4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[otto]

Did they expand on why it's believed Maddie was the target? I thought it was interesting that they stated she was the target and that Kaylee would have surprised him, considering the narrative for so long seemed to be that Kaylee was the target.

My impression was that he had plans for Maddie, having repeatedly reviewed video about assaulting sleeping and drugged women, as well as video about Bundy's MO. Bundy disabled women by hitting them so hard in the head that they were either unconscious, or conscious and incoherent.

Kohberger's plan went sideways within minutes. After entering the house through the unlocked kitchen patio door, and going up the stairs undetected, he found two women, not one, in the bedroom. He had no plan for that situation. It seems that they reacted, so Kohberger pulled off the knife sheath and began frantically stabbing. I wondered whether they initially thought the masked intruder with a knife was a friend playing a prank.

Kohberger lost track of the sheath in the frenzy, and then he heard Xana either calling or coming up the stairs. He left the bedroom so fast that he didn't stop to think about the sheath, and went after Xana. Dateline's explanation that she was attacked running back to her main-floor bedroom made sense. Then her boyfriend was killed.

Next Kohberger felt that sense of relief and calmness that comes with releasing pent-up emotion. For whatever reason - perhaps on a high from the emotional release, he forgot about the sheath and drove away as fast as possible.

The woman who was frozen in fear, I also wonder whether that was another Bundy imitation. When Bundy attacked sorority houses, he killed or severely injured some and not others.

 

[Chloegirl]

My impression was that he had plans for Maddie, having repeatedly reviewed video about assaulting sleeping and drugged women, as well as video about Bundy's MO. Bundy disabled women by hitting them so hard in the head that they were either unconscious, or conscious and incoherent.

Kohberger's plan went sideways within minutes. After entering the house through the unlocked kitchen patio door, and going up the stairs undetected, he found two women, not one, in the bedroom. He had no plan for that situation. It seems that they reacted, so Kohberger pulled off the knife sheath and began frantically stabbing. I wondered whether they initially thought the masked intruder with a knife was a friend playing a prank.

Kohberger lost track of the sheath in the frenzy, and then he heard Xana either calling or coming up the stairs. He left the bedroom so fast that he didn't stop to think about the sheath, and went after Xana. Dateline's explanation that she was attacked running back to her main-floor bedroom made sense. Then her boyfriend was killed.

Next Kohberger felt that sense of relief and calmness that comes with releasing pent-up emotion. For whatever reason - perhaps on a high from the emotional release, he forgot about the sheath and drove away as fast as possible.

The woman who was frozen in fear, I also wonder whether that was another Bundy imitation. When Bundy attacked sorority houses, he killed or severely injured some and not others.

Great post! I agree. Dragging in Waiwaiwai Park as an alibi made me think that is where he wanted to take someone to do away with them differently. It is pure speculation that may have been TBs first murder, Joyce LePage (RIP) although he never confessed to it.

If BK was obsessed with Bundy, and thought that he was guilty of that crime, then imitation is that form of flattery he may have chosen before things went awry.

<modsnip - not an approved source>

 

[Boxer]

My impression was that he had plans for Maddie, having repeatedly reviewed video about assaulting sleeping and drugged women, as well as video about Bundy's MO. Bundy disabled women by hitting them so hard in the head that they were either unconscious, or conscious and incoherent.

Kohberger's plan went sideways within minutes. After entering the house through the unlocked kitchen patio door, and going up the stairs undetected, he found two women, not one, in the bedroom. He had no plan for that situation. It seems that they reacted, so Kohberger pulled off the knife sheath and began frantically stabbing. I wondered whether they initially thought the masked intruder with a knife was a friend playing a prank.

Kohberger lost track of the sheath in the frenzy, and then he heard Xana either calling or coming up the stairs. He left the bedroom so fast that he didn't stop to think about the sheath, and went after Xana. Dateline's explanation that she was attacked running back to her main-floor bedroom made sense. Then her boyfriend was killed.

Next Kohberger felt that sense of relief and calmness that comes with releasing pent-up emotion. For whatever reason - perhaps on a high from the emotional release, he forgot about the sheath and drove away as fast as possible.

The woman who was frozen in fear, I also wonder whether that was another Bundy imitation. When Bundy attacked sorority houses, he killed or severely injured some and not others.

Also, its Maddie's room the attack occurred in.

 

[Miss Poovy]

Keep in mind, this would have been a Sunday morning, when people who do not normally attend church at that time may choose to sleep in a bit longer than on weekdays, and those who do attend, may be up early to get ready to go to services, as his parents perhaps did. Does not seem like the ideal time to be chatting, on Sunday morning, to me. JMO

Maybe their schedule do not align during the week . . . I think it’s been stated his dad worked in maintenance & may start early & probably not up all night star gazing.

 

[otto]

Great post! I agree. Dragging in Waiwaiwai Park as an alibi made me think that is where he wanted to take someone to do away with them differently. It is pure speculation that may have been TBs first murder, Joyce LePage (RIP) although he never confessed to it.

If BK was obsessed with Bundy, then imitation is that form of flattery he may have chosen before things went awry. JMOO

That's interesting! That also makes sense. Bundy killed some in their beds, but when he first murdered, he abducted them from their beds or in public, and took them to the location where they were murdered. Bundy was also a necropheliac - perhaps Kohberger wanted to experiment with that too.

What you suggest seems quite possible. If Maddie had been alone sleeping in her bed, and he had quietly over-powered her, then he could have taken her out of the house and no one would have known what happened. The knife would not necessarily have been used.

It was two women in one room that he could not deal with, so he had no plan within minutes of entering the house.

 

[SteveP]

My impression was that he had plans for Maddie, having repeatedly reviewed video about assaulting sleeping and drugged women, as well as video about Bundy's MO. Bundy disabled women by hitting them so hard in the head that they were either unconscious, or conscious and incoherent.

Kohberger's plan went sideways within minutes. After entering the house through the unlocked kitchen patio door, and going up the stairs undetected, he found two women, not one, in the bedroom. He had no plan for that situation. It seems that they reacted, so Kohberger pulled off the knife sheath and began frantically stabbing. I wondered whether they initially thought the masked intruder with a knife was a friend playing a prank.

Kohberger lost track of the sheath in the frenzy, and then he heard Xana either calling or coming up the stairs. He left the bedroom so fast that he didn't stop to think about the sheath, and went after Xana. Dateline's explanation that she was attacked running back to her main-floor bedroom made sense. Then her boyfriend was killed.

Next Kohberger felt that sense of relief and calmness that comes with releasing pent-up emotion. For whatever reason - perhaps on a high from the emotional release, he forgot about the sheath and drove away as fast as possible.

The woman who was frozen in fear, I also wonder whether that was another Bundy imitation. When Bundy attacked sorority houses, he killed or severely injured some and not others.

I agree with most of what you suggest, except for your thought that both of the girls upstairs reacted. I fully believe Kaylee reacted, and attempted to fight back, and moved to try to escape the bed, as, IIRC, she was up against the wall, almost sitting up, when found, but I do not believe, nor has there been anything I have seen, to suggest that Maddie ever reacted at all. I believe that she was completely passed out/asleep, and was quickly butchered before her body could even involuntarily respond, and as sad as it is, I hope that was the case. JMO

 

[Megnut]

If he can hike this butte in the dark,( I'm thinking uneven ground and were trails well marked for nighttime) how can the defense say that he can't murder 4 young people in various stages of sleep and inebriation within the known time frame?

And who tied his hiking boots for him?

Don't worry, he only couldn't tie his shoelaces twenty odd years ago. Same place he probably left his upside down 5s.

As you say, BK can climb buttes in the dark, button shirts....and with some sweat unsnap a leather sheath.

Far cry from the portrait AT failed to paint.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

LE must believe BK went directly to MM's room, therefore she was the primary target.

Theory being, if BK entered KG's room first, I don't think Murphy would have survived the encounter.

However.... maybe he DID say, it's okay, in here to help you to Murphy, and KG also heard it, and awakened MM to tell her someone was there, KG might have sat up to go check and then suddenly BK was right there.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

Don't worry, he only couldn't tie his shoelaces twenty odd years ago. Same place he probably left his upside down 5s behind to.

As you say, BK can climb buttes in the dark, button shirts....and with some sweat unsnap a leather sheath.

Far cry from the portrait AT failed to paint.

JMO

Funny you should mention that. I started to think about the many faces of BK. It appears there are quite a few presentations of him. That got me thinking that he could be suffering from multiple personality disorder. Could there be many sides to his coin?

Dedicated and committed to ideas (weight loss, rehab, veganism, schooling). Some people perceived him as charming, others flat out creepy. Then there is the face he shows to his family, possibly different ones to each sister and even how he is appearing in court. I am not sure if he is truly Machiavellian, a chameleon who represents a different type of person when he deems appropriate, or lost in a flurry of multiples. Just a stray thought.

 

[mickey2942]

I am watching Dateline now. Interesting theory that BK spent time "carving" Ethan, out of jealousy and hatred.

 

[Megnut]

Funny you should mention that. I started to think about the many faces of BK. It appears there are quite a few presentations of him. That got me thinking that he could be suffering from multiple personality disorder. Could there be many sides to his coin?

Dedicated and committed to ideas (weight loss, rehab, veganism, schooling). Some people perceived him as charming, others flat out creepy. Then there is the face he shows to his family, possibly different ones to each sister and even how he is appearing in court. I am not sure if he is truly Machiavellian, a chameleon who represents a different type of person when he deems appropriate, or lost in a flurry of multiples. Just a stray thought.

If he has multiple personalities, IMO they're all bad.

I think we're seeing that BK tried to mimic normal behavior, with limited success.

His selfies tell me he was cultivating his dark side.

Those hoodie selfies, the stuff of nightmares.

JMO

 

[bugenjoyer]

Funny you should mention that. I started to think about the many faces of BK. It appears there are quite a few presentations of him. That got me thinking that he could be suffering from multiple personality disorder. Could there be many sides to his coin?

Dedicated and committed to ideas (weight loss, rehab, veganism, schooling). Some people perceived him as charming, others flat out creepy. Then there is the face he shows to his family, possibly different ones to each sister and even how he is appearing in court. I am not sure if he is truly Machiavellian, a chameleon who represents a different type of person when he deems appropriate, or lost in a flurry of multiples. Just a stray thought.

just wanna point out that weight loss isn't always a good or healthy thing. couldn't the weight loss be related to the heroin use? imo

 

[al66pine]

BK's Hike as Alibi?

The one thing from Dateline that had me a little confused was the fact that they were talking about how the one group saw him hiking up the hill at night. They seemed to make this sound like it was suspicious. Yes, it is weird but wouldn’t that actually play into the defense’s claims that he was a night owl and actually help them? If his “alibi” is that he was out star gazing the night of the murders, wouldn’t that interaction with the hikers help the defense to say “yes, see, people have witnessed him out at night hiking and possibly star gazing like he claims”. Just food for thought because I couldn’t figure out how that would help prosecutors at all.

@Dayday7 I think I'm following the thought in above ^ but see it differently.

Yes, some evd of a hike in the great outdoors at night may help estab. that a def. (not necessarily in this case) was a night owl, if nighttime HitGOaN habit was relevant. Here I'm missing the relevance.
These homicides ---
- did not occur in time approaching sunset, like ^ hike.
- did not occur in the great outdoors.
- and IIRC, did not occur until 4:00a.m.- ish, even if the hike occurred the exact evening preceding those deaths (which I don't recall that it did, but ICBWrong).

Another point---
the time frame for the deaths is narrowly book-ended by digital/electronic evd, a combo of surviving housemates' texts, sec. cam vid's, etc, into a time slot of what, ~10min.

Whatever BK was doing at (almost) sunset preceding those deaths is not particularly relevant to the crim case for the four deaths & burglary offenses.

Even if from 8pm to midnight before the deaths, if BK had been w ten others in person, engaged in Bible study, or leading a BoyScout law enforcement post, or bowling in a WSU league, and if all of them were ready, willing, and able to get up on their hind legs, climb onto the witness stand, take the oath, and testify for the def., what would that prove about BK's whereabouts in those min.'s after 4am?

imo

 

[al66pine]

BK's Hike as Alibi? Pt. 2.
@Dayday7

Per ID law, for the def. to claim an alibi, they must give notice to the State of
- the specific places where def. claims to be at time of alleged crime,
- the witness(es) names and addresses the def. intends to rely on.

AFAIK, the def. has not provided the State w this info. Deadline approaching.

But BK is not prevented from testifying in his own behalf.

Good luck w that, BK, hike, Bible study, Boy Scouts, Bowling, what-ev. /s.
Even if at just past 4am.

_________________________
"(1) ...Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi...."
"(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
"(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section."
(bbm)

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

 

[Arkay]

I am watching Dateline now. Interesting theory that BK spent time "carving" Ethan, out of jealousy and hatred.

I agree, it seems like such a weird thing to do.

IMO it was either jealousy and hatred, or it may have simply been more pragmatic.

He didn’t know he’d have to also fight off a big guy, so he went to plan B and crippled Ethan, rendering E. unable to get off the bed and fight back.

Just my speculation.

 

[gremlin444]

Thank you, @Rolypolyoly.

Your post reminded me of a comment I meant to make weeks ago, but had entirely forgotten.

With respect to the opinion of the original poster, who pondered that common sense would dictate that the girls must have had a Ring camera for security….

IMO it would’ve been so helpful, and that’s why I feel certain they did not have one.

*snipped*

That, and impenetrable locks on any type of entrance, especially a sliding door.

The best case scenario, of course, would have been if the motion detector had shown this stranger trying to get in. As Xana was awake, maybe none of this would have even happened.

I’m certainly not blaming the victims, but I am indulging in hindsight and wishful thinking.

JMO

Sadly, as renters, they would be at the mercy of their landlord/property manager for most of those things.

Pictures of the front door look like that was a pretty secure lock. And I don't believe BK even attempted to use that door.

If we go by what Dateline had to say, the sliding glass door had been left unlocked and BK didn't need to break in. I expect DM or BF were able to tell LE whether that door was regularly left unlocked (that was the impression that I got from a very early interview with XK's dad).

And yes, any of the girls could have bought a Ring system themselves and installed it but there you get into issues with the landlord possibly not being cool with drilled holes, etc. There are some screw free mountings that you can use for rentals, but they aren't too well known.

 

[mickey2942]

BK knew his PhD plan was over. No wonder he had rage and anger. He planned to get a PhD, and that "plan" was completely ripped away from him. Something, he could not control.

 

[Justice101]

BK knew his PhD plan was over. No wonder he had rage and anger. He planned to get a PhD, and that "plan" was completely ripped away from him. Something, he could not control.

Yes, and like nothing but a weak person would do: Blaming the girl that complained about him as a TA...adding insult to injury.

Time for revenge for all the women who had rejected h9im in one way or another.

 

[minazoe]

My theory is he was waiting for the news to hit..that's why he was calling his parents ..he was hoping to be talking to them when it came on the tv as breaking news..but the hours dragged on..so he drove over there again ..he was probably dying to see some blue and red flashing light and hear some sirens. It must have felt like an eternity. Those had to be some odd conversations he was having. mOO

 

[gremlin444]

I can't imagine 24 hours in car a driving cross country with his father that someone didn't bring it up... becasue of all the publicity.

And if the subject of the Murders in Moscow came up, BK would have said something along the tunes of "Yeh, it's crazy! Everyone is scared. We can't believe there is a murdered in town. We never thought anything like this could happen in here. I wish I worked for the Moscow PD and could find this SOB who did this senseless act! I'd nail them in a heartbeat. People are even scared over here in Pullman. The rumor is the person was military. The other rumor was it was drug deal gone bad."

Thinking of this... what was known at the time, at least what was publicly released?:
1) Death by sharp object like a knife?
2) White Elantra?

Is that it?

I think that's pretty close to what was officially out in the public at that point.

*****
Article from Dec 15th with interview with the coroner:

Idaho murders: Coroner weighs in on toxicology reports, describes her role in case

The Moscow coroner, who also happens to run her own law office in the center of town, said the toxicology reports for four slain University of Idaho students aren't relevant to the case.

www.fox9.com

"The students were ambushed as they slept in their beds at 1122 King Road with a large fixed-blade knife, according to police and Mabbutt. Each victim had multiple stab wounds."

" 'It had to be a really big knife to inflict those injuries and kill four people," she said.'"

"Goncalves' father told Fox News Digital in an exclusive interview Sunday that Mabbutt described the wounds as "tears" and "big open gouges."

At least one victim had defensive wounds, which suggested she awoke during the attack, Mabbutt noted."