4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

Yes.
I think that refers to this part in the PCA
D.M. did not state that she recognized the male

And according to AJ, her description was skinny slim and lean. Throughout the entire investigation.

How did that change to
not very muscular, but athletically built
in the PCA

JMO

It would have been very dubious if she had been able to recognize BK as being the guy, based on what little she could see. The defense would have ripped that apart, and rightfully so. She should not have been able to identify him after the fact.

Those descriptions are synonyms. I see nothing contradictory there at all.

 

[DizzyB]

OJ Simpson was about the time that DNA evidence was jsut being used and was "a little over the heads" of the jury that was ultimately selected. Overly technical presentation. Also ,major police corruption (what was the detective's name: Mark Furman???) in the investigation doomed that one. And OJ was a celebrity.

Casey Anthony was another head scratcher I agree.

This one seems more straight forward.. .but what do I know? I think there is still a 5% chance he is not convicted.

OJ was a long time ago. He had a terrific defense team, Barry Scheck argued the heck out of the DNA that really was in its infancy in courtrooms at that time. Casey Anthony’s attorney threw a lot of alternate suspects in there that you didn’t like also.
I do worry that jurors expect trials to be as on television, like CSI on steroids. We are spoiled, we want all the answers. A juror might find one thing that does not have the t’s crossed and the i-s dotted, and refuse to find a defendant guilty. Real life isn’t like that.
The ability of your attorney to find loopholes and things that the other side might have done wrong can change the outcome. Sometimes it’s not about whodunit.

 

[Nila Aella]

It would have been very dubious if she had been able to recognized BK as being the guy, based on what little she could see. The defense would have ripped that apart, and rightfully so. She should not have been able to identify him after the fact.

Wondering what they showed her: his face or complete body photo for size?
Did she say anything? Like Similar, Maybe, I can't tell, No, Could be, Yes those bushy brows.
Maybe we will get more details on this photo and what she said when she saw it.
They could have showed her just to see if she knew him from anywhere, not just from that night.
JMO

Those descriptions are synonyms. I see nothing contradictory there at all.

They are not her words.
They are BPs words.
And they are not synonyms for lean, skinny, slim (which are synonyms for each other)
Athletic is muscular. And muscular is a synonym for athletic.
So what is athletic but not muscular mean?

I would never have described BK as skinny and slim. I hear that and I think of a totally different body type.

JMO
edit - thin changed to slim

 

[ilovewings]

And this case is not a slam dunk. It’s a reverse 360 alley oop slam dunk, IMO.

The only way it could be any stronger is if it was captured on video or directly witnessed by a crowd of people.

Very few cases are slam dunks and this is no exception.

 

[schooling]

Very few cases are slam dunks and this is no exception.

"IMO"

I stand by it.

 

[jepop]

It would have been very dubious if she had been able to recognize BK as being the guy, based on what little she could see. The defense would have ripped that apart, and rightfully so. She should not have been able to identify him after the fact.

Those descriptions are synonyms. I see nothing contradictory there at all.

Agree, it's completely realistic that DM did not recognise the stranger as BK. This is not a direct identification by DM and was clearly not intended to be in the PCA. It is a generic description which does not exclude the suspect.

Skinny, slim, lean.

Skinny ie not muscular
Lean ie athletically built
Slim ie not obese, not necessarily muscle bound?

In the PCA the language at that juncture is simply an accurate summing up of the three adjectives mentioned by AJ at the hearing. The descriptors aren't in quotation marks and as you say, not contradictory.

Imo nothing is changed and there isn't anything wrong or misleading about the more formalised language adopted to convey DM's description of the stranger she witnessed.

 

[schooling]

Which is exactly what we all thought about Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson. Just to name two "slam dunk" cases that came to me.

I don't think those two cases are comparable to this one.

Looking back at Casey, there was reasonable doubt, there wasn't a single piece of evidence that they had on her that couldn't have had a plausible alternative explanation, even though I'm pretty confident she did it. While I think OJ gets convicted with today's understanding of DNA, there was plenty of reasonable doubt just in the way the chain of evidence was handled.

All of the explanations for BKs calamity of errors require unreasonable and often illogical leaps. Particularly when put together on a timeline.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

"IMO"

I stand by it.

Yeah, this is rock solid. Of course the defense is going to make the arguments you'd expect them to make (tunnel vision, sloppy police work, foreign DNA, attacking cell phone/surveilance evidence).

Those won't move the needle, and in addition to that, there's going to be Amazon, Google, and Apple evidence that will complete this picture. I do hope that some of his background information comes in, as that's important context. We've heard lots of anecdotal information about issues with women, anger problems, school problems, and a change in behavior after these crimes. I'd love to hear (on the record) from fellow students, professors, etc.

I remain convinced that he hates women, felt his brilliance was unrecognized, and that factored into motive. I believe his trouble at school (TA position and ultimate firing), acted as a precipitating stressor here. He was unraveling.

He couldn't be a more perfect suspect. I'd love to see the FBI profile, because I think it'll be spot on.

 

[Jade]

Runners are athletic but not muscular, imo.

BK an avid runner with their typical build, a vegan naturally a lower body mass, so BP is good at observations, imo.

[...]
"Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022; as he often did to hike and run and/or see the moon and stars," the filing reads.

It also states that Kohberger was an avid runner and hiker, but adds that his hiking and running decreased during the school year, but "his nighttime drives increased."
[...]

How Strong Is Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Alibi? Legal Expert Weighs In (Exclusive)

Bryan Kohberger — the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students — claims he was driving alone and was outside of Moscow on the night of the murders.

people.com

BK looks pretty thin, gaunt even, in the photos in this article.

all imo

 

[jepop]

Agreed. I believe he is the main reason the gag order was required in the first place. JMO

Jmo his lawyer, whose name escapes me, really ran his mouth in the early days back in 2023. At a minimum non-d order was instrumental in forcing his lawyer to zip it ( moo). I think part of the issue was SG getting bad advice from the lawyer. Moo

 

[Justice101]

Her description of the intruder (face mask on) is only "consistent" with it being BK....
1) Sex was male
2) General body build - athletics but not muscular
3) Bush eyebrows
4) Height

IMO, at trial, the prosecution will only say the eyewitness description does not exclude BK.

This is minor and will be less that 1% of their case.

 

[wendy44]

I remember that Natalie Keepers (the Nicole Lovell murder) needs some special diet too. I wonder if she is getting it. Are there any special laws about this? Surely prison services can't be expected to provide special meals for every single person who wants them. And, IMO, why should their "human rights" be pandered to, when their victims had all their rights horrendously taken from them?

I think it was at one of her first hearings--her dad complained that she needed gluten-free and some sort of special mattress. I don't remember if they accommodated her, but likely they at least accommodated her gluten-free.

As for the car years--I get the argument. It's suspect to change the identification of the model year of the Elantra in the video after you have gotten BK's name and and found out what year he drives. It's natural to wonder, without any other information, if that's why the change was made. We have no idea if that was the case, but I don't think even the defense tried to say that when they were arguing for Franks. We found out in one of the recent hearings that the local law enforcement was not given BK's name by the FBI until December 22/23. We also know they didn't have the WSU info before that date. We don't know yet when they made the change to the model years or why, but if it was before December 22/23, the change wasn't made due to having the name or the WSU info. The defense not making the argument that the change was made after they had his name makes me lean toward a paper trail that the change was made prior to having the name and due to finding more video or handing it over to other experts.

As for the DM's description--AJ wasn't looking at anything DM said in her interviews when she talked about how DM described him. AJ was just loosely arguing that DM's description was always consistent because the defense was trying to say that DM's conflicting statements should have been provided to the magistrate who may have changed her mind on the warrant. AJ was describing DM's statement in general terms and she could have been more precise if she had the statement in front of her reading what DM actually said. There's no indication DM described him as skinny in one interview and muscular in another or that her descriptions were conflicting or inconsistent with what BK actually looks like. And there's no way a magistrate is going to decline to issue the warrant if she said skinny in one interview and lean in another and athletic in another when they have BK's DNA on the sheath left at the scene, which was the point of the hearing.
JMO

 

[INfisherman]

So what is athletic but not muscular mean?

RSBM

Think of someone who runs quite a bit or a medium to long distance runner. Probably built like that.

Ironic.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I didn't dispute that. I said that information does not equal evidence. Not all information is evidence and in this case, just based on what's been released to the public, very little of the information is actual evidence.

MOO.

I’m a bit confused.
What criteria are you using to discern information from evidence?
I kinda think it’s a moot point right now anyway. Nothing is evidence until it is entered as such at the trial.

 

[CKS]

It would have been very dubious if she had been able to recognize BK as being the guy, based on what little she could see. The defense would have ripped that apart, and rightfully so. She should not have been able to identify him after the fact.

Those descriptions are synonyms. I see nothing contradictory there at all.

All MOO
Just trying to understand your post.

Are you trying to convince people that if DM could of spotted BK in a lineup or a picture that would be bad for the prosecution and good for BK?

 

[CKS]

Very few cases are slam dunks and this is no exception.

All MOO

It's unfortunate but the more that is revealed the more it's a slam dunk to convince 1 juror of reasonable doubt in my opinion.


Again, I think BK was involved but I'm also not convinced he was the only one. Whether he had a driver or he was the get away driver in someone else's car I don't know. I do know that I would be everything I own that BK did not flee the scene that night in his car considering it was tested by LE and they found nothing.

 

[Justice101]

RSBM

Think of someone who runs quite a bit or a medium to long distance runner. Probably built like that.

Ironic.

JMO

Also, wasn't he into martial arts? Judo or Karate? If so, that would explain his build even more.

 

[MassGuy]

All MOO
Just trying to understand your post.

Are you trying to convince people that if DM could of spotted BK in a lineup or a picture that would be bad for the prosecution and good for BK?

No, but it would likely be a wash. She was his upper face, to include his eyes and eyebrows. Any good defense attorney would destroy an identification like that.

She saw exactly what she should have seen, and should not have been able to confidently identify him. She was traumatized, and apparently under the influence of alcohol. They were lucky she even remembered the bushy eyebrows part.

Her testimony is valuable in regards to timing, and painting a bit of a picture as to the events that night. Her description doesn't matter much.

 

[Nila Aella]

Agree, it's completely realistic that DM did not recognise the stranger as BK. This is not a direct identification by DM and was clearly not intended to be in the PCA. It is a generic description which does not exclude the suspect.

Skinny, slim, lean.

Skinny ie not muscular
Lean ie athletically built
Slim ie not obese, not necessarily muscle bound?

In the PCA the language at that juncture is simply an accurate summing up of the three adjectives mentioned by AJ at the hearing. The descriptors aren't in quotation marks

We have to watch for quotation marks to see if the witness actually said what the affiant is describing?
Good to know.

So this part might not be her words?
D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D.M. said she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room.
JMO

and as you say, not contradictory.

I did not say that.

Skinny, slim, lean taller than 5'10
Athletically built but not muscular taller than 5'10

Two totally different body types IMO.
JMO

Imo nothing is changed and there isn't anything wrong or misleading about the more formalised language adopted to convey DM's description of the stranger she witnessed.

Adopted language = changed her words.
Using her words would be conveying her description.
JMO

RSBM

Think of someone who runs quite a bit or a medium to long distance runner. Probably built like that.

Ironic.

JMO

Yes. That BP chose those words to replace skinny, slim, and lean.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

No, but it would likely be a wash. She was his upper face, to include his eyes and eyebrows. Any good defense attorney would destroy an identification like that.

She saw exactly what she should have seen, and should not have been able to confidently identify him. She was traumatized, and apparently under the influence of alcohol. They were lucky she even remembered the bushy eyebrows part.

Her testimony is valuable in regards to timing, and painting a bit of a picture as to the events that night. Her description doesn't matter much.

The Judge asked AJ exactly what including DMs testimony was for:
ID and timing.
So it matters to the P.
JMO