Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[sunshineray]

No hung jury IMO, but I thought Indiana was a Murder not being a bondable charge state? RA appears almost happy & healthy in his latest mug shot, and 10+ years younger, except for those dead shark eyes.

I can see how BB might have thought RA looked younger from a distance of 50 feet.

JMO

Oh I didn't know that about Indiana being a murder is not bondable state.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm trying to find more information about what was said in the mini-opening statements and this came up.
What would that have anything to do with this case?!

Reminding the prospective jurors to remain skeptical and open-minded, both attorneys referenced an instance where an unnamed Greenwood man posed as an attorney without actually being admitted to the bar.

Delphi murders case jury selection ends with 16 jurors - Daily Journal

By Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee | The Murder Sheet

dailyjournal.net

 

[sunshineray]

Day Four #Justice4Abby&Libby​

Jury gets sworn in today <3

 

[sunshineray]

I'm trying to find more information about what was said in the mini-opening statements and this came up.
What would that have anything to do with this case?!

Delphi murders case jury selection ends with 16 jurors - Daily Journal

By Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee | The Murder Sheet

dailyjournal.net

That people may not be what they seemed to be? Or maybe beware of "expert" witnesses, they may not be so expert as they claim to be? lol
Those are my guesses.

 

[FrostedGlass]

That people may not be what they seemed to be? Or maybe beware of "expert" witnesses, they may not be so expert as they claim to be? lol
Those are my guesses.

I think it's odd that they would use an attorney as an example; that (kind of) casts doubt on their own profession.
Couldn't they have picked better hoaxters? I'm sure there are a lot of other examples out there.
MOO

 

[sunshineray]

^^rsbm

IMO, this debacle with the sketches was one of the biggest disservices done to this investigation. To this date, it makes no sense to me how this was handled. Why ISP could not say Sketch #1 was an error, we have a news on a new suspect -- see Sketch #2, is beyond me...

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/in...-released-new-sketch-in-delphi-investigation/

There was a third sketch, included in one of the FMs (cannot remember which one, maybe someone knows?) and contributed by one of the teenage girls that walked right by him. To my eye, it's the same guy as BB's sketch from 50-ish feet away. SC was driving by in a car, a much different perspective and timelaspe. But wasn't OBG sketch contributed to by more than one person?

 

[sunshineray]

I think it's odd that they would use an attorney as an example; that (kind of) casts doubt on their own profession.
Couldn't they have picked better hoaxters? I'm sure there are a lot of other examples out there.
MOO

It does seem an odd choice lol

 

[Warwick7]

If he is, then there should be a public uproar imo! Considering how much this has / will cost the tax payers, who don’t even have access to the trial they’re paying for… they should be mad as heck if the State fails to prove their case Bard and RA is acquitted. To be clear - before anyone comes at me - I am not in any way suggesting any vocal or physical assaults towards the people involved on either side, nor towards the court staff, LE or jurors!! I am only positing that an acquittal should make people mad and in turn should make people really consider arrests more carefully in the future. Mooooo.

BBM
If there is an acquittal people will be mad. If he is pronounced guilty people will be mad. An acquittal does not equate that an arrest was inadequate. LE worked swift, diligently, and laboriously. There were over 4000 tips that were examined, LE carried out thousands of interviews, worked out timelines and sought out search warrants....etc...etc...etc...
If it wasn't for them we wouldn't be here today.

 

[Megnut]

I'm trying to find more information about what was said in the mini-opening statements and this came up.
What would that have anything to do with this case?!

Delphi murders case jury selection ends with 16 jurors - Daily Journal

By Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee | The Murder Sheet

dailyjournal.net

I believe the context comes in the next sentence in the article. "Things are not always as they seem" in relation to the confessions. I'm gathering they hope to shift the confessions from actual confessions to seem-like confessions.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

I can’t keep track I thought today it all properly started. Why does it take a whole day to be sworn in?

When I did it in the U.K. it takes about 15 mins give or take. Then you proceed with the trial.

Considering the cost of this trial was being moaned about it seems crazy how much time seems to be wasted. moo

 

[Justice101]

^^rsbm

IMO, this debacle with the sketches was one of the biggest disservices done to this investigation. To this date, it makes no sense to me how this was handled. Why ISP could not say Sketch #1 was an error, we have a news on a new suspect -- see Sketch #2, is beyond me...

https://fox59.com/news/indycrime/in...-released-new-sketch-in-delphi-investigation/

And then he ended up looking for like Sketch 1... head scratcher

 

[Warwick7]

And to be clear - not suggesting arrests shouldn’t be made. More saying if the State wants a conviction and to spend millions in trials / housing in prison or jail pre trial etc they should be certain of their case before they arrest someone is all. Maybe the State is certain and maybe they have the proof… I hope they do. Moo

BBM
What I fear is that LE are certain. Meaning, I fear the evidence that is going to come out. It will be graphic and horrific. The details will shake some of us to the core. I remember all to well how badly many of us were shaken because of how graphic Kelsey Berreth's murder was.

 

[Justice101]

I believe the context comes in the next sentence in the article. "Things are not always as they seem" in relation to the confessions. I'm gathering they hope to shift the confessions from actual confessions to seem-like confessions.

JMO

My wild guess is there is a timeline where he confessed honestly... then when he realized he had confessed and his lawyers talked to him, that he would then continue to confess, but give false details in his confession that would make it seem like he was not the killer.

However, if any of the confessions have special details that only the killer would know... not generic details like death by knife but perhaps details like I redressed Abby or I put sticks on Libby or anything that is kind of random that matched the crime scene, then this will be important for the prosecution.

If there is a pattern of "false detail" confessions versus "true detail" confessions, I suspect the prosecution will highlight that to the jury

 

[Justice101]

BBM
What I fear is that LE are certain. Meaning, I fear the evidence that is going to come out. It will be graphic and horrific. The details will shake some of us to the core. I remember all to well how badly many of us were shaken because of how graphic Kelsey Berreth's murder was.

Yeh, I'm with you. I sort of don't want to know all the details... but if that is what it takes to convict the guilty person, then do what you must. The thing that bothers me is how long he apparently dwelt there with the girls. Was the time like for over and hour?? Did it end quickly for them or did he drag it out and torture them in the process? Regardless, they had to be absolutely horrified. And that is what saddens me... and makes me very mad.

 

[MiniMoo]

I’m actually nervous and don’t know what to expect.

I’ve been following this case since day one and I’d really like to see justice for the girls, but at the same time I don’t think the evidence seems strong in terms of pointing to RA as the perp.

Honestly, of all the trials, this one is THE one that should be televised. The whole secrecy puts me off big time here.

It should be transparent and livestreamed for sure.

This, for me, has to be one of the most interesting cases due to all the going ons and insufficient evidence.

Friday cannot come quick enough!

 

[shonyakay]

Forgive me if this information has been shared as I have multiple pages to still read here but I wanted to share this.

The following comes from two people who actually attended the July/August hearings.

The claims that RA stated he killed his family come from a May 2, 2023 report of Dr. Wala.

According to Dr. Wala's testimony she stated that on May 2, 2023, RA had a lot to say that day.

He wanted to know why he shouldn't kill himself.
Other inmates were allegedly trying to get him to kill himself. He asked Dr. Wala if he should kill himself.
This is when he stated, I've killed my family. I've killed my best friends but I won't kill myself because I'm too much of a coward. (Not verbatim)

Maybe the grandchild statement was made at that time too. I am not sure.

Time stamp: 0:50

"What will those closest to you think of when they find out you brutally murdered two little girls, two children? Only a coward would do such a thing." - Doug Carter

While Dr. Wala was on the stand it was also verified that in 2019 RA went to a mental institution for a week.

I am curious to know the date. Was it after this 2019 presser?

 

[MrsWatson]

We may all be surprised at what information the State has and how long they've had it.

I have a feeling, we're going to be absolutely shocked at the volume and content of what they know and it's going to be damning for RA.

Justice for Abby & Libby

 

[Salah11]

I have a feeling, we're going to be absolutely shocked at the volume and content of what they know and it's going to be damning for RA.

Justice for Abby & Libby

I believe this as well

He is toast.

 

[m00c0w]

In my opinion, it's not so much the sketches themselves, but the testimony of the witnesses who gave the information for the sketches. There is a lot of controversy over what they said/saw and what was reported in the probable cause affidavit. If the sketches are kept out, those witnesses will likely not be called either (in my opinion/assumption), which would be a win for the State because what they (the witnesses) say could potentially be quite different from what was stated that they said in the probable cause affidavit. In my opinion and how I understand it. I could be wrong.

As always, JMO.

Bbm

While the sketches are not mentioned specifically in the PCA, one sketch that NM wants omitted is from eyewitness SC mentioned in the PCA (p. 4, PCA linked below). SC met with FBI sketch artist “Plantz” June 19, 2017 to illustrate what she witnessed per the PCA. The D says eyewitness SC’s account (stated in the PCA, p.4 & what sketch #1 was based on), was falsified by TL in the PCA-SC did not say she saw a man in a blue jacket but a tan jacket. She also did not say bloody. (Source 167, p. 116 linked below ‘Find attached a flash drive containing SC’s June 7, 2017, interview with Tony Liggett. It is marked as Exhibit 115. SC describes that the man she observed was wearing a tan color coat/lighter colored coat at the 5:07:30 mark.’).

BB, the eyewitness of sketch #2, met with a sketch artist 3 days after passing a potential suspect (from my understanding she would have passed BG on the bridge), was not mentioned in the PCA, and her sketch was not released until way after sketch #1, although she saw the suspect closer up and said the sketch was 10/10.

Specifically quoted from the D memo (p. 105-108; 115-117) which is linked below:

“BB’s first description of the man she saw on the bridge was memorialized in sketch #2 illustrated on February 17, 2017 (3 days after the girls were found) but not released to the public until April 22, 2019 - following Superintendent Doug Carter's press conference.

On February 17, 2017, BB met with State Police sketch artist Taylor D. Bryant and provided a description of the man she observed from 50 feet away on the Monon High Bridge - the same man that Liggett claimed in his affidavit was the killer. BB told the sketch artist that the man she (BB) observed was:

• A white male
• Age 20
• Had Brown Curly Hair,
• Medium build

Find attached and marked as Exhibit 103 the unredacted "Facial Identification Reference Sheet" (filed as confidential) that contains the description that BB provided to the sketch artist. Also, find attached a copy of the sketch that Taylor D. Bryant produced from BB’s description of the man she observed on the bridge, marked as Exhibit 104. This illustration is also called "sketch #2" (because it was released to the public second). Upon looking at the sketch, BB told the sketch artist that the illustration was a "10 out of 10" for accuracy.

The Unified Command did not release the BB sketch to the public for over two years. Instead, they first released the SC sketch, also called "sketch #1" (because it was released to the public first). The SC sketch was illustrated by FBI sketch artist "Plantz" from Detroit on June 19, 2017, and released to the public on July 17, 2017. Who was the person that SC was describing in her sketch? According to Liggett's affidavit, at approximately 3:57 pm, SC observed a man walking westbound on county road 300 north. SC was headed eastbound on county road 300 N, operating her motor vehicle while simultaneously observing this man walking on the road toward her on the opposite side of the road. This is the same man that SC described for the sketch artist on June 19, 2017. <snip>

Roughly two years later, in March 2019, BB met with Tony Liggett, frustrated that her sketch (sketch #2) had not been released to the public. BB was frustrated because sketch #1, which had been released to the public almost two years before, did not match the man that she (BB) observed on the high bridge. BB even commented that sketch #1 was "wrong." <snip>

During her March 7, 2017, interview, BB was talking with two members of Unified Command: Kevin Hammond and Tony Liggett At this interview, BB told Liggett, face-to-face, that the man she (BB) observed on the high bridge fit the following description:

-The man was slender and youthful looking.

-He was more "boyish" looking.

-The man was in his 20s to early 30s.

-His hair seemed "poofy" just as the sketch portrayed.

-He had no facial hair, that she can remember.

Finally, on April 22, 2019, Unified Command released BB’s sketch #2 to the general public. In fact, upon its release, Superintendent Doug Carter commented that the man in BB’s sketch #2 was "responsible for the murders " Also, at the time of the release of sketch #2, Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become "secondary" to the investigation.” (page 105-108; 115-117)

All from my understanding of the documents sourced below. Please let me know if I missed something so I can add to my notes!

SOURCES:

Delphi murders: State wants to keep widely circulated composite sketches out of trial​

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-state-wants-to-keep-widely-circulated-composite-sketches-out-of-trial/

PCA p. 4

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

page 105-108; 115-117
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-

Exhibits cited:

144 Blair's 10 out of 10 comment is memorialized in a report identified as "Incident No. 17-0091-S03. This 10 out of 10 wording can be found in the second full paragraph. Find attached the unredacted report marked as Exhibit 105.

145 Find attached a screenshot from WTHR news (Indianapolis) showing the release of sketch #1, Exhibit 106

146 See exhibit 105 (Incident No. 17-0091-S03) last sentence of second paragraph.

147 Find attached a flash drive containing BB’s March 7, 2019, interview with Tony Liggett, marked as Exhibit 107. BB states that sketch #1 with the "golf hat" is "wrong" at the 11:37:55 mark.

148 Liggett's affidavit, marked as Exhibit 108, and also Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

149 Liggett's Affidavit for Search Warrant.

150 Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

151 Find attached Doug Carters' April 22, 2019, press conference in which BB’s sketch #2 is unveiled to the public. It is marked as Exhibit 109.

152 The fact that SC’s sketch #1 had become secondary to the investigation is confusing, considering Liggett's and Holeman's claim that sketch #1 and sketch #2 are the same person.

The defense is able to call the folks that provided the sketches as witnesses. Excluding the sketches doesn’t prevent that. If the defense actually thinks the witnesses saw someone else and that theory has legs, they would absolutely call them to testify. If the defense doesn’t, that indicates the witness testimony would either harm or not be beneficial to the defense.

All my opinion.

 

[TTF14]

I'm trying to find more information about what was said in the mini-opening statements and this came up.
What would that have anything to do with this case?!

Delphi murders case jury selection ends with 16 jurors - Daily Journal

By Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee | The Murder Sheet

dailyjournal.net

How odd. Especially for them both to mention it.

As always, JMO.