&,T, and possibly SE Balance if required. Given the speculative and quite frankly slanderous nature of SY Ray's accusations, I don't think the state will have a problem getting a sworn affidavit from SE Balance at this point. Jmo

Moo, this is a massive mis-step by the defense. Judge Hippler will want this put to rest and I look forward to his future ruling and accompanying memorandum in favour of the prosecution. Sy Ray has really got this wrong and he won't walk away from this without that being shown to the Court and the public. All Moo.

BAM!!!!!!

 

[katydid23]

The AT&T data you highlight in your post, which is referenced by Sy Ray in his affidavit, is not BK's for Nov 13th just to be clear here. He is referencing the data LE obtained for the tower dump, two of the victims and a third person. All of this data was requested via MPD warrants ( and likely made available via the FBI's non GLDC channel) within seven days of Nov 13th and thus retrievable. Moo

The State's response to defense's objection ( you linked above) clarifies two things. 1) that AT &T did not routinely provide timing advance data prior to June 2023 by legal demand (ie GLDC IMO) and 2) prior to June 2023 AT&T only retained such data for seven days. Moo nothing in the sworn affidavit under pain of perjury by AT&T employee Mr Gordon contradicts that. AT&T never supplied either the FBI or MPD via warrant with advance timing data for BK for Nov 13th. IMO

Sy Ray has made some extremely dubious and imo foolish accusations in his affidavit. Imo the FBI did what it does outside the GLDC channel to ensure MPD received timing advance data for the tower dump etc as mentioned above, and this worked because those records were requested within the seven day retention period.

From the state's response as noted above, it can be logically inferred that the FBI were unsuccessful in obtaining AT&T timing advance data for BK (probably attempted between 19th and 23rd Dec) using their non GLDC related channel. Thus, when MPD issued their standard warrant for BK's phone records, including timing advance (as they had done prior with earlier warrants) AT&T was unable to provide the timing advance data. Jmo

I hope Judge Hippler reverses his decision after reading this affidavit by Sy Ray with it's speculative and inflammatory accusations against Ashley Jennings, SE Balance and the entire prosecution. Imo it would be best to definitively show up his accusations as false which the state would achieve with ease under cross Imo.

However, given testimony might be time consuming because AT&T employees (Gordon and perhaps others down the chain), Ashley Jennings and even SE Balance might need to testify, maybe Hippler will elect to review sworn affidavits of AJ and any additional relevant employees of AT&,T, and possibly SE Balance if required. Given the speculative and quite frankly slanderous nature of SY Ray's accusations, I don't think the state will have a problem getting a sworn affidavit from SE Balance at this point. Jmo

Moo, this is a massive mis-step by the defense. Judge Hippler will want this put to rest and I look forward to his future ruling and accompanying memorandum in favour of the prosecution. Sy Ray has really got this wrong and he won't walk away from this without that being shown to the Court and the public. All Moo.

THANK YOU for the much needed clarification. I think Sy Ray is making some very bold accusations. It needs to be cleared up. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I’ve been looking at the time line. Wondering about what the prosecution will bring forth about his activity the day before and weeks leading up to the murders.

Prosecutors have BK's "click" history and cell phone "ping" history. Even history after the murders where he appears to be searching for a knife replacement. There is also a history of his failings in his PhD program and an "unsettling"
college essay he wrote.

According to newly released court documents, Kohberger allegedly purchased a black balaclava nearly a year before a witness reported seeing a masked man inside the home.

New Court Filings Shed Light On Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Activities Months Before Killings

Court filings in the Idaho murders case have shed light on the events that may have led up to accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged act.

www.yahoo.com

Prosecutors revealed that Kohberger bought the face covering on January 10, 2022, at a Dick's Sporting Goods store in Pittsburgh, eleven months before the fatal stabbings on November 13, 2022.

Prosecutors also pointed to Kohberger's online shopping history, which they say includes the purchase of a combat-style knife, a sheath, and a sharpener from Amazon approximately eight months before the attack.

Idaho Student Killings Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Chilling Essay Suggests He Knew His Way Around A Crime Scene​

MSN

In the unsettling college essay, Kohberger detailed how crime scene investigators use "fiber-free" overalls, gloves, and booties to prevent contaminating evidence with their own DNA and fingerprints.

Kohberger also explored multiple facets of crime scene investigation and repeatedly stressed the importance of safeguarding the area from contamination. Furthermore, he pointed out that domestic partners are often the primary suspects in criminal cases.

In another part of the essay, Kohberger discussed how perpetrators might introduce items into the crime scene to mislead investigators.

"Even if there was an item introduced to the scene by an offender to throw off investigators, it is not the job of the criminal investigator processing the crime scene to jump to conclusions," Kohberger wrote in the chilling piece.

 

[Sachi]

Prosecutors have BK's "click" history and cell phone "ping" history. Even history after the murders where he appears to be searching for a knife replacement. There is also a history of his failings in his PhD program and an "unsettling"
college essay he wrote.

According to newly released court documents, Kohberger allegedly purchased a black balaclava nearly a year before a witness reported seeing a masked man inside the home.

New Court Filings Shed Light On Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Activities Months Before Killings

Court filings in the Idaho murders case have shed light on the events that may have led up to accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged act.

www.yahoo.com

Prosecutors revealed that Kohberger bought the face covering on January 10, 2022, at a Dick's Sporting Goods store in Pittsburgh, eleven months before the fatal stabbings on November 13, 2022.

Prosecutors also pointed to Kohberger's online shopping history, which they say includes the purchase of a combat-style knife, a sheath, and a sharpener from Amazon approximately eight months before the attack.

Idaho Student Killings Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Chilling Essay Suggests He Knew His Way Around A Crime Scene​

MSN

In the unsettling college essay, Kohberger detailed how crime scene investigators use "fiber-free" overalls, gloves, and booties to prevent contaminating evidence with their own DNA and fingerprints.

Kohberger also explored multiple facets of crime scene investigation and repeatedly stressed the importance of safeguarding the area from contamination. Furthermore, he pointed out that domestic partners are often the primary suspects in criminal cases.

In another part of the essay, Kohberger discussed how perpetrators might introduce items into the crime scene to mislead investigators.

"Even if there was an item introduced to the scene by an offender to throw off investigators, it is not the job of the criminal investigator processing the crime scene to jump to conclusions," Kohberger wrote in the chilling piece.

Right.thank you for this. Thinking about the day before , what was he doing, where was he. Did he know Kaylee got the auto , did he see that she returned for the weekend via social media, Was he seen anywhere she or Maddy were the day(s) before? Was he caught on camera watching there movement? Just thinking about it.what evidence of preparation , stalking, surveilling the prosecution has including all of the above.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

As I reflect on LE, the Prosecution, the Evidence and the Judge I am so pleased. It’s been a long road but I’m certain we will be happy with the ending. I’m convinced that the SOB will get his just reward.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I thought saw that it was paid for with a gift card somewhere.

So on any of this did we ever hear an exact account of what DM actually said? We just hear what AT say DM said was in the doc. Say the doc said DM "heard Kaylee say someone is here?" Or "what sounded like Kaylee" And AT is putting her OWN interpretation of that meant DM was SURE it was Kaylee, but that not what she said. I've seen AT do that so very many times. (I don't have an example, but when I find one I'll post it).

It doesn't make the PCA or what DM said false at all unless the exact words in DMs affidavit used "sure" ot "positive". It means in her normal world, she heard the dog, assumed it was Kaylee playing with the dog and heard a female voice say "someone is here" so who wouldn't have assumed Kaylee at that point? (I still think it was Xana and she said "Is someone here"? Jmo) AT cannot possibly mean that DM didn't see someone strange in her house. Obviously there was.

If she wants to hit with DM being inebriated, ok. She just happened to see bushy eyebrows and the idiot who left the sheath that is for a knife consistent with the weapon that was used to kill four people and also left his DNA on it happens to have bushy eyebrows and supposedly was never in that house. Nothing to see here.

As if bushy eyebrows aren't an identifier of many people who did not leave DNA evidence behind......

Have we seen any official statement by DM published anywhere? (I miss so many things)

In my thinking (like a thesaurus), in describing who DM saw — she could have said a “prominent brow line”; “dark, strong eyebrows”; “thick, hairy brows”; or any number of words that would factually describe BD’s eye area. “Bushy eyebrows” are just the words that popped out in her terror that morning.

I find it annoying that defense is so fixated on “bushy eyebrows” because there are a number of ways to describe what was showing through the balaclava opening and they would still seemingly describe BK. Eliminating “bushy eyebrows” from approved testimony language is not going to remove one of BK’s strongest features. BK will always have dominate eyebrows unless he tweezes and thins them for the trial.

OMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Right.thank you for this. Thinking about the day before , what was he doing, where was he. Did he know Kaylee got the auto , did he see that she returned for the weekend via social media, Was he seen anywhere she or Maddy were the day(s) before? Was he caught on camera watching there movement? Just thinking about it.what evidence of preparation , stalking, surveilling the prosecution has including all of the above.

I heard he didn't show up for class the next day.... not fact.

But yes, what exactly was he doing? I believe he was still teaching because students have made remarks on his demeanor post murders. So sounds like he was tied to the University in that time period.
Cameras are everywhere so there could be footage of him out in public etc.....

2 Cents

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Just so you know DD in Moscow is affordable-ish (pretty competitive compared to larger areas). If you are a member you don't pay fees, you can't control all of the costs but it's reasonable (often no delivery fees, up charges, etc.). Items are what you pay at the restaurant + tax & small tip. Perhaps it's different elsewhere. JMOO

Looking at their menu now on the local app, they even have build your own meal where you select four items for 15 bucks (not that I have ever ordered from Jack in The Box in Pullman). I imagine that plus tax and tip gets you to $22.

This is true in our area, too, and most young people “join” DD for these benefits. Saves a lot of $$ otherwise those extra charges really do add up.

 

[Warwick7]

I drifted past the Konig stuff and rest is a hoot!
GH and his bro talk computer is a awesome!!

 

[sunshineray]

AT really really wants to suppress some of those texts between the survivors and their friends. I wish we knew exactly what they were saying. I know a few snippets have been released, but I'm sure there is much more.

It seems to me AT just goes for suppression on every blessed thing the prosecution has added to discovery. It'a-what ya got, ok suppress, suppress, suppress motions. I get that's the way Defense goes but "bushy eyebrows" and "murder" being said in court are no-no's? I suppose if that balaclava had a cutout mouth and ear holes too, "big ears" and "thin lips" would also need to be suppressed, if they were sticking out and prominent?. JMO

 

[Warwick7]

Right.thank you for this. Thinking about the day before , what was he doing, where was he. Did he know Kaylee got the auto , did he see that she returned for the weekend via social media, Was he seen anywhere she or Maddy were the day(s) before? Was he caught on camera watching there movement? Just thinking about it.what evidence of preparation , stalking, surveilling the prosecution has including all of the above.

M00 is he was after MM. And finding KG in there, I'm sure he was took by surprise.

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

I wonder if detectives tried to look through camera footage of the Pullman area, of the weeks before and after the murders, to see if BK was going out and about on late-night rides, where shopping, how he looked , etc.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder if detectives tried to look through camera footage of the Pullman area, of the weeks before and after the murders, to see if BK was going out and about on late-night rides, where shopping, how he looked , etc.

I’m sure they pulled whatever they could. Hopefully they were able to retrieve video of his previous surveillance missions too.

 

[Sachi]

M00 is he was after MM. And finding KG in there, I'm sure he was took by surprise.

Just thinking, did he drive by on other occasions, suited up and prepared to kill, turning off his phone prior but opportunity wasn't there so, turns phone back on and returned to his apt in Pullman. Also, I read many posts theorizing that MM was his target, What is the evidence that points to that conclusion? Thanks in advance.

 

[MassGuy]

Just thinking, did he drive by on other occasions, suited up and prepared to kill, turning off his phone prior but opportunity wasn't there so, turns phone back on and returned to his apt in Pullman. Also, I read many posts theorizing that MM was his target, What is the evidence that points to that conclusion? Thanks in advance.

It's possible, but I think if that happened it was within days of the murders. I say this because his last documented trip to the area late at night, was November, 7. So it would have to be between the 8th and the 12th.

MM being the primary target comes from early social media rumors that appear to be untrue. But that doesn't mean she wasn't the primary target. The evidence seems to show her bedroom was the first one he went to, and he may have been able to see her through her bedroom window on surveillance missions (assuming he parked behind the house).

This kind of leads into a theory I have.

I'm totally open to the idea Kohberger went to the house intent on killing multiple victims, but here's a scenario where he has a primary target and this ends the same way.

The evidence appears to show that he made 23 late night trips to the vicinity of the crime scene. If he parked behind the house, he'd have a view of MM's bedroom; It's possible he fixated on her.

On the night of the murders he enters through the second floor sliding door, and makes his way up to MM's bedroom on the third floor. His plan immediately goes awry when he discovers she's not alone in bed. At this point he kills both victims, as he can't leave a survivor.

Minutes prior to this, Xana's DoorDash was delivered. It's possible she was in her bedroom or up and about, and saw or heard BK as he came back down. At this point he has to kill Xana and Ethan, for the same reason he killed KG.

These murders do not go according to plan, as all indications are that Xana fought back. It's noisy, and the dog starts barking. He's spooked, and worried police might be on the way, which is why instead of killing DM (who he likely saw), he walks past her, speeding away minutes later (after stripping off gloves and coveralls).

 

[Warwick7]

It's possible, but I think if that happened it was within days of the murders. I say this because his last documented trip to the area late at night, was November, 7. So it would have to be between the 8th and the 12th.

MM being the primary target comes from early social media rumors that appear to be untrue. But that doesn't mean she wasn't the primary target. The evidence seems to show her bedroom was the first one he went to, and he may have been able to see her through her bedroom window on surveillance missions (assuming he parked behind the house).

This kind of leads into a theory I have.

I'm totally open to the idea Kohberger went to the house intent on killing multiple victims, but here's a scenario where he has a primary target and this ends the same way.

The evidence appears to show that he made 23 late night trips to the vicinity of the crime scene. If he parked behind the house, he'd have a view of MM's bedroom; It's possible he fixated on her.

On the night of the murders he enters through the second floor sliding door, and makes his way up to MM's bedroom on the third floor. His plan immediately goes awry when he discovers she's not alone in bed. At this point he kills both victims, as he can't leave a survivor.

Minutes prior to this, Xana's DoorDash was delivered. It's possible she was in her bedroom or up and about, and saw or heard BK as he came back down. At this point he has to kill Xana and Ethan, for the same reason he killed KG.

These murders do not go according to plan, as all indications are that Xana fought back. It's noisy, and the dog starts barking. He's spooked, and worried police might be on the way, which is why instead of killing DM (who he likely saw), he walks past her, speeding away minutes later (after stripping off gloves and coveralls).

I have begun to think after 4:12am when she gets off tictok, maybe 4:14 she leaves her bedroom to go to the bathroom (or get a drink) she sees him and yells "someone's here."

He sees her and runs after her to her bedroom...