4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[Megnut]

I don't think the goal was petty thievery but voyeurism and control. M00

"One day, the woman returned to her apartment and found that someone had broken in and moved items around the home – but that nothing was missing."

"Following its installation, [cameras he installed] investigators believe Mr Kohberger used the security cameras to spy on the woman as – knowing her wifi password – he was able to tap into the cameras when within close proximity to the apartment."

Bryan Kohberger allegedly broke into student’s home before Idaho murders

Months later, Mr Kohberger is accused of breaking into an off-campus home in Moscow, Idaho, and stabbing to death Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle and Ethan Chapin

www.the-independent.com

I think that's where his confidence comes from. Stealth.

Even home at Christmas. His childhood home, but still, creeping around while others are sleeping, that's unsettling.

Moving things around, just can't resist? squaring them up? Touching them? Sniffing them? Putting them back but not quite where they'd been. That's also unsettling.

I wonder if he's nocturnal in jail.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

Yes it's weird. BK meets the definition of a mass murderer (FBI uses a threshold of 4), but his psychology doesn't match.

There's a simple explanation for this though; he almost certainly intended to kill a single victim, but things got out of hand.

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

 

[Arkay]

With a population of 93, yes, it is probably safe to say that Albrightsville does not have crosswalks. However, in the 28 years that BK lived there, and the probably at least 10 years that he was a licensed driver, I am pretty sure we can assume that he, at least on occasion, was in Wilkes-Barre, population about 44,000, which is about 35 mins away, or Scranton, population about 76,000, which is about 45 mins away. Also, DeSales University, which he aattended, is in the Lehigh Valley area of Pa, which has a population of about 860,000. There are also other smaller towns closeby that are considerably larger than Albrightsville, and may have crosswalks. I think we can be certain that crosswalks were not foreign to BK, so yes, I think most here would call his statement a serious bending of the truth, if not an outright lie. Just some extemporaneous BS from the champ. JMO

BK very specifically said "Where I am from in Pennsylvania, we actually don't have crosswalks." So he was specifically talking about where he is from which is Albrightsville, not Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, Lehigh Valley or any other city in Pennsylvania.

But, to quote Dorothy, he’s not in “Kansas” anymore.

I am going to have to agree with @SteveP here.

BK may have grown up in a rural town without crosswalks, but he was across the country now, and this puzzled “huh, what’s a crosswalk” attitude is absurd. He didn’t just land in Oz that same day.

Where I live, it’s sometimes possible to talk a cop out of a traffic ticket, but any NYC cop would have shut him down at least halfway through. Just for talking too much and wasting their time.

BIG PICTURE: I see the validity of studying this traffic stop, as it gives some insight into the character of Mr. Extemporaneous Champion.

However, he’s not in prison now because he blocked an intersection. It’s going to be a different world trying to get out of a quadruple murder with all the evidence mounted against him. He can try to fend off the prosecution’s questions if he takes the stand, but this time he’s going against professionals, not his peers. They will be prepared and not extemporaneous, but they have the law and evidence on their side.

IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

BK very specifically said "Where I am from in Pennsylvania, we actually don't have crosswalks." So he was specifically talking about where he is from which is Albrightsville, not Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, Lehigh Valley or any other city in Pennsylvania.

So BK said, specifically, “where I come from in Pennsylvania, we don’t actually have crosswalks”.
Unless he is saying this to the police officer as an interesting aside about life back home in PA, what would be his purpose of mentioning this except to try and convince the officer that he has never ever ever seen a cross walk in his his entire life and therefore should be pardoned as some country rube come to town.
And that, would be a lie by design, a complete misrepresentation, as pointed out so masterfully by SteveP.
BK used his champion level extemporaneous speaking skills to get out of this.
I’ll point out that BK is not behind bars for lying or not lying about crosswalks to LE. He’s there because he murdered four college students.

 

[Warwick7]

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

Short version: he wanted to be the ultimate unsolved murderer. He wanted to be stealthy and invade MM's room and slaughter her. The thrill was to kill and get out with house full of people.

 

[Megnut]

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

If MM had been alone, he may have entered on one of his earlier loops. Fatal wounds to MM, silent and deadly.

If DM hadn't been awakened, he wouldn't have heard her.

Chanced to encounter XK on his way out. And EC as well.

Three incidental murders in support of getting away with one.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

Depends if he's a true predator with bits of his brain wiring undeveloped and other bits finely tuned

Predators become fixated on the single target and have narrow vision, exclude the bigger picture. Also can be a symptom of ASD. Tailgating a car could be 'tunnel vision'. Joggers and runners get tunnel vision too, fixated on the end goal and not stopping for the surrounding incidental situations - ever been in a busy city centre and nearly mowed down on a busy street by a tunnel vision jogger who seems to have lost contact with reality and isn't slowing for anyone or anything?

If something had seriously 'aroused' BK to obsessively fixate on a single being in that house, everyone else was inconvenient collateral damage and he could have even 'forgotten' to care or account for them. If he believed he could get to the room of one person unnoticed and taken silent control of that victim, assured of his success (arrogance, lack of self doubt, risk taking), the plan went wrong when two people were sharing a bed.

He didn't scope out and establish facts, he didn't back off and change his plan when he found the two together. At that point he could have fled but it would have caused him a lot of fuss and would have been high risk. Far easier to take both but that was bound to be noisier and not how he'd planned it to go. That alerted the others and then he had more problems. IMO he had one plan and one plan only. He had failed in having a plan B or C or thinking how to retreat from Plan A if it went wrong. All of those thinking styles are that of an activated predatory animal moving in for their kill, they don't usually go for groups they go for singles. IMO JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I think that's where his confidence comes from. Stealth.

Even home at Christmas. His childhood home, but still, creeping around while others are sleeping, that's unsettling.

Moving things around, just can't resist? squaring them up? Touching them? Sniffing them? Putting them back but not quite where they'd been. That's also unsettling.

I wonder if he's nocturnal in jail.

JMO

Wow. That is incredibly creepy. The information about that Dateline, brings up something I have always wondered, did his sister actually give her DNA for LEO to check? His sisters suspected BK was the perpetrator. So, did they actually help LEO?

BK is the only son. I don't know the dynamics of this family, but I wonder if his Mother and Father treated him as the "favorite", no matter how creepy he is, and whatever weird stuff he did. This is speculation, but if BK came home for Christmas, with the plan to just stay home, not going back to Pullman. And his siblings were just done with how weird he is, knowing their parents would never kick him out.

 

[MassGuy]

MassGuy,” intended to kill 1 and it got out of hand.”

Can we discuss this a bit and folks weigh in because I can not understand “the out of hand” as it pertains to a 300% increase of murdering innocent people with a war like machete knife that seems used for .. exactly what he did, a planned , war like crazed killing. Moo

If he planned to only kill one, why in a house full of students? The challenge? Copy cat? Or.. planned and expected/ could have wanted -the possible opportunity to kill more than the single target? Hence the giant knife and where the crime took place.
Because the Variables at that party house were ever changing and he was watching and must have planned accordingly to kill anything to and from.
No?

So if his target was MM, he'd have been able to watch her in her bedroom if he was parked behind the house. I don't know how he came to fixate on her, but this scenario makes the most sense to me.

He knows exactly where her bedroom is, and can see when she's gone to bed. If he was surveilling the house like the prosecution claims, then it's totally reasonable to believe that he also used something like Zillow to help game this all out.

He enters and goes straight to her room, intending to kill her and slip back into the night. He does not plan on someone else being in bed with her, and puts the sheath down so he's able to deal with this curveball (added risk).

He commits the first two murders, but is so thrown off he forgets to pick up the sheath. As he's descending the stairs he happens onto Xana, who represents an immediate threat (calling police). Eventually (there's a lot of ways this could have gone down), he kills her and Ethan.

As for why he'd take this risk, who knows. He's so obsessed with MM he doesn't care, or the house itself represents an ideal target (concealed surveillance opportunity, easy to enter and exit unseen, etc).

 

[mickey2942]

@MassGuy I agree. I also think he was so amped up by the killing, that 2 more, were just part of the adrenaline rush.

 

[katydid23]

snipped for focus....

One question.... In Idaho, can BK legally even make unplanned testimony or does his representation have to place him on a witness list well beforehand for that to happen????

It is NOT up to the defense team to make that decision---it's entirely up to the defendant himself whether he wants to testify or not.

And BK does not have to make the decision until after the State rests its case. Typically the judge will ask the defendant out loud, in front of the jury, if he wants to testify or not. And the judge will instruct him that it is his decision to make, not the defense team's.

"A criminal defendant has a constitutional right to testify in their own defense.This right stems from the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and the Compulsory Process Clause of the Sixth Amendment, which guarantees a fair trial and the ability to present a defense. While the right to testify is not explicitly mentioned in the Constitution, it's been recognized as a fundamental aspect of these clauses. "

 

[Balthazar]

I am aware of what BK said. We will agree to disagree that his intent was to fashion a statement solely for the purpose of deceiving the officer, and hopefully in doing so, talk himself out of a ticket. There would be absolutely no other purpose in telling the officer that, other than to pretend he had no idea what he should do when approaching one. JMO

The fact is, BK did not lie to the officer. Albrightsville doesn't have crosswalks. That is the fact of the matter and that is all that I am pointing out.

Sometimes a fact is just a fact. We need to view this case realistically in order to examine it in detail. He is not charged with lying to the officer and as far as I can tell, he did not lie to the officer. <modsnip> IMO.

 

[Arkay]

So if his target was MM, he'd have been able to watch her in her bedroom if he was parked behind the house. I don't know how he came to fixate on her, but this scenario makes the most sense to me.

He knows exactly where her bedroom is, and can see when she's gone to bed. If he was surveilling the house like the prosecution claims, then it's totally reasonable to believe that he also used something like Zillow to help game this all out.

He enters and goes straight to her room, intending to kill her and slip back into the night. He does not plan on someone else being in bed with her, and puts the sheath down so he's able to deal with this curveball (added risk).

He commits the first two murders, but is so thrown off he forgets to pick up the sheath. As he's descending the stairs he happens onto Xana, who represents an immediate threat (calling police). Eventually (there's a lot of ways this could have gone down), he kills her and Ethan.

As for why he'd take this risk, who knows. He's so obsessed with Xana he doesn't care, or the house itself represents an ideal target (concealed surveillance opportunity, easy to enter and exit unseen, etc).

I tend to agree with this, but I’m curious as to how he didn’t see Kaylee enter MM’s bedroom, because I do believe he must have watched Maddie through her window.

It must have been when he started creeping toward the house and he missed it.

I also believe the other three were collateral damage, bumps in his road plan to do whatever else he planned to do to Maddie.

Even if he was startled by KG being in the same room, same bed as MM, I don’t think he could have stopped himself at that point. Maddie was so tantalizingly close. But the presence of KG, the disruption of his plan and the time he had to now take to kill Kaylee, may have interrupted whatever his plans were for Maddie prior to murdering her.

And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Bryan Kohberger’s legal team won’t be able to tell a jury in his upcoming death penalty trial about his autism diagnosis unless he takes the stand in his own defense, a judge ruled Friday.
[snip]
In another order Friday, Judge Hippler said the jury can hear testimony describing the intruder’s “bushy eyebrows” from the only living witness who saw the person in the house around the time of the killings.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/18/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-murder-trial-autism/index.html

Both rulings are sound IMO. SO Bushy Eyebrow Bryan it is.

I see you have legal experience so you might be right about the rulings being sound. But like some others posting earlier, I'm pretty surprised that any ruling about admissibility of evidence could be made conditional on the defendant testifying. I can't say I've ever heard of a conditional ruling like that-- You want it in? Ok, get him to testify.

My surprise has nothing to do with whether or not autism is relevant to the case. Or whether it should be admitted. My concern is all based on the conditions the judge set. Of course, there are situations where a defendant's testimony could make some previously irrelevant evidence relevant. The door could be opened....But that's not the same as this ruling.
MOO

 

[Warwick7]

I tend to agree with this, but I’m curious as to how he didn’t see Kaylee enter MM’s bedroom, because I do believe he must have watched Maddie through her window.

It must have been when he started creeping toward the house and he missed it.

I also believe the other three were collateral damage, bumps in his road plan to do whatever else he planned to do to Maddie.

Even if he was startled by KG being in the same room, same bed as MM, I don’t think he could have stopped himself at that point. Maddie was so tantalizingly close. But the presence of KG, the disruption of his plan and the time he had to now take to kill Kaylee, may have interrupted whatever his plans were for Maddie prior to murdering her.

And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there.

JMO

She had a blind that she could have been lowered. With her boots and M in the window it may have obscured who else was in the room. M00 he was focused on the lights going out.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think that was a lie. Albrightsville, PA is extremely rural. It is unincorporated and there is no downtown area. Unincorporated means that Albrightsville doesn't have a local government (no mayor, no city council). Typically unincorporated cities or towns were founded in the past and have traditionally existed but have no government and no city services. City services are who decide where stuff like crosswalks and stop signs go, put them in and maintain them. But Albrightsville doesn't have that. Albrightsville is known for not being walkable at all so I don't know where they would put a crosswalk. If you look at a map of the area and where the few restaurants they have are, for example, they are spread out along different country roads and they are all mom and pop type places. They don't even have a major grocery store, just local mom and pop stores. So it's not like typical cities in the US with a downtown area and places you can walk to. To go to a major grocery store, you have to drive to another city. And the schools attended by Albrightsville children are in a different city called Jim Thorpe, PA which has a historic downtown. Because things are so spread out in Albrightsville, you can't walk from one place to another. For these reasons, I very much doubt there are any crosswalks in Albrightsville at all:

Getting Around Albrightsville: Walkability, Public Transit & Biking

Albrightsville transportation for nomads: Walkability 10/100, public transit 15/100, biking 28/100. Plan ahead - limited car-free options available.

nomadlio.com

The 'lie' was that BK tried to pretend he didn't know anything about crosswalks by saying 'where I'm from in PA we don't have cross walks.' But in reality, every other place around him that he drove to did have crosswalks so he knows exactly what they are. He was talking BS.

 

[katydid23]

BK very specifically said "Where I am from in Pennsylvania, we actually don't have crosswalks." So he was specifically talking about where he is from which is Albrightsville, not Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, Lehigh Valley or any other city in Pennsylvania.

Right, but he was trying to pretend he was unfamiliar with crosswalks and that is misleading.

 

[SteveP]

The fact is, BK did not lie to the officer. Albrightsville doesn't have crosswalks. That is the fact of the matter and that is all that I am pointing out.

Sometimes a fact is just a fact. We need to view this case realistically in order to examine it in detail. He is not charged with lying to the officer and as far as I can tell, he did not lie to the officer. These extra false facts are not helpful and are a waste of time in a complex case, IMO.

This looks like a crosswalk to me, complete with walk/don't walk sign. From Google Maps, PA-534, at Route 903, Albrightsville, Pa. I found others. Fact is, Albrightsville does have crosswalks. Required very little time on Google Maps to find. And yes, fact is, BK did lie to the officer. JMO

 

[Sachi]

I tend to agree with this, but I’m curious as to how he didn’t see Kaylee enter MM’s bedroom, because I do believe he must have watched Maddie through her window.

It must have been when he started creeping toward the house and he missed it.

I also believe the other three were collateral damage, bumps in his road plan to do whatever else he planned to do to Maddie.

Even if he was startled by KG being in the same room, same bed as MM, I don’t think he could have stopped himself at that point. Maddie was so tantalizingly close. But the presence of KG, the disruption of his plan and the time he had to now take to kill Kaylee, may have interrupted whatever his plans were for Maddie prior to murdering her.

And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there.

JMO

“And naturally he had to extinguish X and E to get out of there”


If Maddie had been alone , how do we know he wouldn’t have gone to other rooms, given they were unlocked and continued to kill as many as possible whilst they sleep?

 

[Boxer]

Mowlo

I work at a university, the fourth I've worked at, and at each of these universities, it was not unusual for students to take their cars home during the big breaks, often driving cross-country to do so. I felt it dangerous to do, but the students did not seem to be worried about it. MOO.

I wonder if BK actually planned on returning, without an assistantship. Or, if he had a plan to have his car painted a different color. My musings only.

Agree. They want their cars when they are at home. Renting a car quickly exceeds the cost of a road trip.