4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[wendy44]

BBM

Referring the D to a bates number.
The P wants the D to determine what the experts opinion is by reading a lab report.
A lab report has a result which does not equal a summary of an expert opinion.
If the expert is just going to testify that this is the result. ok.
If they are going to give an opinion regarding the result. Need a summary.
JMO


(7) Expert Witnesses. On written request of the defendant, the prosecutor must provide a written summary or report of any testimony that the state intends to introduce at trial or at a hearing pursuant to Rules 702, 703 or 705 of the Idaho Rules of Evidence. The summary provided must describe the witness’s opinions, the facts and data for those opinions, and the witness's qualifications. Disclosure of expert opinions regarding mental health must also comply with the requirements of Idaho Code § 18-207. The prosecution is not required to produce any materials not subject to disclosure under subsection (g) of this Rule. This subsection does not require disclosure of expert witnesses, their opinions, the facts and data for those opinions, or the witness's qualifications, intended only to rebut evidence or theories that have not been disclosed under this Rule prior to trial.
JMO

The genetic material information is sealed.

The State itself uses S1 as an example then states that it follows suit with S16-20 and S22-25.

The D replied using the same example.

JMO

The state went through each of the 25 potential expert witnesses it intends to call at trial and made their argument for how they have complied with Idaho Criminal Rule. I don't know how the judge will rule on any of this. But it's a pretty big stretch for the defense to say that S-1, which deals with toxicology reports of the victims, is an example of how the state's disclosures related to DNA are lacking. And pulling one sentence out of a footnote--The lab protocols and evidence collection procedures have not been disclosed--doesn't provide the context of the sentence, which was about the toxicology lab, not the DNA information.

The state rightly made the observation in their reply:

Defendant complains and appears to represent that he has not been provided with adequate information from the State. This is patently untrue. By way of example, to appreciate the true degree of analysis and use by the Defendant of discovery that has been provided, the Court need look no further than the extensive detail in the Defendant’s motion for a Franks hearing, the 20 plus supplemental discovery requests and related materials, and the many other detailed substantive motions he has filed.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

All MOO

The defense wants it tossed b/c the prosecution won't show their process/work on they get the results. They haven't shown the 'formula' they used and are still keeping it a secret.

Why won't they just show the defense? What's the big secret?

Not saying BK is innocent but personally in my opinion from what we've seen they have nearly nothing on BK to prosecute him. Sure they've told everyone it's his DNA but why won't they just show the defense how they came to that conclusion?

Other than the DNA they literally have nothing on him in my opinion. They can't even prove BK was ever at the house or even ever in the house.

Apologies if this opinion isn't popular but personally I just don't see what clear cut evidence they have against him. Obviously that could all change but from what I've seen it's by no means a slam dunk.


MOO

His DNA is at the crime scene.
MOO he is guilty, though lawyering he might go free.
This is about how the arrest was made not whether its his DNA at the scene.

 

[wendy44]

I agree.

I take issue with trying to blame the fbi (only) for being responsible for holding it back or not wanting to produce it.

The State tried to protect it, some of it was ordered to be produced, and it was produced.

JMO

Again I agree.
JMO

I'm not "blaming" anyone. It's court record that the local prosecution did not have the work product and that it was held by the FBI.


JMO

 

[MassGuy]

His DNA is at the crime scene.
MOO he is guilty, though lawyering he might go free.
This is about how the arrest was made not whether its his DNA at the scene.

I’m not the least bit concerned here; I mean zero.

They have him dead to rights, and the only thing I am concerned about is knowing as much as possible in regards to how this all came to be.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity.

 

[Tealgrove]

I feel like I’m back in Delphi reliving the Abby and Libby trial.

MOO or should I say MOOOOOOO

 

[INfisherman]

I feel like I’m back in Delphi reliving the Abby and Libby trial.

MOO or should I say MOOOOOOO

Nah, this defense team hasn’t started posting evidence on YouTube or crowdsourcing motions to correct errors via X yet.

JMO

 

[Swansee]

I like Judge Hippler a lot, but I don't understand his reasoning on the IGG hearing unsealing (yes, I have read the document).
Overwhelmingly, the public is already convinced that BK is guilty. Just look at the media coverage of this case, there are literally zero MSM outlets who even entertain the option of his innocence. I don't see how unsealing IGG would make that any worse.
I do like that he mentioned during yesterday's hearing that he may release partial transcripts after the IGG hearing takes place. I hope that will actually happen.

 

[jepop]

I'm just posting the direct link from Idaho Cases of Interest Page to Judge Hippler's Livestream. I think there's an option for email alerts.

Idaho Fourth District Court

www.youtube.com

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[CKS]

Focusing on the following, as I find it remarkable.

Not saying BK is innocent but personally in my opinion from what we've seen they have nearly nothing on BK to prosecute him. Sure they've told everyone it's his DNA but why won't they just show the defense how they came to that conclusion?

They have his DNA at the murder scene, on the sheath of a murder weapon used to massacre 4 people.

His phone was conveniently off during the period of the murders.

A matching car was spotted at the murder scene, and also spotted returning to his college after his phone came back online.

His phone data had him at that scene multiple times in the weeks prior to the murders, at suspicious times (late at night, early morning).

Two independent lines of inquiry, done by different agencies, both focused in on the same guy (Feds with IGG, and WSU with the car).

You say this is thin, and I say this is a slam dunk already.

There’s more coming…

All MOO

Yes they have some 'transfer' DNA aka touch DNA on a moveable object and it was so little that the Idaho lab couldn't properly test it from what I understand. I believe the US military along with a list of other countries doesn't even allow touch/transfer DNA as evidence in court which should tell you something.

Also, we do not know for certain that a kbar was used do we? We assume. But we don't actually know for a fact and a sheath is not an actual weapon. They also somehow by some miraculous way have literally not one spec of any other DNA evidence at the house nor is their a spec of DNA evidence in his car, apartment, office, etc. Some of you have tried to brush this off but this in itself is a miracle that not one drop of blood or hair strand was found in BK's car, apt, office, etc.

They did not match his car as you say and as we all know seemed to have changed the year of the car to fit his car allegedly. Matching his car would be something like them having his license plate on video. We had a local LE agent take it upon himself to change the year of the car and override a FBI special agent who is actually a specialist.

They don't have any phone data whatsoever that you speak of. It's been said his phone pinged off a specific tower which just happens to be around 10 miles from BK's apartment so he may have 'pinged' that tower possibly by just being in his apartment in my opinion.

We had Sy Ray testify all the phone data he's seen is exculpatory and somehow the most important cell phone data during the time of the murder just happens to be 'missing'. When that data is finally presented it may show that BK wasn't even in the same neighborhood that night when it happened. But even if that's not true and he was in the neighborhood at that time they still have no physical proof he's ever been in that house or even on the same street.

LE has said he never stalked them and didn't know the victims so there is no motive.

Then you get into how one person with one knife allegedly somehow just walked into their apartment in the middle of the night like a ninja while they were all awake and killed four people in ten minutes. Then somehow miraculously doesn't have a scratch on him it appears b/c he did have a doctors appointment a couple days later and allegedly did not have any cuts or bruises. Wasn't E like 6'4"? Then the defense is going to ask DM how she heard someone playing with their dog and a someone saying I'm here to help but somehow didn't hear four roommates being slaughtered. Then they'll ask her about her you know actually seeing a stranger walking through her house late at night with a mask on and why she casually went back to sleep and didn't call 911 until 8 hours later.

Who knows about BF? We really don't know what she saw/heard but we do know for some reason the defense has claimed she has exculpatory evidence which is weird to say the least.



Also, in regards to the 'white elantra' it's not like they've found a stolen one that was used and had blood from the victims in it or even a dog hair from the Murphy. No instead they have a white car that may have absolutely nothing to do with the murders.

The night it all happened I'm sure there were numerous cars they saw on surveillance cameras right? Well, what exactly made them think 'white elantra'? It's not like they picked that car b/c they have video of BK running out of the house and hopping in his white elantra do they? They didn't find any evidence in his car that has anything to do with any of the victims right? For all we know the white elantra has nothing to do with the crime itself. I mean it might but how can you be 100% certain from what we've seen that it has anything to do with it? Where is the proof?

So the one and only thing that actually ties BK to the crime is the transfer/touch DNA but for some reason LE to this day will not show the defense how they matched the DNA. Why? Recently you have BK requesting a public trial but for some reason the judge doesn't allow it? It is his right to a public trial is it not?

I'll end with saying I am not saying BK did not commit this crime but I am showing you in my opinion it's not some slam dunk case you think it is.

There are plenty of examples to poke holes and to show reasonable doubt that he may not have done it.

As I've said numerous times I think BK was involved in some way and I hope they have a lot more evidence to convict him. I'm just worried that somehow BK finds a way to walk.

<modsnip: Blackstone is a judicial principal that does not apply to Websleuths members or members of the general public who are all entitled to an opinion>

All MOO

 

[mmeynstyn]

I like Judge Hippler a lot, but I don't understand his reasoning on the IGG hearing unsealing (yes, I have read the document).
Overwhelmingly, the public is already convinced that BK is guilty. Just look at the media coverage of this case, there are literally zero MSM outlets who even entertain the option of his innocence. I don't see how unsealing IGG would make that any worse.
I do like that he mentioned during yesterday's hearing that he may release partial transcripts after the IGG hearing takes place. I hope that will actually happen.

IMO he is just trying to limit the IGG information/narrative to the facts. IMO he is staying neutral. Is not thinking about innocence or guilt. Since there is so much misinformation in the media these days, he does not want accusations from either side to be the focus of the information released. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

All MOO

The defense wants it tossed b/c the prosecution won't show their process/work on they get the results. They haven't shown the 'formula' they used and are still keeping it a secret.

Why won't they just show the defense? What's the big secret?

Not saying BK is innocent but personally in my opinion from what we've seen they have nearly nothing on BK to prosecute him. Sure they've told everyone it's his DNA but why won't they just show the defense how they came to that conclusion?

Other than the DNA they literally have nothing on him in my opinion. They can't even prove BK was ever at the house or even ever in the house.

Apologies if this opinion isn't popular but personally I just don't see what clear cut evidence they have against him. Obviously that could all change but from what I've seen it's by no means a slam dunk.


MOO

Small amount of evidence? They have nearly nothing on BK to prosecute him?

I have never heard anyone say that about this case. There is so much evidence that AT had mentioned having someone help her organize it. This is a 3 month trial because of all the evidence and hundreds of witnesses, AT mentioned 400 witnesses but then lowered that amount.

Latah County Deputy Prosecutor Ashley Jennings said prosecution has given the defense a 50-terabyte hard drive, more than 13,000 photographs, more than 15,000 video clips from businesses and more than 8,000 video clips from residences. She claimed that the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's Office have not given prosecution all of the evidence the defense is requesting.

Moscow Police Det. Brett Payne was called to the witness stand by the defense. He testified that thousands of hours of surveillance footage were collected during the investigation into Kohberger. The videos came from 79 businesses and residences.

Anne Taylor asked for documents pertaining to Kohberger’s cellphone location data,
the determinations a forensic analyst made about the make and model of the suspect’s vehicle,
training schedules for three Idaho State Police officers involved in the investigation,
body and dashcam footage related to the search warrant at Kohberger's Pennsylvania residence,
lab testing results,
notes and recordings from the Moscow Police Department,
all police reports and audio/video evidence related to Kohberger's arrest and detainment in Pennsylvania.

Hundreds of pages of redacted warrants and warrant returns,
Latah County prosecutor case filings,
records from some of the biggest companies in social media,
shopping store records,
banking records,
telecommunications records.

Search warrants to AT&T,
Verizon Wireless,
T-Mobile,
Inland Cellular — a regional carrier that operates in north-central Idaho and southeastern Washington,
history of all the devices that pinged cell towers within a half-mile radius of the Moscow home and
defense received the bulk of the data within just a couple of days and began to pore over the GPS coordinates of cellphones and other devices on the nearby networks,
Taylor questioned a Moscow police detective about the preparation of visual cell phone logs and methods for searching for certain videos.

Cell phone tower and radio frequency experts to partially corroborate his proposed alibi that he was out driving west of Moscow.

The judge allowed surveys conducted with potential jurors to continue “without modification” after temporarily pausing them,
timeline of how police began to focus on Kohberger,
the judge ruled to allow unnamed “defense investigators” to view the genetic genealogy evidence.

PCA...Potential witnesses.....

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Idaho State Crime Lab
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media
Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Othram (Genetics)
CODIS

2 Cents

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler

BryanKohberger #Idaho4




11:15 AM · Jan 23, 2025

https://twitter.com/x/status/1882462243851485504

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler

While we wait on the public portions of today's #BryanKohberger hearing over arguments to exclude certain evidence from his #Idaho4 murder trial, now's a good time to catch up if you're behind. Here's the latest, a preview on what we're doing here today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1882466076908486978

 

[arielilane]

Today begins a two-day hearing in the #Idaho4 #BryanKohberger case. The judge has closed the courtroom because some presentations will be under seal. The live feed will go off and on during the day depending on what is being discussed. The judge is very concerned about tainting a jury now that the case has been moved to Boise after worries that they couldn't get a fair jury in the original jurisdiction.

LIVE HEARING: Idaho Student Murders — ID v. Bryan Kohberger

https://youtube.com/live/sFCpQxidikI?si=hi3zOMMlwOTrPjJZ via @YouTube

https://twitter.com/x/status/1882455112138043506

 

[arielilane]

Another option...

@NewswithKait

A hearing in the Bryan Kohberger murder trial is scheduled for this morning. Part of the hearing is closed to the public, but once proceedings are open again, the video will start.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1882464504824619277

 

[Arkay]

Then the defense is going to ask DM how she heard someone playing with their dog and a someone saying I'm here to help but somehow didn't hear four roommates being slaughtered. Then they'll ask her about her you know actually seeing a stranger walking through her house late at night with a mask on and why she casually went back to sleep and didn't call 911 until 8 hours later.

Yes, this may be puzzling on its face, but that doesn’t exonerate BK. It’s a reality that four students were slaughtered in the house, no matter who it was, so why she didn’t hear it all or call 911 is not exculpatory for Bryan and doesn’t negate that these murders did ensue in their home.



<modsnip: Quoted information was modsnipped>

IMO trying to get the DNA thrown out is consciousness of guilt.

I know I didn’t kill them so I have no worries that the DNA is going to point to me.

If BK were innocent, then the identified DNA would be his best hope and his best friend and his best defense, because it would point away from him.

JMO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

How "meticulously" had this guy been cleaning his car if it's still got old receipts from 2018 lying around in it?
Also, in the footage from the highway stop, in the only closeup shot, the inside of that car handle doesn't look to me like he's been deep cleaning every nook and cranny of his vehicle.
So after the murders he just kept his dirty car full of evidence for weeks and waited to get back to PA to deep clean it? But still left all kinds of ancient receipts, empty water bottles and used weed baggies in there ?
So much of the car stuff doesn't make sense to me. When is the post-murder deep cleaning supposed to have happened?
JMO.

How do we know BK didn't intentionally leave an old receipt in his car for, just that - reasonable doubt that it had been thoroughly cleaned? We just don't know. JMO

I quoted the first post and then came across the one below, which says what I was going to say too.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that BK is cunning enough to clean his car interior to within an inch of its life, and also hold on to various rubbish that he found in there beforehand, with the intention to strew the contents back around the car and throw LE off. Make it look like he wasn't meticulous in his actions. Just a theory!

That is only one of many, many possibilities. Unlike most people here, I don't latch onto any one theory, I just observe what is going on. It is clear that the defense thinks something is very wrong with the IGG. We don't know what yet. For some reason, BK sent his DNA in to one of those companies that help determine ancestry before all of this happened.

Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger sent DNA for genetic testing to explore ancestry: neighbor

Bryan Kohberger told a fellow grad student that he explored his ancestry by submitting DNA for genetic testing – which could shed light on how investigators used forensic genealogy to zero in on th…

nypost.com

From the above information, I would assume BK and his attorneys have had access to BK's DNA results since his arrest. IMO, the defense knows what the DNA results should be. IF they don't match, there is a problem. The Prosecution has tried their best to hide everything about the procedures for processing the DNA and IGG from the defense. But this is a scientific process. There should be zero reason to want to hide this information, especially the methodology they used to get the information.

Not necessarily. I think that really depends on what the problem with the DNA is. LE claimed that they identified BK via his father's DNA. The defense seems to believe something is wrong with that.

Are the tests wrong in some way - either methodology or result? We don't know - we have not seen what the defense has.

JMO.

I am not sure, but I think you may be asking why, if BK submitted a sample of his DNA to an ancestry site, he was not identified as a suspect straight away, and why did they need to go the IGG route if his DNA was sitting there ready to match?, and the simplest answer to that question would most likely be that he submitted his sample to either Ancestry.com or 23andme, both of which do not allow access to LE.
I have wondered if that is why the D want to see the IGG info, are they trying to see if the sample was run illegally though either if those companies?.

Interestingly, if it turns out that BK willingly provided a sample of his DNA to a genealogy database, albeit it one that LE isn't allowed access to, can it really be argued that his constitutional rights have been breached when his relatives DNA led back to him without his express permission?.

There is also always the possibility that BK was just lying to the neighbour to throw him off the scent, ie obviously can't be me or they would have matched my DNA, and he never sent a sample at all.

All MOO

 

[Swansee]

The YouTube stream said they were on break, and now it's back to more closed stuff. So, when does the open part begin? At this rate I doubt it'll be before lunch.
Is there some other social media page where they will give an estimate ahead of time?

@mmeynstyn
Yes, that is probably the judge's intention. I guess I just don't agree with his idea that less official release of information will somehow lead to less media misinformation. Quite the contrary IMO, and anyway when it comes to misinformation on this case, I'd say the damage is already done (on both sides). But I'll admit, I am biased on this because I just really want to know.

 

[MassGuy]

The YouTube stream said they were on break, and now it's back to more closed stuff. So, when does the open part begin? At this rate I doubt it'll be before lunch.
Is there some other social media page where they will give an estimate ahead of time?

@mmeynstyn
Yes, that is probably the judge's intention. I guess I just don't agree with his idea that less official release of information will somehow lead to less media misinformation. Quite the contrary IMO, and anyway when it comes to misinformation on this case, I'd say the damage is already done (on both sides). But I'll admit, I am biased on this because I just really want to know.

I wouldn't be surprised if this closed portion took up most of the day, if not all of it. I don't think we'll have an estimate, as there's no one in the court to tell us where they are in the proceedings.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Focusing on the following, as I find it remarkable.

Not saying BK is innocent but personally in my opinion from what we've seen they have nearly nothing on BK to prosecute him. Sure they've told everyone it's his DNA but why won't they just show the defense how they came to that conclusion?

They have his DNA at the murder scene, on the sheath of a murder weapon used to massacre 4 people.

I think the poster was saying that without the DNA, they don't have anything. In other words, were it not for the DNA, would there be a case? IMO, no there would not. Poster can correct me if I misinterpreted.

His phone was conveniently off during the period of the murders.

Off or out of range? Was that ever settled? And I'm sure the phones of many others in the area was off or out of range too.

A matching car was spotted at the murder scene, and also spotted returning to his college after his phone came back online.

The same car they misidentified at least once before they had a suspect. This will hurt the prosecution, IMO.

His phone data had him at that scene multiple times in the weeks prior to the murders, at suspicious times (late at night, early morning).

No, it didn't. The phone data had him using wifi in an area close to the crime scene, it never actually placed him at the crime scene. This is important because their house isn't the only thing in that area, IIRC.

Two independent lines of inquiry, done by different agencies, both focused in on the same guy (Feds with IGG, and WSU with the car).

Do you mean the WSU parking attendant? I'm not sure what you're saying here.

You say this is thin, and I say this is a slam dunk already.

There’s more coming…

I say it's painfully thin without DNA.

MOO