4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97

[whiterhino]

Common sense.

He needed to get his car home because he knew he ruined his PHD program. He has a nice dad who moved him into his apartment and then helped him get his car back to the family home. And it sounds like BK pretty much cleaned out his apartment and storage and office which is necessary if not coming back.

I think this has to do with his not cutting it in his PHD program and not about being scared of arrest. I mean like he knew he could be arrested anywhere so leaving Pullman for good was not to protect himself from prosecution.

I believe he was scared of being arrested because of the glove and trash behavior at home where an article mentioned that his behavior was suspicious to his sister. Sounds like wearing gloves and sorting trash was not normal for him in his every day life at home with his family.

2 Cents

RBBM: JMHO He needed to get the car out of sight, out of the area. Driving was the better option versus leaving the car parked in Pullman to potentially be discovered/seized earlier than it was.

RBBM: Of course there are various practical and legitimate reasons for why BK packed up his things and drove home. As you said, the PhD program was over for BK. After the break there was nothing for BK to go back to in Pullman (other than the rest of his things).

RBBM: Again, JMHO and speculation I wonder if BK told his father not only in order to excuse packing the car and driving but to also cover for any future strange behavior in case his family noticed or wondered what was going on with him? Because basically that is exactly what happened!

 

[Balthazar]

RBBM: JMHO He needed to get the car out of sight, out of the area. Driving was the better option versus leaving the car parked in Pullman to potentially be discovered/seized earlier than it was.

RBBM: Of course there are various practical and legitimate reasons for why BK packed up his things and drove home. As you said, the PhD program was over for BK. After the break there was nothing for BK to go back to in Pullman (other than the rest of his things).

RBBM: Again, JMHO and speculation I wonder if BK told his father not only in order to excuse packing the car and driving but to also cover for any future strange behavior in case his family noticed or wondered what was going on with him? Because basically that is exactly what happened!

From what we know, the PhD program was NOT over for BK. He did not flunk out. He WAS fired from being a TA on December 19, 2022. However, he could still continue in the program, possibly under a different advisor or he could have changed to a different school for his PhD. As far as we know, he could have continued as a self-funded student, which means he would not need to work as a TA. From the documents, it appears that he was later trespassed from being on the WSU campus, AFTER he was under arrest.

Bryan Kohberger’s termination letter from WSU mentions ‘altercation’ with professor, lack of ‘professionalism’

The termination letter references an alleged “altercation” between Kohberger and the professor he was supporting as a teaching assistant.

www.wate.com

This is the December 30, 2022 Trespass notice - again, filed AFTER BK's arrest:

https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/Bryan%20kohberger%20trespass%20order.pdf

And, in fact, this notice in regards to BK's arrest from WSU indicates that he DID complete his first semester:

WSU releases statement on arrest of doctorate student in connection to Moscow murders

PULLMAN, Wash. - On Friday, 28-year-old Washington State University (WSU) graduate student Bryan Kohberger was arrested in connection to the four University of Idaho students who were murdered in November.

www.nbcrightnow.com

NONE of this is pro or con in regards to BK. It is just the factual information about what happened in regards to his PhD program. JMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

RBBM: JMHO He needed to get the car out of sight, out of the area. Driving was the better option versus leaving the car parked in Pullman to potentially be discovered/seized earlier than it was.

RBBM: Of course there are various practical and legitimate reasons for why BK packed up his things and drove home. As you said, the PhD program was over for BK. After the break there was nothing for BK to go back to in Pullman (other than the rest of his things).

RBBM: Again, JMHO and speculation I wonder if BK told his father not only in order to excuse packing the car and driving but to also cover for any future strange behavior in case his family noticed or wondered what was going on with him? Because basically that is exactly what happened!

Well he waited too long, his car was the key to their suspect.....it lead to his phone number from a previous stop and his physical description from his drivers license. .... all because a security guard saw it parked on campus.

 

[wendy44]

That is quite a leep considering there is an active gag order. Lest we forget trial is not here. We have no idea the evidence that prosecution has.

Besides, Tammy and Sidney Moorer were found guilty of kidnapping Heather Elvis, and sentenced, (to 30 years a piece?) when in fact she was murdered by them. It was a stroke of genius on the prosecution to use the kidnapping.

This is such a good case to keep in mind with regards to this one for several reasons. The prosecution said she was murdered in the SM's truck, but there was no evidence she'd even been in the truck, much less murdered there. No DNA trace of her at all. I wasn't really convinced it was where she was murdered because of that. Until the video from their own home camera. Right after she disappeared, they were shown outside their house cleaning that truck for hours. Every nook and cranny. In December, several days before Christmas. Everything they had used was then tossed into a burn pit. TM and her sister testified that the sister had bought them a cleaning kit for Christmas and they wanted to use it (and then burn it?). I didn't buy it after watching the video and apparently neither did the jury. So it's completely possible in my opinion that BK could clean his car after the murders and leave no trace of the victims in it. The Moorers did it and Heather was actually murdered there.

Identifying that truck on a home camera played a big part too.

This case is also one where there was so much we didn't know prior to TM's trial. That's not totally unusual, but TM's trial was somewhat shocking because SM had already been tried--different judge, different things he allowed in. There was a lot of evidence introduced in TM's trial we still, after numerous hearings and a whole trial of her husband, didn't know about. It's so odd to look at BK's case where everything has been sealed since the PCA and say there's no evidence of this or that. We really have no idea. JMO

I had some interactions with TM on a disney message board so I followed that trial pretty closely out of curiosity. I didn't think they would be able to get a conviction. Prosecutor Nancy Livesay gave one of the best closing arguments I've ever seen. I think it's still on YouTube. The way she laid out the timeline on the map with all the digital evidence and walked the jury through the events--it was masterful and I hope the prosecution here is going to do as well as she did and that we get to see it.

JMO

 

[snooptroop88]

BK was extremely meticulous with his digital footprint I believe. He even applied for a police internship involving online data to help the department with crime. I believe he was careful to keep his online "footprints" away from his victims.

I think he tried to be careful with his phone by not letting it signal for a couple hours that night. He seemed to know how to do that. Airplane mode? Turning it off? Whatever he did it was to hide his digital footprint.

I do not believe he would buy the murder weapon online because of leaving a digital footprint. I have not seen proof he bought murder items online.

If he bought any murder "kit" items online it will come out in court.

Knife, sheath, dark clothes, mask, blood cleaning supplies....etc...

2 Cents

Totally agreed on all of this, but since he didn't anticipate his own stupid mistake with the knife sheath (??), I'm still holding out hope he purchased that knife online. But agreed that if he is as meticulous as he appears to be, BK may well not have purchased it online.

I still can't believe he left that sheath. I shudder to think where this case might be right now if he hadn't.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

"Malicious behavior" describes it...first and second degree as the victim having knowledge because it causes them alarm, annoyance or harrassment. Sounds like victim awareness of the predator to me. AJMO

Section 18-7905 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Section 18-7906 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

You have to keep reading. What it says is the following:

"(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."

The word "or" between A and B is there for a reason. The victim absolutely does not need to be aware in order for the crime to meet the definition of criteria B.

I'll say MOO as I am not a lawyer, but IMO, the law is pretty plainly written. An individual must meet criteria A OR criteria B to be guilty of stalking. Criteria B makes no mention of the victim being aware.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

TITLE 18

CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS

CHAPTER 79

MALICIOUS HARASSMENT

18-7906. Stalking in the second degree. (1) A person commits the crime of stalking in the second degree if the person knowingly and maliciously:

(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member.

(2) As used in this section:

(a) "Course of conduct" means repeated acts of nonconsensual contact involving the victim or a family or household member of the victim, provided however, that constitutionally protected activity is not included within the meaning of this definition.

See my response above. You have to read the word "OR." It's very important here.

Criteria B pretty plainly says that a person can be guilty of stalking without the victim ever knowing. Even the "course of conduct" explanation does not say anything that makes me believe it's a requirement of state law for the victim to know.

Perfect example would be this. A person repeatedly following someone around town, following them to their parents house and parking on a side street watching them, then following them home or to work, maybe even coming into their home when they're away.

That individual has now engaged in a "course of conduct" that would cause "a reasonable person to fear to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member." He did so without consent of the person he's following.

He's now met Criteria B. Victim never had to be aware.

MOO as IANAL.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Totally agreed on all of this, but since he didn't anticipate his own stupid mistake with the knife sheath (??), I'm still holding out hope he purchased that knife online. But agreed that if he is as meticulous as he appears to be, BK may well not have purchased it online.

I still can't believe he left that sheath. I shudder to think where this case might be right now if he hadn't.

BK might have been smarter than an average perp committing these murders, but he was far from perfect. Most murderers are seldom able to pull it off with today's technology, but he was close IMO.

I hope we find out that he did purchase the knife on Amazon, that would go a long way for the State's case. The sheath may have been left in a moment of adrenaline rush, panic and excitement. I have always questioned if he knew Kaylee was home that weekend to show off her new car?

He could have known, as they posted that picture of all 6 of them on SM hours before this happened. Maybe he was watching the food truck video for kicks (creepy creeper vibes), saw Maddie and Kaylee and decided to make his move then? So many unknowns at this point.

JMO

 

[jepop]

BK was extremely meticulous with his digital footprint I believe. He even applied for a police internship involving online data to help the department with crime. I believe he was careful to keep his online "footprints" away from his victims.

I think he tried to be careful with his phone by not letting it signal for a couple hours that night. He seemed to know how to do that. Airplane mode? Turning it off? Whatever he did it was to hide his digital footprint.

I do not believe he would buy the murder weapon online because of leaving a digital footprint. I have not seen proof he bought murder items online.

If he bought any murder "kit" items online it will come out in court.

Knife, sheath, dark clothes, mask, blood cleaning supplies....etc...

2 Cents

Totally agree. I think he was meticulous and had the ability to carry out some sort of deep wipes of his devices to remove files. The various warrants dispatched to his ISP post arrest could be related to LE attempts to recover his internet history imo.

I think it's likely he used his phone and/or devices to study the layout of 1122 King Road at some point. I'm out as to whether or not he ever had an Instagram acc but if he did then jmo he would have been too careful to 'follow' any of the victims' with any account connected to him. More likely he used available apps to study public posts; then post crime or perhaps even as he went, performed regular deep wipes of files. Obviously this is just my conjecture, but as you mention it fits with BK's digital forensics background. Moo

ETA I'm also out on how he acquired the murder weopen. I think it's possible the P has evidence of a purchase in April 2022 or at the very least evidence he was shopping around for knives and specifically K-bars ( based on Amazon warrants and D's MTS; if the Amazon warrants show nothing suss then to my mind it isn't in the D's interest to submit a specific MTS for Amazon). Jmo

ETA x2 re his phone on the night of the murders, jmo he switched it off (shut it down) in Pullman at around 2.50am just prior to embarking to Moscow and fired back up when south of Moscow at around 4.50am ie. as per PCA re when his phone disconnected and reconnected with the network. Moo, since his arrest I believe forensic exam of his phone is likely to show evidence of this via logs. If so, that will come in as evidence at trial. Just speculation.

 

[mrjitty]

i kind of disagree he was careful.

He created digital evidence of driving around in the middle of the night such that he now requires an absurd alibi.

These clowns always make the mistake of turning their phone off at crime time then turning it back on afterwards.

 

[Trebor5591]

Court TV has a story on the "10 most anticipated trials of 2025" and I wasn't surprised to see that the trial of Bryan Kohberger was on the list. To be honest, that is the trial I want to see. I think there are many like me. Do you think the trail will be held in August 2025 as scheduled or will Kohberger's defense succeed in delaying justice for the victims even longer?

Court TV's most anticipated trials of 2025

From murder conspiracies to killer spouses, Court TV is bringing viewers inside the courtroom for the most high profile trials in 2025.

www.courttv.com

 

[Trebor5591]

Totally agreed on all of this, but since he didn't anticipate his own stupid mistake with the knife sheath (??), I'm still holding out hope he purchased that knife online. But agreed that if he is as meticulous as he appears to be, BK may well not have purchased it online.

I still can't believe he left that sheath. I shudder to think where this case might be right now if he hadn't.

The best laid plans of a criminal are subject to change, especially during the chaos of murder by knife, maybe in the dark. He thought he was smart and maybe he was but he made a huge mistake and now I think he is going receive the death penalty for his crimes. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

You have to keep reading. What it says is the following:

"(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."

The word "or" between A and B is there for a reason. The victim absolutely does not need to be aware in order for the crime to meet the definition of criteria B.

I'll say MOO as I am not a lawyer, but IMO, the law is pretty plainly written. An individual must meet criteria A OR criteria B to be guilty of stalking. Criteria B makes no mention of the victim being aware.

(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."


BBM
If a person IS alarmed, annoyed, feeling harrassed or IN fear of death or physical harm from someone it goes without saying that they know they are being singled out, stalked by someone. That's just logical. MO

 

[Swansee]

Do you think the trail will be held in August 2025 as scheduled or will Kohberger's defense succeed in delaying justice for the victims even longer?

RSBM
I think things seem to be on the right track for it to happen this summer. The judge does not seem keen on any further delays.
If there is a bump in the road, I fully expect it to be resolved, one way or another, by the end of this month.
Jan 23 hearing will be extremely interesting to watch, if it's kept open to the public. However since the last few batches of documents dropped, I'm starting to get the feeling that the Prosecution might request for this hearing to be closed.
JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Court TV has a story on the "10 most anticipated trials of 2025" and I wasn't surprised to see that the trial of Bryan Kohberger was on the list. To be honest, that is the trial I want to see. I think there are many like me. Do you think the trail will be held in August 2025 as scheduled or will Kohberger's defense succeed in delaying justice for the victims even longer?

Court TV's most anticipated trials of 2025

From murder conspiracies to killer spouses, Court TV is bringing viewers inside the courtroom for the most high profile trials in 2025.

www.courttv.com

Left off an extremely important one that happened 9 years ago as of April 22, 2016.

Rhoden and Gilley murders.

Thread 'OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #89'

Jul 29, 2017

PIKE COUNTY, Ohio —

A town woke up one morning to the horror that eight people were brutally killed. The Rhoden family suffered an unthinkable loss eight times over on one late April night in 2016. And years would go by before an arrest was made, and the massacre of an entire family still haunts Pike County, Ohio to this day. On April 22, 2021 Edward Jake Wagner pleads guilty and agrees to testify against family members.

PRESSER: APRIL 27, 2016

Video Interview...

• tlcya
• Replies: 1,004
• Forum: On-Trial

• 

 

[MeadowMuffin]

(a) Engages in a course of conduct that seriously alarms, annoys or harasses the victim and is such as would cause a reasonable person substantial emotional distress; or

(b) Engages in a course of conduct such as would cause a reasonable person to be in fear of death or physical injury, or in fear of the death or physical injury of a family or household member."


BBM
If a person IS alarmed, annoyed, feeling harrassed or IN fear of death or physical harm from someone it goes without saying that they know they are being singled out, stalked by someone. That's just logical. MO

@sunshineray, thanks for bolding and responding. This is exactly true. Of course a person has to be aware of being stalked. If a person is not aware of it, where would the complaint come from? This is pretty self-evident. IMO.

 

[Trebor5591]

The motion to suppress has multiple arguments
MTS Lamsden

This Court Should Apply Idaho’s Exclusionary Rule and Law to this Search.

Mr. Kohberger has standing to challenge the search of his parents’ home

Pennsylvania Law Enforcement Violated Mr. Kohberger’s Fourth Amendment Rights by Entering and Searching His Parents’ Home without a Valid Local Warrant.

a. The Idaho arrest warrant could not have given police in Pennsylvania the authority to enter the home.

<snip>

Wait..are you telling us that LE did not have a Pennsylvania search warrant before entering his parent's Pennsylvania home and arresting him in the middle of the night???? Unbelievable (IMO)!

 

[Trebor5591]

From what we know, the PhD program was NOT over for BK. He did not flunk out. He WAS fired from being a TA on December 19, 2022. However, he could still continue in the program, possibly under a different advisor or he could have changed to a different school for his PhD. As far as we know, he could have continued as a self-funded student, which means he would not need to work as a TA. From the documents, it appears that he was later trespassed from being on the WSU campus, AFTER he was under arrest.

Bryan Kohberger’s termination letter from WSU mentions ‘altercation’ with professor, lack of ‘professionalism’

The termination letter references an alleged “altercation” between Kohberger and the professor he was supporting as a teaching assistant.

www.wate.com

This is the December 30, 2022 Trespass notice - again, filed AFTER BK's arrest:

https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/Bryan%20kohberger%20trespass%20order.pdf

And, in fact, this notice in regards to BK's arrest from WSU indicates that he DID complete his first semester:

WSU releases statement on arrest of doctorate student in connection to Moscow murders

PULLMAN, Wash. - On Friday, 28-year-old Washington State University (WSU) graduate student Bryan Kohberger was arrested in connection to the four University of Idaho students who were murdered in November.

www.nbcrightnow.com

NONE of this is pro or con in regards to BK. It is just the factual information about what happened in regards to his PhD program. JMO.

In my opinion, his printed name and signature looks like it was made by a child!

 

[sunshineray]

@sunshineray, thanks for bolding and responding. This is exactly true. Of course a person has to be aware of being stalked. If a person is not aware of it, where would the complaint come from? This is pretty self-evident. IMO.

A person in the legal sense, it seems, has to be aware. A being in the layman's term of stalking, as in the actions of any animal predator, usually doesn't realize the danger of being singled out/stalked until the attack happens. The former is how I see it happening in the Idaho case ergo probably the reason why BK is not charged with stalking but why it may come in at trial for motive. Trial will tell. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

From what we know, the PhD program was NOT over for BK. He did not flunk out. He WAS fired from being a TA on December 19, 2022. However, he could still continue in the program, possibly under a different advisor or he could have changed to a different school for his PhD. As far as we know, he could have continued as a self-funded student, which means he would not need to work as a TA. From the documents, it appears that he was later trespassed from being on the WSU campus, AFTER he was under arrest.

Bryan Kohberger’s termination letter from WSU mentions ‘altercation’ with professor, lack of ‘professionalism’

The termination letter references an alleged “altercation” between Kohberger and the professor he was supporting as a teaching assistant.

www.wate.com

This is the December 30, 2022 Trespass notice - again, filed AFTER BK's arrest:

https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/Bryan%20kohberger%20trespass%20order.pdf

And, in fact, this notice in regards to BK's arrest from WSU indicates that he DID complete his first semester:

WSU releases statement on arrest of doctorate student in connection to Moscow murders

PULLMAN, Wash. - On Friday, 28-year-old Washington State University (WSU) graduate student Bryan Kohberger was arrested in connection to the four University of Idaho students who were murdered in November.

www.nbcrightnow.com

NONE of this is pro or con in regards to BK. It is just the factual information about what happened in regards to his PhD program. JMO.

Wow sure sounds like he was having some anger issues starting in late September. Was this his first semester at Washington State?