Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Deleted member 296739]

If the defense has the 2/13/17 phone they would need to state that in pre trial discovery.

That was my question earlier- if they would have to disclose it if they planned to use it? But not disclose just that they had it …

 

[Rosegold68]

Also…..what is RA reason for not having his phone anymore? Where does he think it’s gone?

 

[shonyakay]

We need a smoking gun. Something he said that know one would know. Libby and Abby deserve better then this.

And they (The state) have it.

I guarantee it.

 

[Cota332]

And, it's up to the defense to show that the science behind the casing evidence is dubious.

IMO, they need evidence of one single bullet, fired from a different gun, that exactly matches the RA gun striations.

JMO

It's not the casing evidence that's the issue. It's the lack thereof.

Again, iirc, I haven't seen anything that says ISP Crime Lab tested RA's gun specifically.

Just that ISP received guns from local dealers on loan to test which firearm could have made those marks.

Essentially, it's like testing tire marks to try to deduce which make/model of car could have made them.


ETA Correction : RAs gun was tested

 

[shonyakay]

The state is saving the best for last.

There is a reason the defense seems to only be focusing on an appeal at this point. Imo.

 

[Cota332]

Hopefully RA's own words will make clear and confirm a lot things. We may finally get to hear, via MM and others, what RA has to say, in depth, this week!

I hope so!

 

[KSwizzle]

RA gave his phone identification number to Dullin, Dullin (might be misspelling his name), was tasked with tracking leads and providing the information to LE. It’s 100% LE’s fault they didn’t either read or follow up on his report and get the cell phone at that time. Sure, and like I said, I think RA probably did this, but this is just another failure by LE, what do you expect a murderer to keep evidence against themselves?

 

[sunshineray]

Yes I agree a need to move forward and make progress - we all want to see justice etc.

IMO the standard of evidence they do have is insufficient to bring a case against RA because IMO it doesn't meet the standard (so far/ to date) to be able to be reach BARD. Also and again just an opinion, its just never stacked up in my own mind and nothing presented has been significant enough to alter this.

My real problem is that I still feel IMO that the original LE investigation was incredibly flawed and after 5 years has landed on who they had rather than who actually did it but again that's just opinion, and here we are.

All JMO.

This group of LE would have to be the luckiest in the country to just land on a guy who first before arrest incriminates himself and then after arrest confesses freely over 60 times to everybody but LE (not counting the warden as LE), including his family. I don't know, the odds of that happening in error have to be astronomical...I would think anyway, IMO.

 

[shonyakay]

Also…..what is RA reason for not having his phone anymore? Where does he think it’s gone?

And why is that the only device gone? When he kept 23 other devices.

I wonder if there is evidence that he destroyed that particular phone. I am still trying to figure out why the defense would ask potential jurors how they would feel if a defendant destroyed evidence.

 

[MassGuy]

If you define that as evidence, then all I can say is we have different definitions of evidence.

JMO

I don’t know how anyone can say that’s not evidence. What it comes down to is how much weight we assign to it.

 

[Cedars]

Just playing Devil's advocate here, but LE could have asked the ATF to pull files to see who in the area may have owned a P226. Of course, that does not include second hand purchases (if dealt out of a FFL), or straw man purchases.

ATF would not do that. LE cannot go on fishing expeditions. If LE has probable cause, they can request a trace for the owner of a specific gun that is directly associated with a crime, by it's unique serial number.

"Tracing Process
Firearms tracing begins when ATF or another law enforcement agency recovers a firearm during an investigation and wants to learn where it came from
Fact Sheet - National Tracing Center | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives"

There are many, many restrictions on what LE can and cannot do in terms of invading the privacy of ordinary people and making them a suspect in a crime, for no reason. If they were to violate any of these restrictions, their case could be thrown out of court.

This is specifically to prevent police from convicting innocent people.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

It's not the casing evidence that's the issue. It's the lack thereof.

Again, iirc, I haven't seen anything that says ISP Crime Lab tested RA's gun specifically.

Just that ISP received guns from local dealers on loan to test which firearm could have made those marks.

Essentially, it's like testing tire marks to try to deduce which make/model of car could have made them.


ETA Correction : RAs gun was tested

You are correct - sorry, I deleted my post.

 

[browneyes]

Thank you all for your very informative posts. I believe RA is BG, and guilty of this horrific crime. The evidence is there and the prosecution has a story to tell and it must be told piece by piece. The jury seems to be attentive and intelligent. The closing for the prosecution will tie everything together to complete the sad story of that day and I believe a guilty verdict will be rendered. I am patiently waiting for justice for Abby & Libby, and their families.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

And why is that the only device gone? When he kept 23 other devices.

We don’t know how many other devices he got rid of in 5 years- we know he kept 23 (not sure we know they were all his vs family members) and we know that the one from 2017 isn’t among the 23 but he could have gotten rid 57 and ONLY kept 23 devices - we have no idea how many devices he has had over the years … moo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Also…..what is RA reason for not having his phone anymore? Where does he think it’s gone?

He doesn’t have to say if he doesn’t want to- moo IANAL

 

[shonyakay]

We don’t know how many other devices he got rid of in 5 years- we know he kept 23 (not sure we know they were all his vs family members) and we know that the one from 2017 isn’t among the 23 but he could have gotten rid 57 and ONLY kept 23 devices - we have no idea how many devices he has had over the years … moo

I am sure LE has a good idea. There is a reason they brought it up at trial.

 

[sunshineray]

This was my understanding as well. They will play it Monday and they planned to, but with court being short on Saturdays, there wasn't time to do that.

Previously, I saw news reporting mention the DNA expert would be there Saturday (I believe it was said they were scheduled for Friday, but Oberg took the entire day) so I do wonder if there was a schedule issue for the DNA expert for Sat so they moved things around.

JMO

Ahhh I hadn't heard about that. It makes sense then some shuffling probably occured.

 

[photographer4]

I think it's the fact his phone may be missing from the tower data for the trails area when he says he was using it at the trails area. That's the stand out part for me, MO.

Have we had evidence to support this? I know you used the word "may" so I'm just seeking clarification is all. Ty in advance. Not moo - asking a question.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I am sure LE has a good idea. There is a reason they brought it up at trial.

I’m not as sure LE knows, and everything brought up at trial by the P is presented in the way that makes RA look as guilty as possible because that’s their job - but only my opinion

 

[photographer4]

You’re absolutely correct. However if it were evidence of guilt & they did have it, none of them would have the integrity to turn it in either. They’d allow those families to wonder until their dying days & trade the lives of 2 young girls for their egos IMO.

They have to live with what they choose to do. You reap what you sow.

Obviously (I hope) nothing meant towards you, p4.

JMO

Sure. We've seen this happen in another famous case as well - Paul Bernardo. The videos of his atrocities against his victims were hidden in the ceiling of his house and LE didn't find them. He told his lawyer where they were and the lawyer went and retrieved them. Sadly, he didn't turn them over for 17 months. By the time he did so, Bernardo's ex wife had gotten what Canada calls a "Sweetheart Deal" because the Prosecution didn't have evidence of her role in the crimes and she claimed she was a victim of spousal abuse. It was pretty disgusting imo. You can read more about it here: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/court-finds-bernardo-lawyer-not-guilty-1.252668

Interestingly, Bernardo's lawyer was charged and later acquitted of obstruction of justice.

In regards to RA's case, I doubt highly his lawyers are in possession of the cell phone from the day of the murders but I suppose anything is possible.