4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #96

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

The defense is discussing the method of execution, which could be unknown if and when a death penalty sentence is rendered. She is arguing that this is unjust to sentence a person to death and have them wait on death row, possibly for years, and not know the method of their pending execution.

That's how I am understanding what I am reading.

Thank you for replying. I understand this debate but what's it got to do with BK?

Since when has a trial for anything involved a debate about the ethics and morality of the prison system or whether DP should exist?

Many people believe that prison doesn't serve the purpose it was originally intended for but we don't start other trials discussing whether prisons are re-habilitating people and reducing reoffending.

 

[jepop]

Thank you for replying. I understand this debate but what's it got to do with BK?

Since when has a trial for anything involved a debate about the ethics and morality of the prison system or whether DP should exist?

Many people believe that prison doesn't serve the purpose it was originally intended for but we don't start other trials discussing whether prisons are re-habilitating people and reducing reoffending.

If bk convicted there will be sentencing phase trial. State is seeking Dp. Standard procedure for defense to seek to take dp off the table prior to trial. They are not going to argue for strike dp motions between guilt phase and sentencing phase if bk found guilty. So it is being argued now. Jmo

 

[Sundog]

Thank you for replying. I understand this debate but what's it got to do with BK?

Since when has a trial for anything involved a debate about the ethics and morality of the prison system or whether DP should exist?

Many people believe that prison doesn't serve the purpose it was originally intended for but we don't start other trials discussing whether prisons are re-habilitating people and reducing reoffending.

I don't think they are discussing the ethics and morality of the death penalty at this point, I think they are discussing the impact of the unknown method of execution when a prisoner receives a death penalty sentence and whether or not this is just or not, especcially given that a DP prisoner will likely spend years on death row not knowing for years how s/he will be executed. I assume the defense's experts will present their research and opinions on that issue.

I think the ethical issues will come up at a later stage if BK is found guilty and if he is given the death penalty at his sentencing. At that point, I assume the defense will appeal to the "cruel and unusual punishment" clause of the Constitution if the state is using certain methods of execcution, like the firing squad for example. But that is not being discussed today.

 

[Nila Aella]

I think the defense is arguing that not knowing the method of execution and having a person waiting on death row and not knowing what the method of execution will be (whether lethal injection, firing squad, gas chamber, hanging, or other).

The judge asked DT if she was arguing that a wait on death row with this unknown would be anxiety-producing and if that was what she was arguing. He then said that the courts have ruled against this argument. She wasn't prepared to be pinned down with an answer to that exact question at this time, IMO. I think she'll leave that up to her experts' testimonies, at least for now.


JMO.IANAL

IMO she answered.

I understood that the courts have ruled against this being an issue only after a defendant was sentenced to death. The D argued that theirs was a different argument, being prior to trial, that the current state of Idaho has difficulty in carrying out a death sentence and making a defendant wait decades to find out the method of execution is a violation of the 8th A. Also that the Creech case is different in that he has waited four months not knowing, as opposed to decades that both the P and D agreed would occur in this case if he is convicted and sentenced to death.

IANAL, JMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If bk convicted there will be sentencing phase trial. State is seeking Dp. Standard procedure for defense to seek to take dp off the table prior to trial. They are not going to argue for strike dp motions between guilt phase and sentencing phase if bk found guilty. So it is being argued now. Jmo

Ah got it OK, thanks.

 

[Megnut]

So far, today has been a lot of lawyer speak.

Arguments against virtually every word of the instructions for the DP.

Judge is sharp. Taking things under advisement, but based on his questions, IMO he's not moved.

I think it can all be condensed to this:

AT doesn't want a DP-supportive jury bc she thinks they'll be more likely to convict. If she can toss the DP, she will have a wider jury pool and a greater chance of jurors not so quick to convict.

I don't see it happening. DP stays IMO.

It would save her a world of hurt/work if she can axe the DP, or impact the instructions for her, reducing them to an element or two she can try to mitigate later.

It's not even as much about soaring BK's life or assuaging his anxiety (post conviction, while waiting in limbo, unaware of the method of his execution), it's about AT's workload, the nature of juries (standard juries v. DP juries), and having to prepare for both the case and DP simultaneously.

Just a taste --- one of the aggravating factors which can be considered is the number of victims. The Defense's attempt at an argument: saying that multiple victims should somehow carry more weight diminishes the value of a single victim. Huh? The jury would already be valuing the first victim while also considering the value of subsequent ones! There IS a cumulative or compounding aspect to this crime!

BK, if convicted, IMO is eligible for the DP on the grounds of the first victim. Full stop. That (allegedly) he went on to commit three more murders and each of those should indeed be enhancements to the charges, in support of the DP.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler

We’re through the morning session of the #BryanKohberger pretrial hearing today over issue of the #deathpenalty.
Court will resume for a short afternoon of arguments after 1 p.m. MT (3 p.m. ET). My early story with
@alex_brizee is posted here. Check for more later.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854608870465061363

 

[arielilane]

Court is back in session

 

[minazoe]

notice BK's chair is lowered almost to the floor. mOO

 

[Megnut]

notice BK's chair is lowered almost to the floor. mOO

But not his scowl.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Court is in recess

 

[arielilane]

@BrianEntin

Bryan Kohberger hearing is starting now in Boise, Idaho.Defense expected to argue to have the death penalty taken off the table.

Judge in Bryan Kohberger case will continue to allow him to appear in civilian clothes -- suit and tie.Says it will not be a security issue.


Bryan Kohberger defense is arguing the death penalty should be taken off the table because "there is no means of execution" right now. Judge is clarifying the protocol is lethal injection and firing squad as a second option.


Kohberger defense says the firing squad death option was brought about because of the shortage of lethal injection drugs.They claim there are problems with the firing squad -- and funding to get it built.She is trying to argue Kohberger will just sit on death row if convicted.


Kohberger defense is arguing the "anxiety and fear" of sitting on death row not knowing how you will be killed is unconstitutional.


Kohberger judge says he will take the defense's argument about the death penalty under advisement and issue a ruling later.If convicted -- defense said it is "dehumanization" for Kohberger to sit on death row not knowing how he would be killed.


Weird how some things stick with you and you keep thinking about them.When I rented my car from Avis in Raleigh for election coverage, there was a big electric fence around the rental lot. Like Jurassic Park.I asked the guy - he said "so many stolen cars we had to do it.”


Kohberger hearing just ended.Judge did not make any major decisions regarding the death penalty — said he will issue written rulings at a later date.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854626493072019683

 

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[ForensicToxicologist]

Kohberger defense is arguing the "anxiety and fear" of sitting on death row not knowing how you will be killed is unconstitutional.


Kohberger judge says he will take the defense's argument about the death penalty under advisement and issue a ruling later.If convicted -- defense said it is "dehumanization" for Kohberger to sit on death row not knowing how he would be killed.

*snipped for focus and not directed at the OP.*

How is that different than anyone else? Every one of us here reading these boards know that someday (God willing, long down the road) we will die. We don’t know when or how, but we know we will. Where do I get to complain about that anxiety being unconstitutional? Who should I contact? I would almost guarantee his victims didn’t know.

 

[cherrybier]

I watched the hearing and am really liking Judge Hipler.

Don't think it'll take him long to refuse the D's motion to strike the DP.

Moo.

 

[jepop]

I watched the hearing and am really liking Judge Hipler.

Don't think it'll take him long to refuse the D's motion to strike the DP.

Moo.

Ditto, Hippler is stellar, mainly appreciating his timeliness and confidence. Not being a local judge is helping in this case, jmo.

Regarding the Motions to strike DP; Defense proffered multiple motions based on multiple grounds, as far as I can comprehend the court filings. Jmo. Not quite sure how it works but assume Hippler will make findings on each one individually. But agree, he will find against all based on precedent and interpretation of US constitutional law. jmo.

The defense nonetheless needed to make these motions as do most other defense attorneys whose clients are facing the DP at the discretion of the state. Moo

Link to Idaho Courts Cases of Interest Page; for defense motions to Strike scroll down to Kohberger, filings in chronological order.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[cherrybier]

Ditto, Hippler is stellar, mainly appreciating his timeliness and confidence. Not being a local judge is helping in this case, jmo.

Regarding the Motions to strike DP; Defense proffered multiple motions based on multiple grounds, as far as I can comprehend the court filings. Jmo. Not quite sure how it works but assume Hippler will make findings on each one individually. But agree, he will find against all based on precedent and interpretation of US constitutional law. jmo.

The defense nonetheless needed to make these motions as do most other defense attorneys whose clients are facing the DP at the discretion of the state. Moo

Link to Idaho Courts Cases of Interest Page; for defense motions to Strike scroll down to Kohberger, filings in chronological order.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Yes, multiple motions concerning a strike were discussed, you're correct. I've just lumped them all together!

I didn't catch when the next hearing is though, I may have missed that.

Agree I'm glad this is out of Moscow, for a few reasons but I just didn't get the impression it would be handled well there.

Moo.

 

[arielilane]

I watched the hearing and am really liking Judge Hipler.

Don't think it'll take him long to refuse the D's motion to strike the DP.

Moo.

Yes, he is no nonsense type of judge and knows the laws. Exactly what this case needs. jmo

 

[Nila Aella]

Case Summary Page additions

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-11072024.pdf

 

[Swansee]

IMO I don't think any of these arguments against the DP are going to fly.
I get that the Defense have to try anyway, but it seems completely futile.
The only aspect that seemed interesting to me in general, but not specifically for this case, is when they brought up the question of BARD for the future dangerousness aggravator as opposed to "probably". IMO it does seem to me there is more vagueness there than the threshold for proving guilt. It might be something to ponder for other cases, but probably not in the particular context of this quadruple homicide.
I also agree with @schooling , I had the exact same thoughts when listening to Massoth about the multiple victims aggravator. She seemed to be choosing her words extra carefully when answering the judge on that and I wondered if she was trying to not disclose something. But IANAL , so perhaps it's all just standard defense tactics for a multiple victim case?