4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

I assure you, it is not common to separate your trash from that of your family, and place it in ziplock bags in the middle of the night while wearing latex gloves, all to avoid bear attacks.

This was a house in Pennsylvania, not some tent in the middle of the woods (other posters are saying that wouldn’t do anything anyway).

If the defense goes with that, I’m sure the jury would have a good laugh. It’s consciousness of guilt all the way, and horrible optics for him.

 

[al66pine]

... or does it seem that the defendant in this case BK has either manicured, plucked, preened, or coifed the eyebrows? ....

snipped for focus @I am not Sherlock H.
Possibly one or all of the above.
Or laminated the brows, Ada County lock up fashion? (No snark)
.
.
.
ICYMI, brow lamination is a Thing. For men too.

 

[Megnut]

And why was BK so paranoid about his DNA?

He knew the sheath had the potential to incriminate him. Bet he couldn't stop replaying in his head every action with that sheath.

There's something magical about premeditation. All that planning and preparing to avoid detection hits a flashpoint and becomes a neon sign incriminating the planner/preparer.

A blazing trail before and after the crime...

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

And why was BK so paranoid about his DNA?

He knew the sheath had the potential to incriminate him. Bet he couldn't stop replaying in his head every action with that sheath.

There's something magical about premeditation. All that planning and preparing to avoid detection hits a flashpoint and becomes a neon sign incriminating the planner/preparer.

A blazing trail before and after the crime...

JMO

What scares me is that had he left his phone home and never left the sheath at the crime scene, he may have gotten away with it.

I believe he was sorting trash and wearing gloves and using neighbor's trash because he realized he had left the sheath but did not know if his DNA profile was on it for sure.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

It is called evidence/discovery for court whether used or not used. Both lawyers and judges can decide to use certain evidence/discovery.

View attachment 560883This single-volume hornbook geared towards the law student is a pared-down version of the authoritative McCormick on Evidence, right. Topics covered include preparing and presenting evidence, cross-examination, and the procedure for admitting and excluding evidence. Discusses privilege against self-incrimination, privilege concerning improperly obtained evidence, scientific evidence, and demonstrative evidence. Reviews authentication, the hearsay rule, burdens of proof, and presumptions.

Evidence refers to the information, facts, or data presented to support or refute a claim, hypothesis, or argument. It can take various forms, such as written documents, statistical data, physical objects, or eyewitness testimonies, depending on the context.

2 Cents

Forgot link

McCormick's Evidence, 7th (Hornbook Series) 7th edition | 9780314290250, 9781628106374 | VitalSource

McCormick's Evidence, 7th (Hornbook Series) 7th Edition is written by Broun, Kenneth; Dix, George; Imwinkelried, Edward; Kaye, David; Mosteller, Robert; Roberts, E F; Swi and published by West Academic Publishing. The Digital and eTextbook ISBNs for McCormick's Evidence, 7th (Hornbook Series)...

www.vitalsource.com

 

[Arkay]

If I’m ever a POI for a crime, my search history is going to raise some eyebrows after following a few cases & doing research of my own including avoiding detection, legal procedures, etc.

I know finding out the lengths more modern killers go to, it raises my eyebrows. No, mine aren’t bushy & I do eat meat!

All MOO

Hopefully everyone reads your post and then ask yourself if you think someone studying Criminal Justice may have the same problem you say that you would have.

Just a thought.

I would say in defense of all of us, clearly we are interested in true crime or we wouldn’t be on Websleuths.

That presupposes that many of us have searched for details about cases that interest us.

Yet, I know my DNA isn’t at a crime scene. Neither is my car, nor would anyone have anything approaching a description of me.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say the same would be true for @INfisherman and the rest of us. (Hopefully)!

JMO

 

[Megnut]

What scares me is that had he left his phone home and never left the sheath at the crime scene, he may have gotten away with it.

I believe he was sorting trash and wearing gloves and using neighbor's trash because he realized he had left the sheath but did not know if his DNA profile was on it for sure.

2 Cents

At what point, I wonder, did he realize he didn't have the sheath? Possibly at the point that he heard a voice from below and abandoned the third floor in order to silence the second. Surely by the time he got to his car. Raises the question as to whether he considered going back into the house to get it.

IMO he didn't see DM immediately, his brain processor a step behind. Realizing too late he'd been seen, I think he accelerated his retreat, expecting a rapid 911 response. Explains his circuitous route home too. Dodging a tail.

Just curious as to how he prevented the unsheathed knife from dripping blood or causing injury to himself, not like he could slip it into a pocket, I'd think.

Is it possible he had two knives, slid the Kbar into the second sheath?

And where did he dispose of it? Someone else's trashcan? River?

Tidy investigation if LE can answer that.

JMO

 

[jepop]

I wonder if its because she also heard the dog barking, and she had thought she heard them playing with him?

That's an interesting thought @Rolypolyoly. In terms of timeline, I think dog barking commences at about the same time as Perp is thought to be leaving, maybe around 4.17am. And imo a dog starting up could be one of the reasons for his rapid exit (fear authorities may be called).

If, as you say, DM may have thought it was one of the upstairs victims on stairs because associations with dog barking, then is it possible the person she actually heard was BK?

Roughly theorising;

at c 4.17am dog is barking, DM sees the masked stranger pass her door and head towards slider. She closes and locks her door. BK exits at slider but then at that moment, or just after exiting to back porch, realises no knife sheathe. He goes back in and runs up stairs, but is too put off by fear of possible 911 responders on way to look further when he doesn't see sheathe on the floor. He runs back down stairs, runs to his car and leaves. Elantra captured by street cam speeding away at c4.20am. All just theorising.

As an aside, I'm not sure that the dog barking captured by audio from no. 1222 ( the house immediately to the nw, with audio device located around 50 yards IIRC from the corner of Xana's room) necessarily came from Murphy. I don,'t think it's specified and moo it's possible there was a dog living at that neighbour's house 1222. Not sure, if that is the case, whether it would alter the feasibility of this theory.

Jmo we will probably hear at trial when that audio capture is evidenced, whether the dog is thought to be Murphy or another dog living nearby. DM herself may testify on that and/or possibly the person who analysed the audio. Jmo

 

[INfisherman]

All MOO

Hopefully everyone reads your post and then ask yourself if you think someone studying Criminal Justice may have the same problem you say that you would have.

Just a thought.

I am of the opinion the person to whom you’re referring has much greater legal problems than I do or ever will have, whether everyone reads my post or not.

 

[Megnut]

As LE has cobbled together the timeline of events that night, I wonder if they've been able to explain BK's loops. What stopped him from entering the house earlier? Could LE pair those times with activity near and/or within the house? Seems like he may have intended to enter closer to 3am... what stopped him?

And what made this night his attack night? He turned his phone off (per new revelation during the prehearing the other day), a strong indication he was planning to commit a crime.

I find it artful that the Defense referred to BK's ali-barely (barely an alibi) as "early morning", which of course -- in the context of a run -- wouldn't be all that preposterous at 4 or 5 am, but he was on the prowl in his car at 2, 3, 4 am....

And -- hate when THIS happens -- I'm out in an unnamed area running and stargazing -- and the planets align or a supernova explodes or a comet sears across my path and SHOOT, if I didn't turn my phone off and leave it in my car. Now how'm'I going to show my all my friend (or the Court) the most amazing thing I saw (through the fog) while running at 3 am without my phone in a place I don't even wish to pinpoint?

And another thing, if BK was just driving around aimlessly that night, maybe looping Moscow but never stopping (long enough to murder four people), how come the looping suddenly stopped? And the regular drives to Moscow? Why not 14, 15, 16...

Patterns, patterns, patterns, how glaring they become when there's a break in them.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

I find it artful that the Defense referred to BK's ali-barely (barely an alibi) as "early morning", which of course -- in the context of a run -- wouldn't be all that preposterous at 4 or 5 am, but he was on the prowl in his car at 2, 3, 4 am....

And -- hate when THIS happens -- I'm out in an unnamed area running and stargazing -- and the planets align or a supernova explodes or a comet sears across my path and SHOOT, if I didn't turn my phone off and leave it in my car. Now how'm'I going to show my all my friend (or the Court) the most amazing thing I saw (through the fog) while running at 3 am without my phone in a place I don't even wish to pinpoint?

Yeah, bummer, right? All this cosmic glory and nothing to show for it.

Nothing but his DNA on a murder weapon beneath a murder victim. What a blunder. Wonder how THAT happened?

I like ali-barely but I may go with badlibi for ease of use.

JMO

ETA: in response to @CKS let me rephrase—-DNA found on the paraphernalia associated with a murder weapon. Hope I’ve clarified.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

At what point, I wonder, did he realize he didn't have the sheath? Possibly at the point that he heard a voice from below and abandoned the third floor in order to silence the second. Surely by the time he got to his car. Raises the question as to whether he considered going back into the house to get it.

IMO he didn't see DM immediately, his brain processor a step behind. Realizing too late he'd been seen, I think he accelerated his retreat, expecting a rapid 911 response. Explains his circuitous route home too. Dodging a tail.

Just curious as to how he prevented the unsheathed knife from dripping blood or causing injury to himself, not like he could slip it into a pocket, I'd think.

Is it possible he had two knives, slid the Kbar into the second sheath?

And where did he dispose of it? Someone else's trashcan? River?

Tidy investigation if LE can answer that.

JMO

I'm another one in the coverall camp, and I would guess he simply wiped the knife on the leg of his coverall, with the intention to remove and dispose of it as soon as he stepped out of the house.

 

[CKS]

Yeah, bummer, right? All this cosmic glory and nothing to show for it.

Nothing but his DNA on a murder weapon beneath a murder victim. What a blunder. Wonder how THAT happened?

I like ali-barely but I may go with badlibi for ease of use.

JMO

All MOO

The sheath is not a murder weapon. We also assume a kbar was used but we do not know for sure.

We also do not know who the sheath actually belonged to. For all we know it may have been one of the roommates.

This is the type of reasonable doubt which will and should be used by the defense.

I realize some of you have already made up your mind that BK is guilty but we still have a long way to go and the prosecution better have a lot more on BK otherwise I'm afraid he'll get off.

All MOO

 

[wendy44]

This is absolutely true. There's a world of difference when you look at a bodybuilder or football player versus a long-distance runner, sprinter, or swimmer. You move into a middle ground with basketball and tennis (jmo, and it's going to vary from athlete to athlete), where many muscles are utilized in performance, and that strength is coupled with agility. There's a difference between toned muscle and bulging/prominent muscle. There are many "skinny" long-distance runners, probably better characterized as lean and/or toned.

When the D has to move into territory like this, they're in trouble, again jmo. Can't agree more, it genuinely is ludicrous. There's no way I think he won't be convicted, he'll receive the DP, and I hope the D begins to posture itself to try and if at all possible-- avoid the DP. If they attempted a plea bargain, and it were to be rejected, and he were given the DP, I'm wondering if a cruel and unusual punishment argument wouldn't be more feasible for them (I have no idea, but I am guessing this might be a possibility). Unfortunately, right now with this type of petty straw-grasping continuing, I don't think they're even considering it.

Bolded by me--the thing is, the defense hasn't. They haven't challenged the physical description given by DM vs the physical description in the PCA vs BK's physical description. They may during trial just to pick away and produce reasonable doubt, but they took no issue with AJ's use of "skinny".
JMO

 

[Megnut]

Surely he had more than one murder weapon. Back up. In case things go awry, right?

I'm trying to understand a thought process where he thinks one knife in one hand and the sheath in the other is a solid game plan.

Why wasn't that sheath secured?

Possible explanations:

1. It was. But it came loose.
2. It was a calling card he intended to leave behind. I wonder of its placement lends itself to one theory or another. Does it look somehow like it was lost in the slaughter or left with purpose?
3. Killer was overconfident. Lost control of the situation and his sheath.

Assuming he left it there accidentally, what was his plan for not leaving it behind?

If he left it purposefully, hoping to become the feared Marine Murderer or somesuch, was it left where it was as part of a one-two, practiced ninja maneuver? Slip the knife from the sheath, slide it under the body, stab/slice the victim, all part of one vicious move?

Except for the missed DNA, this would have been a very different crime IMO if KG (and Murphy) hadn't been there and XK hadn't been awake, two (three) things I think BK missed in his reconnaissance.

Without them, DM would not have been alerted. There'd be no eye witness, no independent time stamping, no vehicle speeding away. And possibly no sheath accidentally left behind.

One victim, murdered in bed, with militaryesque precision.

Who knows what would follow. BK moves to another community with a sister city and another coed falls to the knife. Serial killer takes form....

Instead BK fails at his first attempt. Sloppy massacre, mass murderer because he lost control of his own narrative. A reactive mess, leaving a trail of victims because he hadn't factored for the unforeseen.

Just one more thing BK bottoms out of.

JMO

 

[CKS]

All MOO

Why do you think LE didn't include any statements from one of the witnesses' in the PCA? Why wouldn't they add any of BF's statements and only DM?

If you remember AT has stated that BF has exculpatory evidence in BK's favor.

 

[CKS]

Surely he had more than one murder weapon. Back up. In case things go awry, right?

I'm trying to understand a thought process where he thinks one knife in one hand and the sheath in the other is a solid game plan.

Why wasn't that sheath secured?

Possible explanations:

1. It was. But it came loose.
2. It was a calling card he intended to leave behind. I wonder of its placement lends itself to one theory or another. Does it look somehow like it was lost in the slaughter or left with purpose?
3. Killer was overconfident. Lost control of the situation and his sheath.

Assuming he left it there accidentally, what was his plan for not leaving it behind?

If he left it purposefully, hoping to become the feared Marine Murderer or somesuch, was it left where it was as part of a one-two, practiced ninja maneuver? Slip the knife from the sheath, slide it under the body, stab/slice the victim, all part of one vicious move?

Except for the missed DNA, this would have been a very different crime IMO if KG (and Murphy) hadn't been there and XK hadn't been awake, two (three) things I think BK missed in his reconnaissance.

Without them, DM would not have been alerted. There'd be no eye witness, no independent time stamping, no vehicle speeding away. And possibly no sheath accidentally left behind.

One victim, murdered in bed, with militaryesque precision.

Who knows what would follow. BK moves to another community with a sister city and another coed falls to the knife. Serial killer takes form....

Instead BK fails at his first attempt. Sloppy massacre, mass murderer because he lost control of his own narrative. A reactive mess, leaving a trail of victims because he hadn't factored for the unforeseen.

Just one more thing BK bottoms out of.

JMO

MOO

The other scenario is it's not his sheath and one of the roommates.

 

[mmeynstyn]

As LE has cobbled together the timeline of events that night, I wonder if they've been able to explain BK's loops. What stopped him from entering the house earlier? Could LE pair those times with activity near and/or within the house? Seems like he may have intended to enter closer to 3am... what stopped him?

And what made this night his attack night? He turned his phone off (per new revelation during the prehearing the other day), a strong indication he was planning to commit a crime.

I find it artful that the Defense referred to BK's ali-barely (barely an alibi) as "early morning", which of course -- in the context of a run -- wouldn't be all that preposterous at 4 or 5 am, but he was on the prowl in his car at 2, 3, 4 am....

And -- hate when THIS happens -- I'm out in an unnamed area running and stargazing -- and the planets align or a supernova explodes or a comet sears across my path and SHOOT, if I didn't turn my phone off and leave it in my car. Now how'm'I going to show my all my friend (or the Court) the most amazing thing I saw (through the fog) while running at 3 am without my phone in a place I don't even wish to pinpoint?

And another thing, if BK was just driving around aimlessly that night, maybe looping Moscow but never stopping (long enough to murder four people), how come the looping suddenly stopped? And the regular drives to Moscow? Why not 14, 15, 16...

Patterns, patterns, patterns, how glaring they become when there's a break in them.

JMO

I have found myself thinking about that too. I recall really early on, there was a lot of chatter about the DD delivery. The DD driver was interviewed and cleared early on - that is a fact.

BK applied for an intern position with local law enforcement. “Kohberger wrote in his essay he had interest in assisting rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations,” the affidavit states. <bolded by me for emphasis> Bryan Kohberger applied for police internship around time of Idaho murders

I've always been curious about this and how it may or may not relate to the DD order and delivery. Did he know there was an order placed? and was the circling his way of waiting for the delivery to take place so there was someone else to suspect? JMcurious mind - no evidence of truth. However, rewatching the video of the white sedan circling (4 times total), JMO, he must have seen the delivery, or at the least the DD car leaving the scene and seized on the opportunity.

Also, about the circling, we know through police body cam videos there was police activity in this area that night/morning. Maybe he was keeping an eye on that too. MOO.

 

[MassGuy]

All MOO

Why do you think LE didn't include any statements from one of the witnesses' in the PCA? Why wouldn't they add any of BF's statements and only DM?

If you remember AT has stated that BF has exculpatory evidence in BK's favor.

Because BF didn't see Kohberger. And yes, that's a standard defense claim. It could be as simple as BF saying that DM was drinking that night, which we know.

 

[mmeynstyn]

All MOO

Why do you think LE didn't include any statements from one of the witnesses' in the PCA? Why wouldn't they add any of BF's statements and only DM?

If you remember AT has stated that BF has exculpatory evidence in BK's favor.

I ask: why would they? They only needed sufficient evidence to show probable cause. They obviously don't want to skimp because they don't want it to be rejected. But, if they have information they are still following up on and it is not adding more to probably cause; they why would they?

It is nothing secret or suspicious that some information was not necessary for probable cause.