4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98

[MassGuy]

All MOO

Hopefully the defense doesn't cite the following study...

"Our DNA can easily be transferred from item to item or from one location to another, even if we never touched the item ourselves or were never at the scene of the crime. One study showed that after two people shook hands and then each handled a separate knife, in 85% of cases, the DNA of the other person was transferred to the knife and profiled. In one-fifth of the samples, the DNA analysis identified this other person as the main or only contributor of DNA to the weapon."

Forensic Genetic Genealogy Searches: What Defense Attorneys & Policy Makers Need to Know

I’ve cited studies similar to this in several cases now. It can even go further than that. We can shake hands, I can touch an object, and potentially, the only DNA on that object belongs to someone you previously touched.

We have no such concerns here; none at all.

Kohberger had no connection to that house, or any victims in that house.

That DNA wasn’t merely found on the sheath, but on the snap itself (something the killer had to touch).

The defense can try to come up with an insane scenario to explain that DNA away, but the supporting evidence solidifies that the DNA was there because he was the killer.

 

[CKS]

FWIW Mirphy may have absolutely in fact been in a room with an open door. Inside a crate.

Making the first statement technically true but a giant sin of omission.

AT may have provided the first stayement for public consumption. Think about it. She hadn't even met the burden for a Frank's hearing, and IMO still hasn't. Yet she verily begged the judge to livestream the hearing, under the auspice of BK having a right somehow to counter public perception.

Look at all the new details she rolled out, conveniently outside the gag order.

The State isn't playing ball. Isn't trying their case in the court of public opinion nor in the intermediate hearing-court. They're waiting for trial. Where experts have been vetted, where evidence is deemed admissible, where witnesses are questioned under oath on cross and direct.

I have full confidence that, at trial, we will learn why Murphy didn't venture out that doo, we'll learn why two samples of male blood DNA weren't run through CODIS (or turned over to IGG) and my guess -- degraded, irrelevant (due to location) -- what path BK took in exiting the house and even whose blood was memorialized in that footprint.

For the purposes of a warrant, LE didn't need to emphasize every footprint left by the individual who stepped in blood. The significant one is the one outside DM's door, because it corroborates her recollection.

It's probably the case that the killer left bloody footprints down the hall, each getting less visible until invisible to the naked eye. It's not logical to assume LE found one and only one latent footprint. Or that it came from the direction of the survivor's own bedroom. LE simply highlighted the most relevant print, in a line of them.

It might be the case that LE doesn't have cinema-quality footage of the Elantra. That's not a fault of the investigation. Nor is it a basis for exculpation. It just means there are limits to quality. LE will buttress those images with timing, including the terminal ends which occur, start to finish, at the parking lot where BK lived. They apparently have daytime footage of BK at the store the following day, pairing him, his phone and his car, so the jury isn't left to speculate blindly. Solid inferences can be drawn.

It'll be the jury who decides what evidence is important and won't waste their time trying to invent doubt piece by piece. But will instead -- as instructed by the Court -- look at the totality of the evidence they value, hold it up against reasonable doubt, and render a verdict accordingly.

If BK bought a Kbar knife from Amazon, he'll save the jury about three days of deliberation.

BK left no room for the murderer to be anyone but himself.

JMO

All MOO

If the footage was good we'd know for sure the car. The fact that the video they have is so bad or should I say questionable that a FBI EXPERT might have gotten the wrong year should tell you they don't have solid video of his car in my opinion.

If BK bought the knife or any knife on Amazon for that matter this would have been over long ago in my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't bet on him ever buying a kbar from Amazon.

I also still think all the Amazon talk may be in regards to the Amazon fire stick LE found in BK's apartment.


Just my opinion.

 

[MassGuy]

All MOO

If the footage was good we'd know for sure the car. The fact that the video they have is so bad or should I say questionable that a FBI EXPERT might have gotten the wrong year should tell you they don't have solid video of his car in my opinion.

If BK bought the knife or any knife on Amazon for that matter this would have been over long ago in my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't bet on him ever buying a kbar from Amazon.

I also still think all the Amazon talk may be in regards to the Amazon fire stick LE found in BK's apartment.


Just my opinion.

We’ve heard nothing regards to the fire stick, but we do know for a fact they were looking at his Amazon purchase records, and click history.

Among the Amazon click history that investigators sought was information concerning knives, the search warrant shows. Police say they believe Bryan Kohberger, 28, the suspect charged in the Moscow, Idaho, killings on Nov. 13, 2022, used a knife to commit the murders. Although a knife sheath was found near the body of one of the victims, authorities say the murder weapon has not been found.

In a series of search warrant documents posted late Tuesday to the court docket, though they are dated Sept. 8, authorities requested purchase history and payment method details for an Amazon customer whose identity has been redacted.

The warrant also included a request for "all detailed customer click activity pertaining to knives and accessories," as well as a long list of information that could flesh out the customer's full shopping movements and interests on the site, including items saved to the cart, suggestions for future purchases and items reviewed by that customer.

Idaho authorities probe Amazon 'click activity' for knives possibly connected to college killings

The murder weapon in the quadruple killings has not been found.

abcnews.go.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The judge apparently is going to release a redacted transcript of the closed hearing last week. That should be interesting.

Bryan Kohberger case: Idaho judge to unseal transcript of closed-door hearing

A transcript from Bryan Kohberger's closed-door hearing on investigative genetic genealogy evidence held last week will be made public, in part, judge says.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Megnut]

@MassGuy
At approximately 16.50, they talk about the no knock warrant.

Then there's discussion (from the Law&Crime folks) of caselaw whereby, even if a no knock warrant is challenged, the remedy isn't throwing out evidence (spoiled fruit); it's a civil rights issue, if anything. No knock is not a violation of the 4th amendment, per the L&C expert lawyer.

Solid argument.

JMO

 

[Karin1974]

LE says the Elantra circled three times before landing behind 1122. It'd like to hear how AT would classify those loops. "Not near", "Not stopping"...

Just what exactly was BK doing driving in circles in Moscow at 2 - 3 - 4am then? Taking in the stars? Optimal, through general fog and light pollution.

Perhaps that night wasn't his first loop.

JMO

Thanks Megnut, you crawled inside my brain & directly asked exactly what I was wanting to know. Is AT out of her mind, exactly what she is saying didn’t happen, did happen & she knows it if she’s actually looked at this evidence. MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

All MOO

One theory I've heard is that in part of the world people put their trash into baggies b/c of the bears. Who knows if it's true or not.

A baggie would do nothing. And people who live in bear country should know that.

Sometime, when you feel like watching something cute, you should look up the place where the bad bears go. Rather than shooting nuisance bears, they get sent to a place where they get to endurance test garbage bins forever. It's the perfect solution.

MOO

 

[Karin1974]

If BK’s alibi is taking pictures of the stars, then where are the pictures? Did they even take a camera from his house in the warrant, or would they be on his phone? Pictures are time stamped. It’s easy to supply an image of the stars at 3-5am IF they exist. Where are the pictures?

Obviously we don’t know the answers, I just wonder if there will be any proof of this alibi during the trial.

Moo.

IMO - I’m willing to bet there isn’t a single photo on his phone taken of the sky/stars/night in Moscow, not one, that alone should be easy enough to prove/disprove. MOO

 

[INfisherman]

A baggie would do nothing. And people who live in bear country should know that.

Sometime, when you feel like watching something cute, you should look up the place where the bad bears go. Rather than shooting nuisance bears, they get sent to a place where they get to endurance test garbage bins forever. It's the perfect solution.

MOO

Not only that but it wouldn’t just be the guy visiting from WA doing it - the rest of the residents & neighbors would likely be doing the same thing.

I’ve fished in bear country for decades & have seen a few wander into the cabin areas in which we stayed as well as along the lake shores. Plastic baggies do not deter bears - they can smell things much better & at farther distances than the best tracking dogs. When we were camping in tents in the wilderness along the Canadian border (dropped off by boat for 5 days) the outfitter suggested keeping all food in sealed containers or in lockable coolers & dry goods were to be kept in a canvas type bag tied off to a rope & hoisted over a limb at least 15ft (~4.5m) off the ground.

JMO

 

[Karin1974]

Which is exactly what we all thought about Casey Anthony and OJ Simpson. Just to name two "slam dunk" cases that came to me.

MOO - Those two cases will resonate with me forever. I simply don’t know how these two juries got the obvious SO completely wrong, I don’t think I’ll ever understand.

 

[Karin1974]

Runners are athletic but not muscular, imo.

BK an avid runner with their typical build, a vegan naturally a lower body mass, so BP is good at observations, imo.

[...]
"Mr. Kohberger was out driving in the early morning hours of November 13, 2022; as he often did to hike and run and/or see the moon and stars," the filing reads.

It also states that Kohberger was an avid runner and hiker, but adds that his hiking and running decreased during the school year, but "his nighttime drives increased."
[...]

How Strong Is Idaho Murders Suspect Bryan Kohberger's Alibi? Legal Expert Weighs In (Exclusive)

Bryan Kohberger — the man accused of killing four University of Idaho students — claims he was driving alone and was outside of Moscow on the night of the murders.

people.com

BK looks pretty thin, gaunt even, in the photos in this article.

all imo

IMO - As a runner, I couldn’t agree more, I’m definitely athletic looking & yet no one would ever describe me as muscular. 51F 170cm 57kg.

 

[Margo Hughes]

There was an interesting exchange about this during the second hearing, starting at about 40:30:00 when they were addressing the raid on the PA house:

Jay Logsdon: "I guess the point is in that this particular case the state manufactured the exigencies, if they had them at all. The reality is, as they explained in their own affidavit, they're essentially watching Mr. Kohberger as he moves around his house via snipers. I mean, they were quite safe, and there was simply no reason to bash the doors in momentarily after yelling from their BearCat."

Judge: "There's two issues. There's officer safety, there's also destruction of evidence concerns."

JL: "In the case that we cited, Judge, when the claim has been that there's evidence being destroyed, the evidence, what's known to the officers is something along the lines of, hear somebody running away after they announce themselves. That's, it's not typical that the police simply don't knock and announce at all in those cases. They usually give the person the opportunity to surrender, but it's not a particularly long one and in this case they don't do that at all. And the only thing they knew was that he's walking around from room to room and that he has some kitchen gloves on. And I don't think that equates necessarily to the destruction, you know."

Judge: "Well, that's not all they knew. But I won't go into the detail in order to preserve, so as we don't go into those issues."

Also, shortly before that, there's a funny exchange when JL is trying to compare this to Dylann Roof and the judge dismisses it with a "Whoever Mr. Roof is."

Could the D suggest that BK has OCD and wears gloves, puts trash in baggies, as a ritual, in which case it would be ordinary behavior for him? Just my own opinion..........

 

[MassGuy]

Could the D suggest that BK has OCD and wears gloves, puts trash in baggies, as a ritual, in which case it would be ordinary behavior for him? Just my own opinion..........

Yes, I think that's absolutely the best way to go. I don't think a jury will buy that, but it's the closest you can get to making sense of his behavior in that regard. I'd be shocked if they didn't try that.

 

[Karin1974]

Could the D suggest that BK has OCD and wears gloves, puts trash in baggies, as a ritual, in which case it would be ordinary behavior for him? Just my own opinion..........

IMO - Absolutely & if true, there should be some way of proving/disproving this too. Asking those who lived with him, was this a habit, other than after the murders, did anyone ever see him wearing gloves & separating his rubbish before this? I believe he has fixed himself into a nice, tight corner by turning his phone off that night & wearing gloves to separate his rubbish as I don’t believe he really did these things prior to the murders. MOO

 

[Tealgrove]

Yes, I think that's absolutely the best way to go. I don't think a jury will buy that, but it's the closest you can get to making sense of his behavior in that regard. I'd be shocked if they didn't try that.

However if this was new behaviour and his family had not seen it before and he wasn’t doing in Pullman, it might be hard to make that argument. I’m sure they will try.

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Is it possible BK thought sniffer dogs might be used to try and scent him ?
That's the only reason I can think he would bag his garbage and put it in a different bin.
Could he have thought he'd left no trace in the house but maybe a trained canine could track him? Maybe after what he did, he'd simply lost his mind in general with fear / paranoia?

 

[MassGuy]

Is it possible BK thought sniffer dogs might be used to try and scent him ?
That's the only reason I can think he would bag his garbage and put it in a different bin.
Could he have thought he'd left no trace in the house but maybe a trained canine could track him? Maybe after what he did, he'd simply lost his mind in general with fear / paranoia?

Anything is possible, but the DNA thing makes perfect sense. He'd obviously be very familiar with DNA, and it would have factored into his murder plot (minimizing that type of evidence).

Perhaps he thought if they didn't obtain his DNA, they'd reach a dead end. Of course not realizing that familial DNA would be just as effective in obtaining an arrest warrant.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Could the D suggest that BK has OCD and wears gloves, puts trash in baggies, as a ritual, in which case it would be ordinary behavior for him? Just my own opinion..........

They could suggest it, and if it was part of an OCD ritual, that would be very easy to established. I don’t think that’s the case here, simply because the defense hasn’t brought it up.
I will weigh in further, not as an expert but as the mother of an adult son with OCD. It is a stereotype that all people with the condition are super neat and clean and germaphobic. It can involve a myriad of things and rituals that would make your head spin. A sense of humor is recommended!
Concerning BK, in my opinion, his handling of the trash is an attempt to limit the chances of LE having access to his DNA and nothing more.


Opinion

 

[Kemug]

I have a feeling that he might be of a “serial killer” type, but attacking four people is inexplicable, at least to me.

RSBM
But he didn't set out to attack 4 people, "only" one, it is believed. The other 3 just got in the way.

 

[Megnut]

IMO the greatest argument for an expectation of privacy regarding DNA and IGG would benefit those criminals who commit their crimes long before DNA analysis and genetic genealogy were a thing, but guess what -- they have no standing either.

As the judge said so succinctly, leaving your DNA at the crime scene is probable cause -- every day and twice on Sunday.

And if the technology becomes more sensitive and the databases fill in more, all the worse for criminals, might as well leave your DNA on your driver's license and leave it at the crime scene so LE can beat you to your door.

You'd think with DNA matching, CCTV coverage, search histories, and GPS and wifi tracking, criminals would stop criminaling but here we are. A lot of the smartest people in the room staring out from behind dumb bars.

I think BK found regular life boorish.

So he took up gambling.

With his freedom.

But, sorry to say it, BK -- house wins.

The Big House

JMO