4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[minazoe]

That's what I imagine myself. Some sort of sadistic compulsion he had. Perhaps a sign of his rage against Ethan for having what he couldn't have or something.

I think it was sexual and a way of being disrespectful post mortem. mOO

 

[AcerPacer]

Delphi.

See you back here in a hundred years.

But actually, don't goooooooo. Don't leave us. You just got here.

Give us your fresh insight!!! If everyone had been asleep, what would BK have done?

JMO

That's a great Q.. everyone asleep
I am in camp "MM primary target" , largely down to an early comment from SG..he didn't need to have gone upstairs, IMO, what he went to the house for was upstairs on the top floor. KG wasn't meant to be there that night as she'd moved out and was only there on a flying visit.
I wonder if, (had KG been in her old bedroom with Murphy and MM been alone in her own bedroom, he might have had a sexual motive.
He didn't seem to have had much success with "romance" in his past so had he morbidly fantasied about MM while watching her through her window? What he'd like to do with/to her if he could just get her alone?
Finding her asleep/passed out drunk would he have used an implement to SA before killing her? The fact that he's suited up means he definitely intended to harm her and leave no trace.
I wonder if he would have spent much more time in that room with her alone doing unimaginably awful things to her if he wasn't disturbed
Done what he set out to do, killed her (maybe not, maybe just horrifically abused her and left for dead), crept back out down the stairs and through the sliding door and away without leaving a trace.

IMO JMO MOO of course

 

[SteveP]

I think this is closer to what happened. Making sure Ethan couldn't run... or stand, for that matter. I think BK likely would have panicked a little realizing there was a tall, strong guy lying in the bed of the room he'd just entered and would have felt he needed to immobilize Ethan as quickly as he possibly could.

That is what I think, too, but if, as Dateline suggested, he attacked Ethan with one strike to an artery, which apparently cause a large amount of blood spatter, he probably was near death pretty quickly, and wasn't likely going to be able to stand up. So I think the carving, whatever it was, was just absolutely for his own evil pleasure. JMO

 

[Gemmie]

I think this is closer to what happened. Making sure Ethan couldn't run... or stand, for that matter. I think BK likely would have panicked a little realizing there was a tall, strong guy lying in the bed of the room he'd just entered and would have felt he needed to immobilize Ethan as quickly as he possibly could.

I'm in the camp that thinks it was so Ethan couldn't stand and fight his attacker. What a chicken BI is and a coward to boot.

 

[MassGuy]

I think this is closer to what happened. Making sure Ethan couldn't run... or stand, for that matter. I think BK likely would have panicked a little realizing there was a tall, strong guy lying in the bed of the room he'd just entered and would have felt he needed to immobilize Ethan as quickly as he possibly could.

The neck wound would have made sure Ethan wasn't going anywhere, and if he had any concerns about Ethan being a threat, he'd just keep stabbing the upper body.

It's not like Ethan is going to hold still while you cut his hamstrings or something, so I see this as something necessary to him, but not necessary to commit the crime.

A signature.

 

[Boxer]

That's a great Q.. everyone asleep
I am in camp "MM primary target" , largely down to an early comment from SG..he didn't need to have gone upstairs, IMO, what he went to the house for was upstairs on the top floor. KG wasn't meant to be there that night as she'd moved out and was only there on a flying visit.
I wonder if, (had KG been in her old bedroom with Murphy and MM been alone in her own bedroom, he might have had a sexual motive.
He didn't seem to have had much success with "romance" in his past so had he morbidly fantasied about MM while watching her through her window? What he'd like to do with/to her if he could just get her alone?
Finding her asleep/passed out drunk would he have used an implement to SA before killing her? The fact that he's suited up means he definitely intended to harm her and leave no trace.
I wonder if he would have spent much more time in that room with her alone doing unimaginably awful things to her if he wasn't disturbed
Done what he set out to do, killed her (maybe not, maybe just horrifically abused her and left for dead), crept back out down the stairs and through the sliding door and away without leaving a trace.

IMO JMO MOO of course

Agree. He thought he was Ninja, he would sneak in rape or kill and out. Instead the target woman had a friend with her and another woman saw him so he chased her as ran to her room where her boyfriend was...
I think DM was lucky as he calculated more doors more people, more time ticking by and the dog outside barking bloody murder, so he cut his losses and just left, peeling out as he must have been reasonably certain someone had called 911 by then.

 

[browneyes]

Agree. He thought he was Ninja, he would sneak in rape or kill and out. Instead the target woman had a friend with her and another woman saw him so he chased her as ran to her room where her boyfriend was...
I think DM was lucky as he calculated more doors more people, more time ticking by and the dog outside barking bloody murder, so he cut his losses and just left, peeling out as he must have been reasonably certain someone had called 911 by then.

I worry so much for DM. She must see him in her nightmares.

 

[Boxer]

I worry so much for DM. She must see him in her nightmares.

Agree.

 

[ivyvanmad]

That's what I imagine myself. Some sort of sadistic compulsion he had. Perhaps a sign of his rage against Ethan for having what he couldn't have or something.

Unless this is against the rules, I’d like to bring up the unsolved murder of Katie Janness from July 2021. She was attacked around 1am with her dog in Piedmont Park in Atlanta, and the killer carved into her body, possibly the letters F-A-T. The poor dog Bowie was also stabbed to death. This is what comes to mind for me as well when I hear ‘carving”. Like you said, a sadistic impulsion and a way to get the last word in. IMO he seems like the type who has to get the last word…

 

[MassGuy]

As far as how this would have gone if everything went according to plan, I do not believe that any sort of sexual assault was in the cards.

He went to painstaking lengths to leave no DNA behind (sheath aside), and to ensure he didn't transfer any biological evidence to his car. He's simply not going to take the risk of blowing everything up by committing any sort of sex act.

It was the violence that satiated him, and perhaps the fear of his victims. Power and control (cliche, but I think this fits perfectly).

 

[Slamalam]

As far as how this would have gone if everything went according to plan, I do not believe that any sort of sexual assault was in the cards.

He went to painstaking lengths to leave no DNA behind (sheath aside), and to ensure he didn't transfer any biological evidence to his car. He's simply not going to take the risk of blowing everything up by committing any sort of sex act.

It was the violence that satiated him, and perhaps the fear of his victims. Power and control (cliche, but I think this fits perfectly).

spot on, sums up my thoughts as well. He was calculating and very meticulous.

 

[gremlin444]

As far as how this would have gone if everything went according to plan, I do not believe that any sort of sexual assault was in the cards.

He went to painstaking lengths to leave no DNA behind (sheath aside), and to ensure he didn't transfer any biological evidence to his car. He's simply not going to take the risk of blowing everything up by committing any sort of sex act.

It was the violence that satiated him, and perhaps the fear of his victims. Power and control (cliche, but I think this fits perfectly).

How many people do you think he intended to kill if everything had gone according to his plan?

So, if it was MM, then he had to deal with an unexpected KG...and then XK and EC were collateral damage as well?

Did he intend to kill everyone (who he thought) was sound asleep in the house, methodically working from top floor to bottom but having KG be there, DM awaken and yell to quit making noise, and XK not be in her bed asleep but instead awake and encountering him messed up his plans and he exited as soon as he could after thinking he had regained control of the situation?

I wonder sometimes...did he think just MM would be on the 3rd floor and he could kill her and no one else? Pretty risky considering DM is right below there. Surely if he was regularly surveilling the house after dark he would have caught that there regularly were lights on in DM's room indicating that someone lived there instead of in the first floor bedroom that was being used as storage (which would have rarely had lights on). If no one lived in DM's 2nd floor room, that would have made an attack on just MM a lot more feasible, what with XK on the opposite side of the house and BF all the way down on the 1st.

 

[Boxer]

As far as how this would have gone if everything went according to plan, I do not believe that any sort of sexual assault was in the cards.

He went to painstaking lengths to leave no DNA behind (sheath aside), and to ensure he didn't transfer any biological evidence to his car. He's simply not going to take the risk of blowing everything up by committing any sort of sex act.

It was the violence that satiated him, and perhaps the fear of his victims. Power and control (cliche, but I think this fits perfectly).

Had things gone to plan MOO it would have been a single murder, no sheath. Yes, suspicions of Elantras but not the massive investigation of that ensued.
MOO his criminal preparations minus the sheath, were adequate for a single murder as the police investigated close relationships and circles of contact out. BK had no contact and he knew it.
I believe the sheath was lost from a coveralls deep pocket while having to subdue KG.

 

[snooptroop88]

That is what I think, too, but if, as Dateline suggested, he attacked Ethan with one strike to an artery, which apparently cause a large amount of blood spatter, he probably was near death pretty quickly, and wasn't likely going to be able to stand up. So I think the carving, whatever it was, was just absolutely for his own evil pleasure. JMO

Agreed on this.

I find the carving to be... beyond, seriously. Just beyond belief. I think it's like this idea of the most disgusting, foul, sick version of "self-expression" one could imagine. He went home listening to the song "Criminal: He's doing his selfies, he's into his pacifist rap. He needs special pans to cook, he's got his agenda. He's posting his visual snow for all to see. There's nothing wrong with any of these things in and of themselves-- until he murders people, then you wonder exactly what this whole combination of factors and attractions was about. I mean it, I think this "carving" (which has kind of left me speechless) is BK's uniquely grotesque murderer's twist on the normal, healthy version of "express yourself." It's like the thumbs-up selfie. I don't know if he views himself as some kind of Super Anti-Hero or what, l<modsnip - referenced posts removed> But it's like antisocial personality all wrapped up with pretty bows and nice wrapping paper. And then you open it up, and it's nothing but the most raw, sick, vicious explosion of violent hatred you've ever seen in your life, all directed at the most vulnerable targets he could find.

I think BK does have some things in common with his hero Bundy. And I've had a feeling right from the beginning that the DP is ultimately going to be added to that list.

 

[MassGuy]

How many people do you think he intended to kill if everything had gone according to his plan?

So, if it was MM, then he had to deal with an unexpected KG...and then XK and EC were collateral damage as well?

Did he intend to kill everyone (who he thought) was sound asleep in the house, methodically working from top floor to bottom but having KG be there, DM awaken and yell to quit making noise, and XK not be in her bed asleep but instead awake and encountering him messed up his plans and he exited as soon as he could after thinking he had regained control of the situation?

I wonder sometimes...did he think just MM would be on the 3rd floor and he could kill her and no one else? Pretty risky considering DM is right below there. Surely if he was regularly surveilling the house after dark he would have caught that there regularly were lights on in DM's room indicating that someone lived there instead of in the first floor bedroom that was being used as storage (which would have rarely had lights on). If no one lived in DM's 2nd floor room, that would have made an attack on just MM a lot more feasible, what with XK on the opposite side of the house and BF all the way down on the 1st.

Oh I'm still leaning towards this being a single victim, but I do think he enjoyed the other killings, if not at the time, then after it was done. He would have relived this over and over during those ensuing weeks, and certainly still does.

KG's presence makes her collateral damage, and him bumping into Xana creates two more victims.

There are other possibilities though. I just can't fathom him thinking he could sneak from room to room, killing people without anyone else knowing. But I do think it's possible he intended to kill MM and KG in their respective rooms. That's something he could realistically expect to pull off, although it's still risky.

For all his surveilling, it would still be impossible to know exactly who slept where, and if they were prone to having overnight guests. That's why I really lean towards a single planned killing (just way too many variables).

 

[MassGuy]

Agreed on this.

I find the carving to be... beyond, seriously. Just beyond belief. I think it's like this idea of the most disgusting, foul, sick version of "self-expression" one could imagine. He went home listening to the song "Criminal: He's doing his selfies, he's into his pacifist rap. He needs special pans to cook, he's got his agenda. He's posting his visual snow for all to see. There's nothing wrong with any of these things in and of themselves-- until he murders people, then you wonder exactly what this whole combination of factors and attractions was about. I mean it, I think this "carving" (which has kind of left me speechless) is BK's uniquely grotesque murderer's twist on the normal, healthy version of "express yourself." It's like the thumbs-up selfie. I don't know if he views himself as some kind of Super Anti-Hero or what, <modsnip> But it's like antisocial personality all wrapped up with pretty bows and nice wrapping paper. And then you open it up, and it's nothing but the most raw, sick, vicious explosion of violent hatred you've ever seen in your life, all directed at the most vulnerable targets he could find.

I think BK does have some things in common with his hero Bundy. And I've had a feeling right from the beginning that the DP is ultimately going to be added to that list.

The Bundy thing is really interesting, because when he committed the Chi Omega murders he was in a decompensation phase. He was melting down, and was no longer the meticulous, organized killer he was prior to that. That's not someone anyone would want to model themselves after, as it was a frenzied, high risk attack by an emotionally unraveling psychopath; he was so unprepared that he used a piece of wood that he came across, as a murder weapon.

Like Bundy, Kohberger entered and exited through an unsecured door (faulty lock for Bundy) in the rear of the house, and both had multiple victims.

What's interesting, is that serial killers tend to research other serial killers -at least the organized ones do. So I guess it's possible that Kohberger modeled his attack after Bundy's, but with a much higher level of planning.

What I lean towards though, is this accidentally becoming Bundy like, and then Kohberger embracing it after the fact.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I still fall toward the side that BK’s plan was to kill everyone in the house.
I think he knew MM lived there, and that she is the one that led him to the house.
He started with MM but intended to get everyone.
Everything went sideways almost immediately when MM wasn’t alone in her room.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Looking forward to June 18th hearing on Motion to Continue and Alternate Suspect(s).

Any guesses as to who AT is going to present as Alt Sus.? I've racked my brain and I just don't see who she could present as someone that has any likelihood or credibility.

I did have a good laugh that AT submitted her Motion on Jury Instructions filed under seal, but then turned around and asked for the State's discovery of same. Hammerhead Hippler ruled that the State's would be sealed as well. Hippler isn't having it, lol.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

I still fall toward the side that BK’s plan was to kill everyone in the house.
I think he knew MM lived there, and that she is the one that led him to the house.
He started with MM but intended to get everyone.
Everything went sideways almost immediately when MM wasn’t alone in her room.

In my mind, if he went upstairs first, that would indicate he didn't plan on killing everyone. Footsteps and noises above are louder than those from below.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I still go with the common theory that he intended to kill one girl in bed but was surprised by the second one being there and made so much noise it brought attention from downstairs and those two were collateral damage so to speak.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I still fall toward the side that BK’s plan was to kill everyone in the house.
I think he knew MM lived there, and that she is the one that led him to the house.
He started with MM but intended to get everyone.
Everything went sideways almost immediately when MM wasn’t alone in her room.

I'm of that thinking with you Starry. I can't explain why exactly, just gut instinct. I am also still on the fence about who was killed first, those on the 2nd floor or 3rd floor?

If BK's plans were to just kill MM or KG he could have run down the stairs and out the slider afterwards. He was in disguise and not identifiable, he didn't need to chase Xana down and murder her and Ethan. The fact that he mutilated Ethan is very telling to me as well.

One or two hard knife punches to the jugular or aorta would have killed Ethan instantly, so I believe his 'carving' (forgive me for typing that ) appears to be post-mortem to me. Why take the time to do that? Was it punishment for Ethan being in 'his chosen house' with all the beautiful girls?

Like I've said before, I waffle on the fence daily as more info comes out. My bum's got splinters.

JMO