4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

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  • #1,141
So you believe BP changed what DM said in her interview when he was writing the PCA?
Initially. After reading the following posts and yours IDK why there are multiple descriptors.
There are two descriptions. IMO
One we see in the PCA and the description AJ stated in court (which included different/more descriptors and seemed complete except the brows part was not mentioned). IMO
The P says DM was consistent throughout.
The D didn't directly address it.
BP is the affiant of the PCA exhibit.
The Judge had questions about DMs statements in the PCA exhibit. Including why they were important for the magistrate. AJ said ID and timing.
IMO when I read (PCA) vs. hear (AJ), I get a different body type image and height image. Others feel different.
JMO
First, BP had DM's interview in hand when he wrote the PCA. He would have had her statements before him. AJ did not. Who is more likely to be accurate about what DM actually said.
This is a great point. TY.
And DM could have used all of the descriptors at different times along the investigation.
IMO AJ would know what DM said.
The hearing was about what was included in the PCA.
The Judge has the interviews, PCA, brief and the response.
JMO
During the hearing, around 2:00:00, AJ addressed the defense's contention that omitting portions of DM's interview in the PCA supported their motion for a Franks, that omitting these portions of the interview would have changed the magistrate's mind when issuing the warrant. She told the judge, "I can tell you generally she consistently gave the same set of facts."
200:16 AJ says the D has two ? of attacks. First DM told LE, when shown a picture, didn't recognize the defendant (did AT bring this up in the hearing? I don't recall it being brought up by AT and couldn't find it).

The Judge then questions the relevance of DMs statements that were included in the affidavit as to PC. AJ replies I cited those in my response. He responds what were they. AJ says I can tell you generally, consistently she gave the same set of facts. Judge: I understand the things she said. Why was it important the magistrate know those things. ID or timeline. AJ Both.

Judge (201.31) So it is part ID as well?

Then the description portion of the hearing.

JMO
The judge then asked her why it was important to the PCA to include the portions of the interview that they did. AJ was really flustered by this, and was struggling to answer. The judge had to help her out and asked her--was it going to the ID of the perpetrator, was it helping to establish a timeline?

She said yes, the description DM provided helped to establish that someone who looked like she described was in the residence at the time the crimes were occurring. She said the general description was consistent throughout all her interviews. She did not have DM's interview in front of her so that she could read what DM had actually said. She told the judge, "She describes seeing someone wearing all black, a mask with only a portion of their face showing and visible. This person was male, white, she heard a voice that was not something that she recognized. The person was a slim, skinny, lean build, and the person was about, was taller than she was, is, around 5'8"...That general description did not change."

Second, the greatest evidence that BP did not change the description given by DM when he wrote the PCA is the fact that AT never mentions it.
She never says once in anything I watched (please correct me if I'm wrong and link to the time) that BP changed the description.


Does anyone here think she wouldn't bring that in if it were true?
No, AT doesn't mention it as a changed description.
104:55 She says: Person that was interviewed said that she heard things and saw things in her house. But what is written in the PCA is seriously lacking in detail, it's wrong, and it's false in many places.
Then she goes into credibility.
Then moves on to the car.
We have not seen the brief nor the response to the brief.
JMO
She started addressing DM's statements at about 1:05:00. Her entire focus was on her contention that the PCA omitted statements by DM and that inclusion of these statements would have changed the magistrate's decision. She said that DM was sure she heard one of the victims in particular run up the stairs and then down the stairs. DM repeated this multiple times across multiple interviews. The defense contends that not including that in the PCA was an omission that could have changed the magistrate's mind because it went to the credibility of the witness. Because it wasn't possible that the victim DM named could have done that. AT also says that DM's statements about it feeling like a dream and being intoxicated should not have been omitted. Not once does she have an issue with the description given by DM being different than the one written by BP in the PCA. If it was different, she would have.
After AJ gave her argument and used the description quoted above, AT had a chance to rebut, and again, did not take issue with the description. Did not mention it. What would be a more relevant argument for a Franks--that they did not include portions of DM's interview that were not material to pointing at the defendant, or that they actually changed what DM said he looked like to fit the what BK looks like? If they had done that, AT would have argued it.
The part about a roommate running up and down the stairs is kind of interesting though. I think this is the first we've heard that.
It is the first we heard it.
And some of the description from AJ.
And new information relating to the CAST.
And about unknown male blood.
JMO
What if DM thought it was KG or MM but it was really XK? What if XK, still awake, heard something and ran upstairs to see what was going on, saw BK and ran back down, telling EC, "There's someone here." And maybe he then had to run after her before she could call 911, leaving the sheath behind.
JMO
Possible.
She heard it. It could be anyone. Why did she think it was KG/MM?
The D didn't think it was possible.
Did the P directly address the stairs in the hearing?

JMO
 
  • #1,142
Initially. After reading the following posts and yours IDK why there are multiple descriptors.
There are two descriptions. IMO
One we see in the PCA and the description AJ stated in court (which included different/more descriptors and seemed complete except the brows part was not mentioned). IMO
The P says DM was consistent throughout.
The D didn't directly address it.
BP is the affiant of the PCA exhibit.
The Judge had questions about DMs statements in the PCA exhibit. Including why they were important for the magistrate. AJ said ID and timing.
IMO when I read (PCA) vs. hear (AJ), I get a different body type image and height image. Others feel different.
JMO

This is a great point. TY.
And DM could have used all of the descriptors at different times along the investigation.
IMO AJ would know what DM said.
The hearing was about what was included in the PCA.
The Judge has the interviews, PCA, brief and the response.
JMO

200:16 AJ says the D has two ? of attacks. First DM told LE, when shown a picture, didn't recognize the defendant (did AT bring this up in the hearing? I don't recall it being brought up by AT and couldn't find it).

The Judge then questions the relevance of DMs statements that were included in the affidavit as to PC. AJ replies I cited those in my response. He responds what were they. AJ says I can tell you generally, consistently she gave the same set of facts. Judge: I understand the things she said. Why was it important the magistrate know those things. ID or timeline. AJ Both.

Judge (201.31) So it is part ID as well?

Then the description portion of the hearing.

JMO

No, AT doesn't mention it as a changed description.
104:55 She says: Person that was interviewed said that she heard things and saw things in her house. But what is written in the PCA is seriously lacking in detail, it's wrong, and it's false in many places.
Then she goes into credibility.
Then moves on to the car.
We have not seen the brief nor the response to the brief.
JMO

It is the first we heard it.
And some of the description from AJ.
And new information relating to the CAST.
And about unknown male blood.
JMO

Possible.
She heard it. It could be anyone. Why did she think it was KG/MM?
The D didn't think it was possible.
Did the P directly address the stairs in the hearing?

JMO

I wonder if its because she also heard the dog barking, and she had thought she heard them playing with him?
 
  • #1,143
Evidence did lead them to the suspect.

Even assuming the defence is correct that it was IGG that lead them to realise they had the year wrong, so what? That kind of thing happens all the time. IMO.
It’s the literal definition of an investigation. You chase down leads. Some don’t work out. You have suspects. Some don’t pan out. You find new suspects that might better fit the evidence. The same evidence also excludes people.

Sometimes you even go back and take a fresh look at the evidence to see if you missed anything.

This belief that LE only gets one shot is kind of odd.
 
  • #1,144
I wonder if it’s because she also heard the dog barking, and she had thought she heard them playing with him?
imagine waking up only to realize that the sounds you heard the night before WERE of your friends being murdered.

DMs testimony establishes a window of time when the murders happened. Her description is consistent enough. IMO

And anyone who’s still buying any characterization that AT makes about any evidence the public is not privy to … I have a bridge. We’ve been promised bombshell revelation after bombshell revelation and yet here we are. MOO

Lastly, the judge’s line of questioning wasn’t him hinting at holes in the prosecutor’s case. It was simply to get a on the record response to defense claims because we all know where this is going. Appeals court. At one point you can practically hear him beg prosecutors to entertain the nonsense.

I place no stock in any of it.

MOO
 
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  • #1,145
It’s the literal definition of an investigation. You chase down leads. Some don’t work out. You have suspects. Some don’t pan out. You find new suspects that might better fit the evidence. The same evidence also excludes people.

Sometimes you even go back and take a fresh look at the evidence to see if you missed anything.

This belief that LE only gets one shot is kind of odd.

Exactly.

It's not as if the insight meant the previous expert evidence was invalidated. He still IDed the make of the car.

But in any event it does happen that a piece of evidence that was thought to be significant might prove to be worthless.

Also fine.
 
  • #1,146
BFs characterization of the body she saw has more to do with what a figure was or was NOT wearing outside of her from the reporting I remember reading in the DailyMail (I’ll find it). Which aligned with things that were said/spread early on.

Link? I don't remember ever hearing any type of statement from BF?

Thanks
 
  • #1,147
They just have to have been aware something was up, in general. Even if they didn't see him while he was up late at night doing this, it has to have carried over in terms of his behavior at other times during his stay. This is something you do if you know law enforcement is on to you (I think it's entirely possible he knew he was being surveilled). That had to have been incredibly stressful.

So behavioral changes, and overt signs that he was trying to contain his DNA (maybe wearing latex gloves in odd situations, and showing concern for the trash).

They may not have put the pieces together at the time though.

All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.
 
  • #1,148
If I’m ever a POI for a crime, my search history is going to raise some eyebrows after following a few cases & doing research of my own including avoiding detection, legal procedures, etc.

I know finding out the lengths more modern killers go to, it raises my eyebrows. No, mine aren’t bushy & I do eat meat!


All MOO

Hopefully everyone reads your post and then ask yourself if you think someone studying Criminal Justice may have the same problem you say that you would have.

Just a thought.
 
  • #1,149
This is a great point Mass.

Plenty of leads and theories go nowhere. Why do we even think the killer's blood would be at the crime scene?
The only reasons I can think of is if a different style knife was used, one with out any hilt and if the killer wasn't wearing gloves. Since neither of those seem to be likely in these murders, the killer not leaving blood is not unusual.

How able the victims were to fight back is another option on injuring the killer to make them bleed. We really only know a bit about KG's horrific injuries right now and it sounded like she was greatly overcome physically by her killer.

AJMO
 
  • #1,150
  • #1,151
Appreciate your take here as always, but jmo BK has given his family grief and heartache from early on. They knew he was different and had issues. He had no close friends, he became addicted to heroin, stole his sister's phone, he was expelled from a course in HS because of a serious issue with a female student and finished up online. I'd bet much more than we know of yet.

His poor Dad is out trying to drum up friendships when he arrives at WSU. The family are victims too. I wonder if he ever became physically or mentally abusive to any of them? :(

JMO

Stealing his sister's phone with all her personal information in it is abusive in my book. Then telling his dad not to do anything stupid sounds like a threat.

2 Cents
 
  • #1,152
Link? I don't remember ever hearing any type of statement from BF?

Thanks

I don't want to speak for the OP, but I believe this was just an accidental mixup of the surviving roommates initials. JMO

All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

That would seem a much more reasonable explanation if everyone in the house was doing it, but it seems that this particular behaviour was isolated to just BK.
 
  • #1,153
Snipped for focus

There would be evidence of when IF the fbi would have saved their IGG work (like they are supposed to) and produced it in discovery. The agents who did this work know the date. The commuinications they had will show the date. Or do they all "not recall" the date of the most important turning point in their investigation?

Instead: No names on who did the work.
No date on when it was done.
No description of what was done.
Nye said in his argument: they didn't do anything wrong.
How does he know? Does he have more information?
Does he have information that the D doesn't have?

When did LE discover the Ridge Road image?

The first lab's invoice was dated Nov 29th.

JMO
edit to add snipped for focus
The whole IGG arguement by the defense is not backed by any court decisions. Trying to say analyzing and investigating crime scene DNA violates constitutional rights because there was no warrant for the analyzing or investigation is ludicrous, IMO. I'm sure the appropriate information on how it was done is in the discovery. A profile was made and submitted. It's not the complicated subject the defense is trying to make it. I understand why they are, they've got no way else to attack it but I can't even say, nice try. AJMO
 
  • #1,154
Agreed !
Anyway, why can't he just be served what the rest of the jail is served ?

Eta : Some people have an allergy where the food needs to be prepared with care lest the inmate fall ill.
IF BK doesn't have anything he's allergic to, he shouldn't be getting special treatment.
Omo.
Imo.


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  • #1,155
She will testify but the D can and will tear her testimony apart. They however need a delicate balance and not look like they're going too hard.
How will they tear her testimony apart? She heard what she heard, saw what she saw. Reliving something like that, I would think, will be extremely difficult. To be so thankful and mostly likely also have terrible survivor's guilt, I can't begin to imagine that young woman's mindset. Whatever she heard and saw are very subjective, it's her personal reality. I don't think attacking that will serve the defense at all. MO
 
  • #1,156
She will testify but the D can and will tear her testimony apart. They however need a delicate balance and not look like they're going too hard.

It is all written in the police report. All she has to say is she was terrified and will never forget what she saw. She can read the report and testify that this is exactly what she saw. What will the defense do? Call her a liar? Her description matches BK and she did not even know him.

2 Cents
 
  • #1,157
There are so many questions. Many believe he was stalking the house, therefore he'd know who lived there and that he'd left two of them unharmed.

I think the only struggle was with X based on early rumblings of defensive wounds on her.
I think DM said she first heard what she thought was KG playing with her dog. That could have been some struggling upstairs. I think MM & KG may have been the only two victims that night if XK hadn't of gotten that door dash delivery. I think when the killer came back downstairs XK saw him and that when she and EC were attacked. With the Elantra video, DM's testimony, the Door Dash delivery, the audio from the neighbor's camera and the departure of the Elantra, the Prosecution will have a good timeline laid out. JMO
 
  • #1,158
All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

BK was being observed by LE from Pennsylvania. If bagging up the trash the way BK was doing it was routine in that part of PA, I’m sure they would have passed it on to Idaho officers.
 
  • #1,159
All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

Not true. Bears can smell food thru plastic, containers, even in a trunk of a car. That is why, in bear country, you never sleep with your food. Best to pack in dehydrated food.
 
  • #1,160
Not true. Bears can smell food thru plastic, containers, even in a trunk of a car. That is why, in bear country, you never sleep with your food. Best to pack in dehydrated food.
Absolutely. In the TN mountains, you have to run your garbage to a secured/gated dumpster. You can't leave it on your porch or at the end of your driveway. I knew someone that put their household garbage in sealed plastic bags on their screened in porch, and a bear tore the screen down to get to it. Garbage strung out everywhere....

They definitely can smell through the plastic.
 
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