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And if RA says it was him and describes it in great detail, sounding upset but lucid, disregard that, that's not good evidence, not under any circumstances? Just curious
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199
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I think if I understood this correctly, the court has a fence with tarp or something that appears not to be see through which obscures the jurors from viewing the public and vice versa outside the courtroom. Unsure though if this extends to where they will be parking / exiting or entering a vehicle each day or their entry / exit to the building itself. Possibly they won’t see bystanders not admitted to the court room? Moooooo.
As it stands, I believe it is the P's case to lose. And by that I mean that IMO, there is enough circumstantial (and possibly direct) evidence, that when put together in the most plain way possible, paint the RA = BG = the perp picture. If the P does not get bogged down with trying to over explain technical matters, I believe the verdict will be guilty.
Am I 100% certain? No, there are holdout jurors, the possibility of evidence we've never seen before etc. But it is shaping up to be a guilty verdict.
All MOO
Am I 100% certain? No, there are holdout jurors, the possibility of evidence we've never seen before etc. But it is shaping up to be a guilty verdict.
All MOO
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I think I’ve already listed my concerns with RA’s statements quite a few times over the recent months… hopefully we learn a lot more about them etc over the course of the trial! I am keeping an open mind and would like to hear whatever both sides present before I would be willing to throw RA in prison for the rest of his life.
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If they're on the sidewalks leading up to the courthouse they will. MO
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I guess it would be the same issue for them if RA supporters wore attire showing their support of him. I wonder if the court would take issue with this type or thing or not (for supporters of either side along the sidewalks I mean)?
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Q: if the family of the victims or of RA want to have someone from YouTube or social media etc sit with them as family, even if they are not infact family, is this allowed or does some rule preclude them from doing this?
I would find it to be in poor taste personally but not sure of the rules (if any) on this?
I see. But when he says “I killed Libby & Abby” that is literal, and not figurative.
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This trial is not "under wraps."
The public is allowed in. The media has designated seating. This trial will be reported on. That's a far cry from not being "transparent". Does it suck that we won't get to see it play out 'live' via estream or in-person?? ... It sure as heck does, but that doesn't make it "under wraps".
Now imagine your're actually a local who is directly impacted by this heinous murder and actually invested in the outcome of a trial of one of your community members for the murder of two young ladies from your community ... and you've got to sit in line all night lest the podcasters get your 'public' seat. IMO, any member of the public from Delphi should be prioritized over random podcasters and youtubers from *wherever* --- Bonified Media is for reporting (and usually with less 'spin'). IMO.
At the end of the day, although disappointing, we will get the details.
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I fully expect both side's supporters to be presenting themselves in Delphi tomorrow. Unfortunately the media, MM and SM will be eating it all up. JMO
Still a few more miscellaneous observations for Part VII....the final Part of my series. Nothing has changed on my feeling of RA guilt due to totality of evidence pieces, but am becoming more resolved IMO that a decent chunk of the P's evidence is (arguably) refutable and the P will need to be on their best game to convince 100% of the jury of many of these pieces.
1. It has been correctly noted many times here that RA's blue/black clothing on 2/13 was very typical for men around Indiana and Delphi. If you're not from around central Indiana like I am, I would also point out that the area is an avid sports following area with many folks regularly wearing team gear. The "hometown" teams in Delphi happen to have the following colors.... Delphi HS = Black and gold, Purdue University = Black and old gold, Indiana Pacers = Navy Blue & Indianapolis Colts = Royal Blue. This would be in contrast to down the road south in Bloomington Indiana where Indiana University is Cream/Crimson and the 2 Bloomington high schools have colors of Maroon/Gold and Purple/White.
2. It's been noted on this site many times that "they can't get RA off the bridge" referring to the D's arguments. Well, actually when LG takes the photo looking back to the MHB start, he is IMO off the bridge and nowhere in sight (assuming no LE alteration to LG's photo). I'd feel much more convinced this guy on the first platform that BB witnessed was actually BG if that man stayed on the first platform throughout that ten-minute period or was videoed getting up from that platform and heading the girls' direction. The first platform is nearly a quarter of a mile, 4 city blocks, 4 football fields from the abduction end. Just because RA reported going to the first platform at some point that day, and BB saw someone on the first platform around 1:55 doesn't have to mean IMO it must be the same person who appears at the other end of bridge 20-25 minutes later. If the group made it down the hill at 2:17, it's certainly plausible a person(s) couldn't have walked up the hill likewise and missed being seen by anyone on the trail system.
3. I'm also not convinced IMO that SC saw BG - the timing of her witnessing someone just before 4:00 seems off, especially since the spot it's believed she saw him is still IMO a 15-minute walk from CPS. If thinking from a blank slate, my most likely guesses as to when BG/whoever else would've left the crime scene would be 1) soon after the killing takes place which LE says occurred around 2:30 - that puts him back at his car way earlier than the SC encounter time. 2) when he hears DG or other searchers calling out, reported to be approx 3:15 per LE - again he'd have easily been back in his car before 3:58. Remember, it's believed RA's car passed the HH car coming in at 1:27 so he may not have started his walk until 1:29 and was on the MHB first platform within 26 minutes at 1:55. His return path may have been slightly longer than his arrival path but not 45 minutes or an hour. 3) he could've waited until dark when it was less likely to be spotted by someone (such as an SC) but in that case he'd have missed her by an hour on the late side. It's been claimed here that the killer couldn't have stayed at the crime scene into the night because of being seen by searchers, however MO believes that's faulty logic - first off I don't see many searchers crossing that rickety bridge when pitch dark, and even less crossing a thigh-high creek in pitch dark just as a random spot the girls might conceivably be. Secondly, if BG/any accomplices could've simply charaded as other searchers if a different search group got close, shining their flashlights around and calling out names until the other search group went elsewhere. And of course if RA, he had a loaded gun and sharp object on him if anybody became too pesky.
I do agree it's questionable that no one else has emerged clarifying they were the man SC witnessed, but that well could be explained by not wanting to draw unnecessary attention to themselves as a suspect. BG would've needed to leave the CS around 3:40-3:45 IMO (before dusk) to be at the SC encounter spot at 3:58 - anything's possible but I see room for doubt.
4. If LG was stabbed with the sharp object while on the move (attempting to flee?) as I gathered per the P's blood spatter expert's testimony, I'm presuming RA struck her with his strong (right) hand, which would've left him holding the gun in his weak/left hand, and not controlling AW at all. I also believe it would've required both hands of BG to drag LG back aways to the spot where found, presumably meaning no gun in hand and no control exerted over AW unless she's tied up (which no reports of to my knowledge) or has already passed. Is this how others picture it based on the testimony also?
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4.
1. It has been correctly noted many times here that RA's blue/black clothing on 2/13 was very typical for men around Indiana and Delphi. If you're not from around central Indiana like I am, I would also point out that the area is an avid sports following area with many folks regularly wearing team gear. The "hometown" teams in Delphi happen to have the following colors.... Delphi HS = Black and gold, Purdue University = Black and old gold, Indiana Pacers = Navy Blue & Indianapolis Colts = Royal Blue. This would be in contrast to down the road south in Bloomington Indiana where Indiana University is Cream/Crimson and the 2 Bloomington high schools have colors of Maroon/Gold and Purple/White.
2. It's been noted on this site many times that "they can't get RA off the bridge" referring to the D's arguments. Well, actually when LG takes the photo looking back to the MHB start, he is IMO off the bridge and nowhere in sight (assuming no LE alteration to LG's photo). I'd feel much more convinced this guy on the first platform that BB witnessed was actually BG if that man stayed on the first platform throughout that ten-minute period or was videoed getting up from that platform and heading the girls' direction. The first platform is nearly a quarter of a mile, 4 city blocks, 4 football fields from the abduction end. Just because RA reported going to the first platform at some point that day, and BB saw someone on the first platform around 1:55 doesn't have to mean IMO it must be the same person who appears at the other end of bridge 20-25 minutes later. If the group made it down the hill at 2:17, it's certainly plausible a person(s) couldn't have walked up the hill likewise and missed being seen by anyone on the trail system.
3. I'm also not convinced IMO that SC saw BG - the timing of her witnessing someone just before 4:00 seems off, especially since the spot it's believed she saw him is still IMO a 15-minute walk from CPS. If thinking from a blank slate, my most likely guesses as to when BG/whoever else would've left the crime scene would be 1) soon after the killing takes place which LE says occurred around 2:30 - that puts him back at his car way earlier than the SC encounter time. 2) when he hears DG or other searchers calling out, reported to be approx 3:15 per LE - again he'd have easily been back in his car before 3:58. Remember, it's believed RA's car passed the HH car coming in at 1:27 so he may not have started his walk until 1:29 and was on the MHB first platform within 26 minutes at 1:55. His return path may have been slightly longer than his arrival path but not 45 minutes or an hour. 3) he could've waited until dark when it was less likely to be spotted by someone (such as an SC) but in that case he'd have missed her by an hour on the late side. It's been claimed here that the killer couldn't have stayed at the crime scene into the night because of being seen by searchers, however MO believes that's faulty logic - first off I don't see many searchers crossing that rickety bridge when pitch dark, and even less crossing a thigh-high creek in pitch dark just as a random spot the girls might conceivably be. Secondly, if BG/any accomplices could've simply charaded as other searchers if a different search group got close, shining their flashlights around and calling out names until the other search group went elsewhere. And of course if RA, he had a loaded gun and sharp object on him if anybody became too pesky.
I do agree it's questionable that no one else has emerged clarifying they were the man SC witnessed, but that well could be explained by not wanting to draw unnecessary attention to themselves as a suspect. BG would've needed to leave the CS around 3:40-3:45 IMO (before dusk) to be at the SC encounter spot at 3:58 - anything's possible but I see room for doubt.
4. If LG was stabbed with the sharp object while on the move (attempting to flee?) as I gathered per the P's blood spatter expert's testimony, I'm presuming RA struck her with his strong (right) hand, which would've left him holding the gun in his weak/left hand, and not controlling AW at all. I also believe it would've required both hands of BG to drag LG back aways to the spot where found, presumably meaning no gun in hand and no control exerted over AW unless she's tied up (which no reports of to my knowledge) or has already passed. Is this how others picture it based on the testimony also?
5.
4.
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can hardly blame them imo - no information over the years has led directly to the circus we see before us. If this had been more transparent from the start, people would not be so hungry for every scrap (just moooo).
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If BB didn’t see RA but rather some poofy-haired youth on platform 1, why isn’t the famous video clip of a lithe, poofy-haired youth?RSBM
I wasn’t here at the beginning so I’m unsure if it has already been established that BG=the murderer? It has been verified the full video of BG including “Down the Hill” audio was 43 seconds (PCA; WTHR article). I’m guessing that implies BG is the killer? My interpretation of this is that the entire video is BG walking towards the girls then saying “Down the Hill”; BG would have walked closer to them before directing them down the hill. If the video is only BG walking forward and saying down the hill, why wasn’t the entire 43 second video release? Presumably as BG walked towards them, his face would have been more clear as he got closer. I don’t really understand, am I missing something? BB’s sketch doesn’t look like the guy in the BG video, and her description doesn’t fit (sourced in more detail below).
If BG is RA, it contradicts BB’s testimony. BB helped illustrate Sketch #2 (released 2 years after she illustrated what she say 3 days after the murders) which looked nothing like RA:
View attachment 538399
(Hill, 2019)
Quoted the Memo linked below, p. 105-108, 115-117
bbm
“BB’s first description of the man she saw on the bridge was memorialized in sketch #2 illustrated on February 17, 2017 (3 days after the girls were found) but not released to the public until April 22, 2019 - following Superintendent Doug Carter's press conference.
On February 17, 2017, BB met with State Police sketch artist Taylor D. Bryant and provided a description of the man she observed from 50 feet away on the Monon High Bridge - the same man that Liggett claimed in his affidavit was the killer. BB told the sketch artist that the man she BB observed was:
Find attached and marked as Exhibit 103 the unredacted "Facial Identification Reference Sheet" (filed as confidential) that contains the description that BB provided to the sketch artist. Also, find attached a copy of the sketch that Taylor D. Bryant produced from BB's description of the man she observed on the bridge, marked as Exhibit 104. This illustration is also called "sketch #2" (because it was released to the public second). Upon looking at the sketch, BB told the sketch artist that the illustration was a "10 out of 10" for accuracy.
- A white male
- Age 20
- Had Brown Curly Hair,
- Medium build
The Unified Command did not release the BB sketch to the public for over two years. Instead, they first released the SC sketch, also called "sketch #1" (because it was released to the public first).
Roughly two years later, in March 2019, BB met with Tony Liggett, frustrated that her sketch (sketch #2) had not been released to the public. BB was frustrated because sketch #1, which had been released to the public almost two years before, did not match the man that she (BB) observed on the high bridge. BB even commented that sketch #1 was "wrong." <snip>
During her March 7, 2017, interview, BB was talking with two members of Unified Command: Kevin Hammond and Tony Liggett At this interview, BB told Liggett, face-to-face, that the man she (BB) observed on the high bridge fit the following description:
-The man was slender and youthful looking.
-He was more "boyish" looking.
-The man was in his 20s to early 30s.
-His hair seemed "poofy" just as the sketch portrayed.
-He had no facial hair, that she can remember.
Finally, on April 22, 2019, Unified Command released BB’s sketch #2 to the general public. In fact, upon its release, Superintendent Doug Carter commented that the man in BB’s sketch #2 was "responsible for the murders " Also, at the time of the release of sketch #2, Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become "secondary" to the investigation.”
According to documents, if BB saw BG, then it wasn’t BG in the video; if BG=BB’s eyewitness testimony specifically, he is too young to be RA and doesn’t look like him. Just my opinion from the documentation available to the public.
Sources:
PCA
Delphi murders trial length comes to a head in dueling documents between defense and judge
Delphi murders trial length comes to a head in dueling documents between defense and judge
Currently, the trial for Richard Allen is scheduled from May 13 to May 31 for the killings of Abby Williams and Libby German.www.wthr.com
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say (Hill, 2019)
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say
Indiana State Police say they believe the new sketch "more accurately" represents the killer of Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi.www.indystar.com
D memo page 105-108; 115-117
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-
Exhibits cited:
144 BB's 10 out of 10 comment is memorialized in a report identified as "Incident No. 17-0091-S03. This 10 out of 10 wording can be found in the second full paragraph. Find attached the unredacted report marked as Exhibit 105.
145 Find attached a screenshot from WTHR news (Indianapolis) showing the release of sketch #1, Exhibit 106
146 See exhibit 105 (Incident No. 17-0091-S03) last sentence of second paragraph.
147 Find attached a flash drive containing BB's March 7, 2019, interview with Tony Liggett, marked as Exhibit 107. BB states that sketch #1 with the "golf hat" is "wrong" at the 11:37:55 mark.
148 Liggett's affidavit, marked as Exhibit 108, and also Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.
149 Liggett's Affidavit for Search Warrant.
150 Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.
151 Find attached Doug Carters' April 22, 2019, press conference in which BB’s sketch #2 is unveiled to the public. It is marked as Exhibit 109.
RA put himself on platform 1 shortly after his arrival. How did he not at any point ever see Poofy? (Excuse the nickname.)
If Poofy exists but isn’t BG, then he’s irrelevant. He didn’t do it.
BB did not approach closely. She never went on the bridge. She had no reason to memorize a random stranger’s appearance. She saw RA.
Yes, BG is the killer. He was too close to the action to not be. If he’s not the killer, there would have been no murder. The would-be killer would have fled. Or perhaps it would have been a triple murder, the real killer ordering BG down the hill with the girls. (But he’d be crazy to try to control 3 people including a grown man, IMHO.). BG did it.
And RA is BG.
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Well, for starters, Libby and Abby are actually dead, and the Allen family is not.
Therefore there is simply no credence to RA’s “confession” that he killed his family, but could be the stone cold truth when it comes to Abby and Libby.
Whether RA =BG will be determined by the jury as they hear all the VALID evidence.
JMO
MiniMoo
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Only if Richard Allen is found guilty through this trial and is indeed the right offender.
Let's hope this trial has what is needed unravel the truth.
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RSBM
I suppose this is a subjective opinion, as my original verbiage was. Considering the fact that we are well into the 21st century, 2024, and have so much technology at our disposal so that public trials can be open to all regardless of distance/limitations/constraints, this trial seems very much, to me (in my opinion), "under wraps." Most non-livestreamed trials at least allow reporters to live Tweet (in my opinion). There's literally black tarp/wrap set up around the courthouse.
As always, JMO.
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