4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

[LinasK]

I'm not sure who "he" is in your post but so far as I know, BK hasn't made a public statement about what he did or didn't do re: stalking or re: anything else. BT spoke publicly in court, however.

When BT spoke in court, he was speaking about (& against) the defense survey questions. Those concerned with stalking used the word "one" not the word "none." So BT didn't come up with the word one out of thin air. And as I've said before, I'm also not sure why, as an officer of the court, BT would play word games to deliberately mislead the judge. Was the judge supposed to know he was being duplicitous and be able to figure out what he was really saying?

The relevant survey questions:

8. Have you read, seen or heard that Bryan Kohberger stalked one of the victims?
9. Have you read, seen or heard that Byran Kohberger had followed one of the victims on social media?

Bryan Kohberger did not stalk Idaho victim before murder, court hears

MOO

Yes, I was referring to Kohlberger, the suspect in this case. Criminals generally aren't honest. Since when is Kohlberger an officer of the court?

 

[NCWatcher]

Yes, I was referring to Kohlberger, the suspect in this case. Criminals generally aren't honest. Since when is Kohlberger an officer of the court?

As my post says, I believe the only person who has made a public statement about whether stalking happened is the DA, BT. So far as I know, BK has made no public statements nor would a defendant represented by counsel be expected to make any public statements. So it's hardly unusual BK has not said anything. And not speaking under the circumstances isn't "lying" IMO. Since BK hasn't said anything, he didn't choose to use "one" instead of "none" in a statement.

BT, not BK, is an officer of the court. BT said in court it was false that BK stalked one of the victims. If BT made a deliberately false statement in court by playing "word games" as you called it, that's a problem. Attorneys may not lie in court nor make false statements to the judge.
MOO

 

[LinasK]

As my post says, I believe the only person who has made a public statement about whether stalking happened is the DA, BT. So far as I know, BK has made no public statements nor would a defendant represented by counsel be expected to make any public statements. So it's hardly unusual BK has not said anything. And not speaking under the circumstances isn't "lying" IMO. Since BK hasn't said anything, he didn't choose to use "one" instead of "none" in a statement.

BT, not BK, is an officer of the court. BT said in court it was false that BK stalked one of the victims. If BT made a deliberately false statement in court by playing "word games" as you called it, that's a problem. Attorneys may not lie in court nor make false statements to the judge.
MOO

I don't know the DA's name in this case, so when you solely use initials it gets confusing. I thought you meant BK- the suspect. I meant that Kohlberger was playing word games when he alluded to not stalking one suspect, not the DA.

 

[NCWatcher]

I don't know the DA's name in this case, so when you solely use initials it gets confusing. I thought you meant BK- the suspect. I meant that Kohlberger was playing word games when he alluded to not stalking one suspect, not the DA.

I think I see what you were saying now. I wasn't aware BK had made any allusion to stalking though.

The prosecuting attorney (essentially the DA) for Latah County is Bill Thompson. Latah County - Idaho Prosecuting Attorneys Association - IPAA
MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

As my post says, I believe the only person who has made a public statement about whether stalking happened is the DA, BT. So far as I know, BK has made no public statements nor would a defendant represented by counsel be expected to make any public statements. So it's hardly unusual BK has not said anything. And not speaking under the circumstances isn't "lying" IMO. Since BK hasn't said anything, he didn't choose to use "one" instead of "none" in a statement.

BT, not BK, is an officer of the court. BT said in court it was false that BK stalked one of the victims. If BT made a deliberately false statement in court by playing "word games" as you called it, that's a problem. Attorneys may not lie in court nor make false statements to the judge.
MOO

Wow, BK isn't charged with stalking, just burglary and 4 murders.

I wish he was charged with stalking instead of being charged to having killed 4 innocent defenseless college students just simply trying to go to bed at night.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Kohberger not likely to avoid death penalty if convicted of Idaho student murders

There is little chance that Bryan Kohberger will avoid the death penalty if convicted of killing four Idaho college students in their off-campus apartment.

lawandcrime.com

There is little chance that Bryan Kohberger will avoid the death penalty if convicted of killing four Idaho college students in their off-campus apartment. Perpetrators of multiple heinous murders rarely escape that fate in states with capital punishment.

Kohberger’s legal team, in an effort to save his life if convicted, have filed a host of pretrial motions challenging the imposition of the death penalty and manner in which it is carried out.

Recently, an Idaho trial court sitting in Ada County denied all of Kohberger motions as they related to the death penalty.

Kohberger’s defense team had sought to remove the death penalty as a possible punishment. Kohberger’s attorneys argued that forcing inmates to wait for years on death row and the methods available for prisoners to be executed in Idaho both constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Attorneys also argued Idaho’s death penalty laws violate an international treaty banning the torture of prisoners.

 

[snooptroop88]

This is purely MOO, but I think the "no stalking" became an issue because the powers that be in the case (without directly saying it) are making sure to stamp out the idea asap that there was some pre-existing association between BK and any of the victims. There were so many rumors swirling around in connection with this case early on. That may be why they're making sure early on to note yeah, no stalking (as in per se legal "stalking," which would imply some known and realistic connection between a victim and BK).

 

[Cool Cats]

What's Life Really Like for Idaho's 8 Death-Row Inmates?

Is it as bad as we imagine?

mix106radio.com

What is an Idaho Death Row Inmate's So-Called Life?​

According to the Death Penalty Information Center, living conditions for those serving life sentences under the penalty of death is worse than we imagined.

While on death row, those serving capital sentences are generally isolated from other prisoners, excluded from prison educational and employment programs, and sharply restricted in terms of visitation and exercise, spending as many as 23 hours a day alone in their cells.

In light of the severe nature of the inmates' punishment, DPIC raises an interesting question: are death-row inmates subjected to two distinct punishments?

The organization reasons the uncertainty of the death sentence itself coupled with the "years of living in conditions tantamount to solitary confinement" that's typically limited to short periods of time for general-population prisoners, account for two separate punishments.

On the bright side, if there is such a thing in this instance, death-row inmates are typically allowed the following privileges and materials:

• Medical care
• Periodic visitations
• Exercise time
• Media interviews
• Legal & social phone calls (after a death warrant is signed)
• Daily mail (excluding holidays and weekend)
• Snacks
• and radios as well as 13" TVs (but no cable)

 

[jepop]

With respect, I must disagree.

Logic dictates that if BK did not stalk one of the victims, it cannot be said that he stalked ANY of the victims. The question on the survey asked specifically if BK stalked one of the victims. BT said this was false. BK did not stalk one victim, therefore he stalked no one. This statement cannot be twisted into meaning that BK stalked multiple victims because one victim would always be included in multiple victims, therefore the statement would be partially true. But BT said it is NOT true. Attorneys are precise in how they use language. If it were partially true, BT would have said as much.

I did do a little research and found that there are 2 sources of the stalking rumor. 1. The PCA where it said that his phone utilized the same tower used by 1122 King Rd 3 times BEFORE the murders, which, IMO indicates absolutely nothing since the cellular resources (tower) in question covers almost all of the UofI Moscow, plus many, many stores and restaurants. It is equally possible that his phone may have been handed off by the cell tower he was closest to because the one closest to him was too busy, and 2. When KG's parents went on TV and claimed that he was stalking KG, had touched 1122's internet and was reacting to photos on KG and MM's social media. These rumors of stalking from KG's parents have been spread by the media.

There is, so far, absolutely no proof BK was stalking anyone and it is notable that no stalking charges were filed against BK, which supports that BK was not stalking anyone.

JMO.

The hearing in April 2024 was to discuss the D's telephone survey. This is the specific context. BT articulated a number of concerns. The relevant question in the survey is:

"Have you read, seen or heard that Bryan Kohberger stalked one of the victims?"

I don't think your extrapolations are logical. Listen to the hearing and recall the context. Not stalked the victims (plural) but one of the victims (singular).

What makes the most logical sense, given the context, is that the question by the D's survey team refered to the rumour Kaylee was being stalked prior to the murders. Msm reported on this at the time. Police investigated and found no evidence Kaylee had been stalked. All prior to BK being arrested. People can take speculation as fact or conflate these things due to ...reasons... but BT's point was the official public record ( court records) contains none of this. And it is not something that would be admissible in trial. Moo

No Evidence To Suggest University Of Idaho Victim Kaylee Goncalves Was Being Stalked Before Quadruple Murder, Moscow Police Reveal

Despite claims the 21-year-old was being stalked before she and her roommates were murdered on November 13, Moscow, Idaho police have claimed otherwise.

radaronline.com

The D survey had false facts ie it introduced something to respondents that was not part of the official public record at the time. The Judge agreed that two of the questions opposed by BT were not part of the court record and should not have made it into the survey.

What BT said in the hearing isn't some big gotcha moment. Some try to make burgers from out of context speculations. BT being forced to admit or establish there was no stalking of any of the victims at any time, is a distortion of what occurred at this hearing imo.

What BT said has zero to do with any prospective evidence the P may or may not introduce at trial to suggest BK was surveiling the house (and the victims) in the lead up to the murders. Moo

For anyone interested in context, link to the relevant hearing re D's survey questions.

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[Balthazar]

The hearing in April 2024 was to discuss the D's telephone survey. This is the specific context. BT articulated a number of concerns. The relevant question in the survey is:

"Have you read, seen or heard that Bryan Kohberger stalked one of the victims?"

I don't think your extrapolations are logical. Listen to the hearing and recall the context. Not stalked the victims (plural) but one of the victims (singular).

What makes the most logical sense, given the context, is that the question by the D's survey team refered to the rumour Kaylee was being stalked prior to the murders. Msm reported on this at the time. Police investigated and found no evidence Kaylee had been stalked. All prior to BK being arrested. People can take speculation as fact or conflate these things due to ...reasons... but BT's point was the official public record ( court records) contains none of this. And it is not something that would be admissible in trial. Moo

No Evidence To Suggest University Of Idaho Victim Kaylee Goncalves Was Being Stalked Before Quadruple Murder, Moscow Police Reveal

Despite claims the 21-year-old was being stalked before she and her roommates were murdered on November 13, Moscow, Idaho police have claimed otherwise.

radaronline.com

The D survey had false facts ie it introduced something to respondents that was not part of the official public record at the time. The Judge agreed that two of the questions opposed by BT were not part of the court record and should not have made it into the survey.

What BT said in the hearing isn't some big gotcha moment. Some try to make burgers from out of context speculations. BT being forced to admit or establish there was no stalking of any of the victims at any time, is a distortion of what occurred at this hearing imo.

What BT said has zero to do with any prospective evidence the P may or may not introduce at trial to suggest BK was surveiling the house (and the victims) in the lead up to the murders. Moo

For anyone interested in context, link to the relevant hearing re D's survey questions.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

If BK didn't stalk one of the victims, it is impossible that he stalked more than one of the victims. I don't think the prosecution has ANY evidence that BK was surveilling the house or the residents of the house.

 

[katydid23]

Not factual.

Also, how would a murder victim know they were being stalked if the ONLY stalking that occurred was minutes BEFORE their murder?

Exactly. They wouldn't know they were being stalked. But that doesn't negate the fact that they were, they just never realised it.

 

[jepop]

If BK didn't stalk one of the victims, it is impossible that he stalked more than one of the victims. I don't think the prosecution has ANY evidence that BK was surveilling the house or the residents of the house.

Your first sentence makes no sense to me given the context I mentioned ie what BT was speaking to at this hearing. He was referring to one victim and one particular rumour and the non official public record inferred via D's survey question. Specific to a particular victim at a particular time IMO.

As far as the specific term 'stalking' goes I gave no interest in semantics when the two contexts (1: BT's ref in this hearing -inadmissible at trial- and 2: potential trial evidence that is not to be revealed until trial) are completely different. I'm seeing conflation and obfuscation in your original hypothesis. But we can simply disagree at this point. Moo

 

[katydid23]

How? His phone puts him in the general area on multiple occasions, but that's not specific enough.

There's no known surveillance footage that proves this.

No evidence from any of the victims that they were stalked, and finding digital evidence on his devices is hit or miss (as we've learned from plenty of cases on here). He had plenty of time to cover his tracks in the days and weeks following the crime.

So it absolutely could have happened, I'd bet the farm on it happening, but you cannot prove that it happened, as knowing something and proving something are two completely different things.

So I ask you, how can they prove it?

I can think of ways he could have 'stalked' them without them ever suspecting or even noticing him.

And him being a criminal justice graduate student, he'd know some of these tactics.

He could have seen one of the blonde single girls around town, or at their workplace, or on their social media. Once he became interested in them, it'd be easy to watch their IG stories. And he didn't have to use his own known email platforms to do so. He could have had a burner phone with an alternate email to use when looking at the girls social media. Or he may have known a friend or acquaintances password, so he could scan social media under someone else's email. If he ever helped a friend or co-worker with their computer issues, he could have gotten that info.

Or, if he used his own, he would not have posted or liked any of their stories or pictures, to avoid being investigated after his intended crimes.

There are ways that the girls would not have known about him. But since they often posted pictures about where they were partying or eating out, he could have visited those same places, without making any obvious contact or engagement with them.

Since he knew that his future plan was his own sick little secret it might have felt satisfying to just watch them, knowing what awaited them.

He could have watched them leaving the local bar, drunk walking to the food truck/ could have watched them on various live streams, like the Grub Truck, and the local dive bar they frequented. He'd know when they were headed home and he could sit in his car and watch them stumble home at night. Then watch and seem what bedroom lights were going off and on at night, and what their routines were. Maybe he knew KG was going to be there that weekend?

 

[mrjitty]

I'm not sure who "he" is in your post but so far as I know, BK hasn't made a public statement about what he did or didn't do re: stalking or re: anything else. BT spoke publicly in court, however.

When BT spoke in court, he was speaking about (& against) the defense survey questions. Those concerned with stalking used the word "one" not the word "none." So BT didn't come up with the word one out of thin air. And as I've said before, I'm also not sure why, as an officer of the court, BT would play word games to deliberately mislead the judge. Was the judge supposed to know he was being duplicitous and be able to figure out what he was really saying?

The relevant survey questions:

8. Have you read, seen or heard that Bryan Kohberger stalked one of the victims?
9. Have you read, seen or heard that Byran Kohberger had followed one of the victims on social media?

Bryan Kohberger did not stalk Idaho victim before murder, court hears

MOO

I agree that BT is speaking to the Judge, for the purposes of the integrity of the trial. They want to be aware of potential jurors who might have heard rumours via pre-trial publicity - that might be an issue

I agree there is no 9D chess there.

But I also think BT is not speaking about what the state case is. Might they suggest that the cellular evidence suggests BK previously staked out the house? IMO it's likely he selected the house somehow, and less likely he just chose that house in the moment. We just don't really know.

 

[NCWatcher]

I agree that BT is speaking to the Judge, for the purposes of the integrity of the trial. They want to be aware of potential jurors who might have heard rumours via pre-trial publicity - that might be an issue

I agree there is no 9D chess there.

But I also think BT is not speaking about what the state case is. Might they suggest that the cellular evidence suggests BK previously staked out the house? IMO it's likely he selected the house somehow, and less likely he just chose that house in the moment. We just don't really know.

I agree there's much we don't know about what happened or about what the available evidence suggests happened. Given that, we don't know that there WAS "stalking" of one or more victims. BT's in-court statements is one thing we do know though.
MOO

 

[mrjitty]

What BT said has zero to do with any prospective evidence the P may or may not introduce at trial to suggest BK was surveiling the house (and the victims) in the lead up to the murders. Moo

RSBM

I agree 100% with this.

 

[jepop]

Depends on the definition of stalking.
I don't believe it is a crime to be near someone's house.
However, MOO it is very relevant to have been near someone's house prior to a murder and can viewed as evidence of preplanning and/or related to motivation.

Yes, as part of the overall circumstances, having any proof he was near the house, late at night and in the early morning hours, on occasions prior to the murder is useful evidence for the case against Kohberger. Something a jury can consider in conjunction with other evidence ( ie the DNA). Especially if nothing is entered into evidence to suggest a reasonable alternative for what he was doing in close vicinity, say at 2am by way of example. Ie. I don't think star gazing at or near King Road on twelve prior occasions say between 12am and 4am would necessarily be bought by a jury. Shops are shut etc. What's he doing when there is at the very least evidence to show he was pinging nearby? Moo

Additionally, we have no idea re any gps data off his phone for those prior occasions. No gps analysis at the time of the PCA. Gps data could potentially update or refine any CAST reports. Jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

What's Life Really Like for Idaho's 8 Death-Row Inmates?

Is it as bad as we imagine?

mix106radio.com

What is an Idaho Death Row Inmate's So-Called Life?​

According to the Death Penalty Information Center, living conditions for those serving life sentences under the penalty of death is worse than we imagined.

In light of the severe nature of the inmates' punishment, DPIC raises an interesting question: are death-row inmates subjected to two distinct punishments?

The organization reasons the uncertainty of the death sentence itself coupled with the "years of living in conditions tantamount to solitary confinement" that's typically limited to short periods of time for general-population prisoners, account for two separate punishments.

On the bright side, if there is such a thing in this instance, death-row inmates are typically allowed the following privileges and materials:

• Medical care
• Periodic visitations
• Exercise time
• Media interviews
• Legal & social phone calls (after a death warrant is signed)
• Daily mail (excluding holidays and weekend)
• Snacks
• and radios as well as 13" TVs (but no cable)

Sadly, many more privileges to enjoy than the four victims after their brutal murders.

JMO

 

[jepop]

Because of the way the statute is written they’ll never get him on a stalking charge, which doesn’t matter. Quadruple murder makes that a moot point.

In regards to the rumors earlier about him supposedly following one of them on TikTok or whatever it was, that’s apparently completely false.

But this idea that a guy who planned this whole thing to a T, just randomly went to that house that night is absurd to me.

I’m convinced he knew of one or more of them, if only in passing (literally).

History says that’s almost certainly true.

Agree, so very unlikely the victims and house were randomly chosen that night. The case against BK is bound to show something to the contrary, Jmo, no matter what accuracy of cell phone location evidence the P has. Juries do tend to look at the totality imo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Kohberger not likely to avoid death penalty if convicted of Idaho student murders

There is little chance that Bryan Kohberger will avoid the death penalty if convicted of killing four Idaho college students in their off-campus apartment.

lawandcrime.com

There is little chance that Bryan Kohberger will avoid the death penalty if convicted of killing four Idaho college students in their off-campus apartment. Perpetrators of multiple heinous murders rarely escape that fate in states with capital punishment.

Kohberger’s legal team, in an effort to save his life if convicted, have filed a host of pretrial motions challenging the imposition of the death penalty and manner in which it is carried out.

Recently, an Idaho trial court sitting in Ada County denied all of Kohberger motions as they related to the death penalty.

Kohberger’s defense team had sought to remove the death penalty as a possible punishment. Kohberger’s attorneys argued that forcing inmates to wait for years on death row and the methods available for prisoners to be executed in Idaho both constitute cruel and unusual punishment. Attorneys also argued Idaho’s death penalty laws violate an international treaty banning the torture of prisoners.

I think the more cruel and unusual punishment here was received by the four innocent college students that were so brutally murdered. BK had no qualms in torturing Madison, Kaylee, Ethan and Xana with a 7 inch Kabar knife IMO.

I can accept whatever punishment a jury of BK's peers decide is appropriate if/when he is found guilty at trial.

JMO