Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

[photographer4]

View attachment 538585Opening statements, composite sketches not allowed, cameras confiscated | Day 1 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Shocker.

According to Baldwin that hair that doesn't belong to Allen actually belongs to a female relative of Libby.

Sooo are we about to find out that its KG's hair or BP's hair or something? Is the hair still significant then in some way? EDITED TO ADD: on re-read, I think they're just using this to point out their view that the investigation was well, lacking for lack of a better word. mooo

 

[twall]

DBM

 

[Ravenmoon]

Sooo are we about to find out that its KG's hair or BP's hair or something? Is the hair still significant then in some way?

IMO,

no. Not at all.

 

[Kittybunny]

I don't think it's a nothingburger. Not at all.

As always, JMO.

So your theory is Libby’s sister is the killer?

 

[SouthEnd]

So your theory is Libby’s sister is the killer?

Honestly that's what I feel like the D is trying to do, create a scenario where everyone/anyone could be guilty. Something like - if we throw enough marbles on the floor, someone is bound to slip and break a hip.

All MOO

 

[photographer4]

Jurors have to weigh the evidence presented.

Personal feelings regarding the outcome should never sway them.
If the evidence is shown to be BEYOND a REASONABLE doubt, guilty.

If there is reasonable doubt, not guilty.


JMO

That's just it though - I think it will be hard to get a juror to vote against his or her personal feelings of what constitutes BARD in their minds. Emotions and feelings are woven into everything people do or don't do - I see no realistic way to separate them. If they're convinced, they'll convict. If they're not, they won't. But I do believe every juror will vote with both their hearts and their heads. MOOOO.

 

[WildHuncher]

If it's true that a hair found clutched in a dead girl's hands was not tested until years later, why the hell not!? That is crazy! I don't care whose it is, not to test a hair found on a victim? Why???

As always, JMO.

My understanding from the available paraphrases from Baldwin’s opener is that the hair WAS tested and identified as familial to Libby. Nobody from Libby’s family was tested for the precise match.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Honestly that's what I feel like the D is trying to do, create a scenario where everyone/anyone could be guilty. Something like - if we throw enough marbles on the floor, someone is bound to slip and break a hip.

All MOO

I agree.
To me, this is why I don't believe anything from the Defense.
Their original theory was built around a specific group of people.
But now, eh
Anyone will do.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

“She came to the office saying goodbye,” Patty recalled, often fighting tears during her testimony. “I told her to grab a jacket. The last thing she said was, ‘Grandma, I’ll be okay.’”

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/grandma-ill-be-okay-libby-germans-grandmother-recalls-day-girls-disappeared-on-delphi-trail/

 

[Bbgiraffe]

i want to make sure i am understanding, is the defense claiming that RA was on the bridge and is the man in Libby's video, but we will see from the video he is not the one who said "guys, down the hill" and that instead, another perpetrator or group of perpetrators were beneath the bridge or at the end of the bridge, somehow made the girls go down the hill to where they had a car waiting, abducted them, did God knows what to them for hours and then brought them back to the crime scene to kill them? is that what the defense is? because without an actual alternate suspect it is probably gonna be a tough sell IMO to the jury. But did they say they have evidence to prove a group of perpetrators? so maybe they do have evidence of a group of perpetrators i am just skeptical because of the misleading statements made about the hair in Abby's hand.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Law enforcement called their search off very early on the 13th, there were no dogs. I’ve seen videos of around that time and there were not that many people out there around that time. Also, say for example they had taken them to RL, it wouldn’t be difficult to take them to that spot unnoticed, also the search was directed downstream the first day and night.

JMO

Crossing the creek never made sense to me. Why would they do that?

11:45 p.m. The search was called off just before midnight. Family members continued to scour the area searching for Libby & Abby. At this point in time, Sheriff Laezenby told WRTV they had no reason to believe that the girls were in imminent danger and crews would resume their search in the morning.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The search for Libby & Abby's killer

On February 13, 2017, Liberty "Libby" German and Abigail "Abby" Williams went for a hike near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi. Here's a look at what has happened since that day.

www.wrtv.com

 

[vls12345]

Are the jurors allowed to ask questions? If so, how does that work? Do they get asked immediately at the end of a witness's testimony? Are they saved until the end of the day? Do they have to wait until one or both sides have rested? Or, ???

 

[Tricia]

Honestly that's what I feel like the D is trying to do, create a scenario where everyone/anyone could be guilty. Something like - if we throw enough marbles on the floor, someone is bound to slip and break a hip.

All MOO

I really hope the defense does not even slightly attempt to go there. There are logical reasons for the hair to belong to a female in Libby's family. That would be so cruel and just flat out wrong. There is no way ANYONE in either girl's family would be suspected in their deaths. Makes my blood boil just to think of the defense trying this theory out.
"Baldwin said hair found in Abby's hand had a root with DNA. The DNA seemed to possibly match a female relative of Libby, and not Allen."

Libby German's dad, sister take the stand | Day 1 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial is starting for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[Seattle1]

Is this true -- no RA DNA? Who did the DNA belong to? I recall from long ago that investigators claimed they had DNA!

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

10/18/24

Baldwin walked the jury through the defense team’s version: that Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.

The attorney said fruitless searches of the area the night before, activity on Libby’s cell phone twelve hours after investigators believe the girls were dead and the complexity of the crime showed the murders would be beyond the ability of one man of modest stature to carry out with two different knives.

He said there was no DNA, social media or forensic evidence linking Allen to the girls’ deaths.

ETA: From MSM dated 2/23/2017

Carroll County sheriff discusses Delphi murder investigation, says DNA evidence ‘fast-tracked’

DELPHI, Ind. – The investigation into the murders of two Delphi teenagers is a complicated one, and Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said investigators are doing everything they can to solve th…

fox59.com

Leazenby did say investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked.”

“I can’t go into the specifics because of the ongoing (investigation), that’s being expedited as best as it can be done,” he said.

 

[iamshadow21]

Are the jurors allowed to ask questions? If so, how does that work? Do they get asked immediately at the end of a witness's testimony? Are they saved until the end of the day? Do they have to wait until one or both sides have rested? Or, ???

I don't know how they do it in Indiana, but in Gannon's trial in Colorado the questions were submitted in writing by individual jurors after both sides had finished with a witness. They would have a sidebar with judge, prosecution and defense to decide which questions were allowed to be asked, and the allowed questions were asked by the judge of the witness.

 

[photographer4]

I don't think it's a nothingburger. Not at all.

As always, JMO.

IMO, its a big whopper with a side order of fries and a coke. MOOO.

 

[photographer4]

Is this true -- no RA DNA? Who did the DNA belong to? I recall from long ago that investigators claimed they had DNA!

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

10/18/24

Baldwin walked the jury through the defense team’s version: that Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.

The attorney said fruitless searches of the area the night before, activity on Libby’s cell phone twelve hours after investigators believe the girls were dead and the complexity of the crime showed the murders would be beyond the ability of one man of modest stature to carry out with two different knives.

He said there was no DNA, social media or forensic evidence linking Allen to the girls’ deaths.

Were LE required to be honest with the general public as to whether or not they had DNA?

 

[m00c0w]

If it's true that a hair found clutched in a dead girl's hands was not tested until years later, why the hell not!? That is crazy! I don't care whose it is, not to test a hair found on a victim? Why???

As always, JMO.

From what I can gather from what has been reported on the opening statement - it appears the hair was tested, and probably where the genetic genealogy expense came from. It was determined to belong to a female relative of one of the girls. The defense claims they never conclusively identified which family member. I'm not sure it super matters since she was redressed wearing a hoodie that would easily contain such a hair. Just my opinion based off of what I've read in this thread and linked articles in the thread so far.

This is the source for hair evidence being female. Not seeing this confirmed elsewhere:

I'm seeing it all over the place in mainstream media reporting - it seems like it was said by the defense in the opening statement.

All my opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

Abby was found wearing Libby's clothes -- hair explained. Shame on the defense!

Libby German's dad, sister take the stand | Day 1 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial is starting for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

10/18/24

Baldwin said hair found in Abby's hand had a root with DNA. The DNA seemed to possibly match a female relative of Libby, and not Allen.

"In seven years, they never turned over the mother or sister's hair to be tested for DNA," Baldwin said.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Is this true -- no RA DNA? Who did the DNA belong to? I recall from long ago that investigators claimed they had DNA!

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/state-defense-deliver-opening-statements-in-delphi-murders-trial/

10/18/24

Baldwin walked the jury through the defense team’s version: that Bridge Guy and perhaps others accosted the girls at the south end of the bridge, loaded them into a vehicle and drove away, only to return twelve hours later to kill the victims near Deer Creek.

The attorney said fruitless searches of the area the night before, activity on Libby’s cell phone twelve hours after investigators believe the girls were dead and the complexity of the crime showed the murders would be beyond the ability of one man of modest stature to carry out with two different knives.

He said there was no DNA, social media or forensic evidence linking Allen to the girls’ deaths.

It's all in the wording IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DNA is not 100 percent conclusive in being a match for RA.

I will also not be surprised to learn that this DNA is not a full panel ( is that the proper terminology?) but a partial one in which RA cannot be ruled out.

This is just my opinion