4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[PunishThenForgive]

I'm going to suffer through the movie again, to see if the creepy murderer says something like that. I feel like he might have.

One obvious take away from the movie is that it's not just a thriller, it's a psychological thriller. There is A LOT of head messing.

And, while I think BK said what he said to someone in particular, I can't help but to wonder if he's a self-soother with words, weirdly narrating calm to himself, for himself. Not a split personailty in the old sense but a not fully-integrated self...

BK, in front of their bathroom mirror, wiping blood off his face. It's okay, I'm here to help you. He's weird. Maybe he thinks of his hands as friends.

It'll get very real at trial. When we hear from the investigators who surveyed the scene BK left behind. Was XK ever in the bathroom crying? Did BK set the knife down? Did he take a towel or t-shirt? What exactly did BK carve? What made the THUD? Was Murphy really loose, in a room with an open door? And stayed there unrestrained until late in the day when LE located him there? Did BK interact with Murphy at all? It's OK, I'm here to help you. Throw him a bone? Did Murphy bark?

So much still to learn.

JMO

I hadn’t thought of BK telling Murphy he was going to help him. So many possibilities.

I suppose BK spoke often to himself, sadly. The bathroom scenario you imagine is truly chilling.

I, too, imagine BK washing away the awful blood from his gloved hands and his masked face in that small bathroom in Moscow.

I imagine him scrubbing his hands and face again in his bathroom in Pullman, and again in his bathroom in the Poconos, and yet again at the sink in his jail cell back in Moscow. He has OCD, after all.

And BK likely continues to wash, to scrub at the sink in his new jail cell in Boise—and in his dreams, forever in his dreams. Those spots, those stains, will never leave him, I’m afraid.

IMO

 

[Megnut]

"There is direct and indirect evidence that attempts were made by the suspect(s) to clean up the crime scene after the homicides."

I don't watch as many trials as many of you do. I feel blessed to be able to read here and keep up with things because of what so many others do. And thanks for all you do.

This little snippet is very interesting--what exactly was BK trying to clean up? It's not like he could clean up the blood from slaughtering 4 people?

AT calls it cleaning up. But her angle is anything that takes time.

I think there must be evidence BK paused in the bathroom.

Victim's blood.
Missing towel.

AT also said BK was cleaning the bathroom at his parents' house when LE so rudely bulldozed their way in. He was doing anything BUT cleaning. Flushing evidence, THAT I could believe.

DM heard XK crying. From the bathroom. Could be that XK was just wrong, that XK was crying in the hallway or her bedroom door, but maybe XK was turning into the bathroom when BK caught up to her, maybe he injured her there. I don't know how he'd know about EC though, why would he force XK into her bedroom... well, unless maybe he had other intentions, perhaps he was just riled up enough that he planned to SA her, in whatever manner suited him.

For now, I'm thinking that what AT calls 'cleaning up' is BK stealing a towel to wrap around his sharp, bloody knife. I wonder where he thought his sheath was.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

"There is direct and indirect evidence that attempts were made by the suspect(s) to clean up the crime scene after the homicides."

I don't watch as many trials as many of you do. I feel blessed to be able to read here and keep up with things because of what so many others do. And thanks for all you do.

This little snippet is very interesting--what exactly was BK trying to clean up? It's not like he could clean up the blood from slaughtering 4 people?

This is a morbid thought, but I have considered that the "cleanup" may have been BK grabbing a towel and smearing it across the floor with his shoe/bootie, because you know how slippery blood can be. We have heard, from Dateline, that Xana was found in a massive pool of blood, and that BK struck an artery when he attacked Ethan, so there may have already been enough blood on the floor that BK wanted to take care not to slip and fall in his haste to leave. JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

AT calls it cleaning up. But her angle is anything that takes time.

I think there must be evidence BK paused in the bathroom.

Victim's blood.
Missing towel.

AT also said BK was cleaning the bathroom at his parents' house when LE so rudely bulldozed their way in. He was doing anything BUT cleaning. Flushing evidence, THAT I could believe.

DM heard XK crying. From the bathroom. Could be that XK was just wrong, that XK was crying in the hallway or her bedroom door, but maybe XK was turning into the bathroom when BK caught up to her, maybe he injured her there. I don't know how he'd know about EC though, why would he force XK into her bedroom... well, unless maybe he had other intentions, perhaps he was just riled up enough that he planned to SA her, in whatever manner suited him.

For now, I'm thinking that what AT calls 'cleaning up' is BK stealing a towel to wrap around his sharp, bloody knife. I wonder where he thought his sheath was.

JMO

For the record, the PCA said DM heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle’s room:



Source: Affidavit Exhibit A Statement of Brett Payne (page 4)

I assume Dylan meant Xana’s bedroom since Dylan shared the same bathroom.

I don’t know how she could tell, though, since the rooms are right next to each other.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I hadn’t thought of BK telling Murphy he was going to help him. So many possibilities.

I suppose BK spoke often to himself, sadly. The bathroom scenario you imagine is truly chilling.

I, too, imagine BK washing away the awful blood from his gloved hands and his masked face in that small bathroom in Moscow.

I imagine him scrubbing his hands and face again in his bathroom in Pullman, and again in his bathroom in the Poconos, and yet again at the sink in his jail cell back in Moscow. He has OCD, after all.

And BK likely continues to wash, to scrub at the sink in his new jail cell in Boise—and in his dreams, forever in his dreams. Those spots, those stains, will never leave him, I’m afraid.

IMO

Out, damn spot.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

This is a morbid thought, but I have considered that the "cleanup" may have been BK grabbing a towel and smearing it across the floor with his shoe/bootie, because you know how slippery blood can be. We have heard, from Dateline, that Xana was found in a massive pool of blood, and that BK struck an artery when he attacked Ethan, so there may have already been enough blood on the floor that BK wanted to take care not to slip and fall in his haste to leave. JMO

Yes, and this would explain why there may have been little blood outside Xana’s room.

I doubt BK had time to do any “cleaning” after killing Maddie and Kaylee since he had to leave them so suddenly, but most of their blood may have been absorbed by the mattress of Maddie’s bed.

Whatever the case, I can’t imagine there was a tremendous amount of blood on the path between Dylan’s bedroom and the stairs to Bethany’s first floor bedroom. Or maybe there was blood, but Dylan’s brain just couldn’t interpret it correctly.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Out, damn spot.

Poetic justice. Just sayin’.

 

[Ghostwheel]

"There is direct and indirect evidence that attempts were made by the suspect(s) to clean up the crime scene after the homicides."

Rsbm

Jumping off this quote.This is just so misleading, though. It implies that there was an attempt to clean up the ENTIRE crime scene, which I seriously doubt. One could call blood washed down a sink and a rubdown of the sink with a missing towel "direct and indirect evidence that attempts were made by the suspect(s) to clean up the crime scene after the homicides." when it was no such thing. It was maybe clean up of cleaning himself up, not the whole scene. Or maybe not cleanup at all but just what happened when trying to wrap a bloody knife.

Anything in the defense documents are suspect to their interpretation (same for prosecution). I'd like to know what is fact, not interpretation. The actual physical evidence, not what someone thinks it means.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

This is just so misleading, though. It implies that there was an attempt to clean up the ENTIRE crime scene, which I seriously doubt. One could call blood washed down a sink and a rubdown of the sink with a missing towel "direct and indirect evidence that attempts were made by the suspect(s) to clean up the crime scene after the homicides." when it was no such thing. It was maybe clean up of cleaning himself up, not the whole scene. Or maybe not cleanup at all but just what happened when trying to wrap a bloody knife.

Anything in the defense document's is suspect to their interpretation (same for prosecution). I'd like to know what is fact, not interpretation. The actual physical evidence, not what someone thinks it means.

Imagine the defense being misleading!

Don’t worry, the State has a rebuttal witness, Darren Gilbertson:

Source: Order on Defendants Motion in Limine RE Vague+and Undisclosed Expert Testimony (see Section III, subsection F, pages 7 to 9)

 

[wendy44]

SG said this in the interview on the DT show that was linked to in an earlier thread (paraphrased a bit):

24:41 ...I'm trying to help people understand how we know for a fact that JD (KG's boyfriend) isn't involved. there is the whole CAST, went into that neighborhood and people are going to understand that the CAST detail is, though we didn't get some of the timing records, there's still a lot of information that they did get and JD is one of the people where they did get the timing records. Which let you go within feet so they knew when JD's phone was moving. When he was in his bed sleeping and moving around, whether that was under his pillow or was on his blankets or whatever. So they have absolute certainty where JD was that night.

So if XK went upstairs and had her phone with her when she did, it's possible that they know that with the CAST detail.
JMO

 

[Megnut]

SG said this in the interview on the DT show that was linked to in an earlier thread (paraphrased a bit):

24:41 ...I'm trying to help people understand how we know for a fact that JD (KG's boyfriend) isn't involved. there is the whole CAST, went into that neighborhood and people are going to understand that the CAST detail is, though we didn't get some of the timing records, there's still a lot of information that they did get and JD is one of the people where they did get the timing records. Which let you go within feet so they knew when JD's phone was moving. When he was in his bed sleeping and moving around, whether that was under his pillow or was on his blankets or whatever. So they have absolute certainty where JD was that night.

So if XK went upstairs and had her phone with her when she did, it's possible that they know that with the CAST detail.
JMO

Learned from the Murdaugh trial, digital forensics can show a phone's orientation, in that case showing the phone was spinning.

Learned from the Dulos trial, digital forensics can show what actions required an user and which were internal.

Learned from the Delphi trial, digital forensics can show movements, steps and elevation changes, consistent with moving up or downhill, or in this case, up/down a staircase. If she received her door dash food at the slider, any elevation change recorded by her phone would suggest she used a staircase for some other reason, certainly timestamped.

We know BK climbed those steps and came back down. IF DM attributed it to KG and Murphy, I'll concede it was likely BK and XK whom she heard, but if she heard just one person on the stairs, then it had to be BK she heard IMO. While he might have gone up the stairs quietly, no way he came down them quietly, especially if he was chasing someone.

For now, for me, it was BK DM heard. Final answer. Until I change my mind.

JMO

 

[FansBlowing]

It could be a different scenario than Dateline surmised. Kohberger started to go up the stairs, but Xana opened her door and came out of her room. BK then chased and killed Xana first. Then he killed Ethan who was moving or turning in bed. Kaylee got up from her room in response to the noise/her dog barking and saw BK. Kaylee then ran into Maddie's room with BK right behind her. A struggle ensued, BK's knife sheath was lost, and Kaylee was killed. Maddie was killed last, possibly still sleeping if she had a lot to drink. BK came back downstairs to Ethan and Xana's room and sat on the chair and did some sort of clean up before exiting the house.

 

[Cool Cats]

The families of University of Idaho students killed in an off-campus apartment in 2022 are receiving help from the public to attend suspect Bryan Kohberger's trial.

MSN

Three pages (fundraiser site) have been launched to help cover the financial costs of attending the trial, which is scheduled to take place in Boise in August. The fundraisers state that the families will use the money to cover various expenses, including travel, lost wages, food, and lodging.

Launched to help Xana's mother, Cara Kernodle.
Launched to find an Airbnb or a house for rent that will house all 10 Goncalves family members for 3 months.
And for Madison's father, Ben Mogen.

 

[MassGuy]

Continuance hearing scheduled for June 18. It looks like that portion will be open, with the alternate suspect sealed.

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

 

[katydid23]

I can't think of a reason BK would go back up the stairs unless he heard something to make him think KG and or MM were not dead. At this point he may not have known if anyone else in the house was awake.
Moo.

I don't think he went back upstairs---I think he went up once, killed them both, came downstairs and saw Xana, etc

 

[DizzyB]

It could be a different scenario than Dateline surmised. Kohberger started to go up the stairs, but Xana opened her door and came out of her room. BK then chased and killed Xana first. Then he killed Ethan who was moving or turning in bed. Kaylee got up from her room in response to the noise/her dog barking and saw BK. Kaylee then ran into Maddie's room with BK right behind her. A struggle ensued, BK's knife sheath was lost, and Kaylee was killed. Maddie was killed last, possibly still sleeping if she had a lot to drink. BK came back downstairs to Ethan and Xana's room and sat on the chair and did some sort of clean up before exiting the house.

Dateline had info that was not known to the public. Based on Hippler’s reaction, some of the details were true and leaked. The order in which things occurred are fixed and known, due to blood evidence. CAST data may explain who was where and when, such as up and down stairs. I think they may have a lot more than what we have heard so far.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Out, damn spot.

Indeed. Except that BK's conscience doesn't appear to be troubled.

 

[Boxer]

SG said this in the interview on the DT show that was linked to in an earlier thread (paraphrased a bit):

24:41 ...I'm trying to help people understand how we know for a fact that JD (KG's boyfriend) isn't involved. there is the whole CAST, went into that neighborhood and people are going to understand that the CAST detail is, though we didn't get some of the timing records, there's still a lot of information that they did get and JD is one of the people where they did get the timing records. Which let you go within feet so they knew when JD's phone was moving. When he was in his bed sleeping and moving around, whether that was under his pillow or was on his blankets or whatever. So they have absolute certainty where JD was that night.

So if XK went upstairs and had her phone with her when she did, it's possible that they know that with the CAST detail.
JMO

That sounds right.

 

[taml]

0

can you tell me how to find his explanation thanks!

He had so much knowledge about this case when I first started following him, but I haven’t seen him post in a long time

 

[Sachi]

Do we think Ethan was awake? Really avoid imagining how horrific this all was. I can't erase the word "carve" now that it's there about Ethan's injuries. And, I don't even understand the phrase "attempted to clean up" because that seems impossible in this bloodbath. I guess, attempted to clean up crime scene could just be him grabbing towel to obfuscate bloody shoe print? I hope he got blood in his eyes. Js moo

I remember SG did say in one of his interviews that BK may have swiped a garment to wrap the knife on the way out , perhaps that was a towel from bathroom ,as Megnut said. Yet, that would not explain the "attempting to clean up the crime scene". He's all about him so was obscuring some physical evidence he might have left and I can only think that would be a footprint(s) in blood.