Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Warwick7]

"The terrain is “pretty rough and steep,” he told the court. He showed the jury a map of the area and walked them through the topography. He described how investigators carefully marked the area near ground zero and the path leading to the girls’ bodies."

Maybe I missed something earlier, but, I don't remember hearing about a "...path leading to the girls' bodies."

What path?

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-day-3-of-testimony-includes-graphic-crime-scene-photos/

 

[Cedars]

I’m not sure that’s the job of the defense- but IANAL-

I was commenting on OP saying that only one thing was missing- and the fact that I don’t know that at all- no clue what all he got rid of and or what if any explanation for the missing phone is -

I’m guessing he destroyed it/got rid of it in 2022 after the second interview and said something like I was going to give you my phone but… and maybe there will be an explanation as to how and why - but I don’t know- hasn’t been publicly addressed yet I don’t think - but just my own thoughts- I don’t know what happened-

but the trial isn’t over, so I do know that more information and evidence is yet to come - so maybe many of the unknowns will become known in time-

The police officer said, under oath: "there was only one phone we did not recover and it was the phone from 2017"

Hidden True crime makes the point she is directly quoting him.

live on YT, 10-24-24, 1 hr 44 mins.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

This article states that Abby & Libby were wrapped “in clean white sheets”. It is not clear if that is something the detectives did after their bodies were found or if the girls were discovered that way. It is also said Libby was nude and Abby was in Libby’s clothes, so it’s hard to tell if that was under white sheets or if the sheets were added after they were found.
Does anyone know when the white sheets came in? This is reminiscent of another crime scene I am aware of.

Gasps and tears as graphic images of Abby and Libby are shown to jurors at Delphi trial

Graphic images from the crime scene were shown to the public for the first time as the third day of testimony in the Delphi case wrapped up.

eu.jconline.com

No white sheets found at the crime scene upon discovery of the girls. I'm sure they were used by the forensics team to wrap theirs bodies for transport and then in a body bag. The sheets keeping any physical evidence, attached but not yet collected, in place. MO

 

[smamda]

This article states that Abby & Libby were wrapped “in clean white sheets”. It is not clear if that is something the detectives did after their bodies were found or if the girls were discovered that way. It is also said Libby was nude and Abby was in Libby’s clothes, so it’s hard to tell if that was under white sheets or if the sheets were added after they were found.
Does anyone know when the white sheets came in? This is reminiscent of another crime scene I am aware of.
<Snipped source>

I believe the sheets must have been put on the girls after they were found, as we already have testimony on exactly how the girls were found, and the jury has seen the photos.

 

[Boxer]

I've always assumed this to be a lie, and he didn't have his phone on him that day. No one's watching fish. No one is walking along outside looking at stocks that update every several seconds. Richard Allen is not a day trader.

From AI Google:
Towers do not record the specific websites or applications that a phone connects to when using cellular data; they only register which cell tower a phone is connected to, providing a general location based on the tower's coverage area, not the specific websites visited on the phone. This information about website visits is primarily logged by your cellular service provider and can be accessed with a warrant in certain situations.

Cell towers track connection:

A cell tower only records which tower your phone is connected to, not the websites you access.

While cell towers don't directly record website visits, your location can be inferred based on which tower you're connected to.

But:
Cellular provider logs data:
Your mobile service provider keeps records of your data usage, including which websites you visit when connected to their cellular network

 

[WildHuncher]

"The terrain is “pretty rough and steep,” he told the court. He showed the jury a map of the area and walked them through the topography. He described how investigators carefully marked the area near ground zero and the path leading to the girls’ bodies."

Maybe I missed something earlier, but, I don't remember hearing about a "...path leading to the girls' bodies."

What path?

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-day-3-of-testimony-includes-graphic-crime-scene-photos/

“The path” may not IMHO be a pre-existing thing. Just the easiest route from the disturbed area on the creek bank to ground zero. That is, the presumed route of the killer and his victims.

 

[Boxer]

Playing devil’s advocate again. I have a bunch of my family’s old phones but I don’t have my last one or two because I got money back from Apple towards my new phone when I returned the old one to them in the mailer they sent with the new one. I do hope the P has checked on this just in case. Surely there would be records of this one way or the other.

Perfect crime stuff. Having ATT wipe your phone for you.

 

[susane7]

Another bothersome thing for me, personally, having followed this case from the early days, is that a killer may be set free. You see, there is simply no other person that I'm aware of that can be, or ever was, named as the person suspected of being on that bridge on that day at that time. Lots of ideas, persons of interest, and speculation bantered about ad nauseum, lots of finger pointing, lots of discussion relative to investigative blunders, but for sure, in my opinion, had any REAL evidence come to light that pointed to someone other than RA being BG, we would have heard about it.

I agree. I think if RA isn't convicted (I think it's possible right now with so many mistakes in the investigation) the killer walks like OJ or Casey Anthony IMO. They have no DNA, they just have the bullet and his words. Even if you believe isn't RA (I believe he is) but any other person, they don't have DNA, they don't have anything to connect any other person to that area in that day. I am frustated with the mistakes after mistakes in the investigation. The defense only need 1 or 2 jurors that think "I don't know, the investigation was a mess, so much mistakes are made, I am confused, so I can't convict". Maybe I am pessimistic.

 

[photographer4]

To me it's not so important if RA got rid of that phone, curious yes. What I think is very important is if his phone doesn't show up as connecting to the tower or any surrounding wifi showing him at the trails area that day because RA said he was there and using his phone. MO

Nit picking - did he say he was using *his* phone? or that he watch watching the stock ticker? Do we know if he said HIS phone? Just wondering. Not moo -this is an actual question in case anyone happens to know. Ty.

 

[SouthEnd]

None of us are.

I hope none of us here is a juror in RA's trial, otherwise the trial is in trouble! (sorry, sad, tired humour)

 

[photographer4]

"He said investigators searched the scene with metal detectors and recalled a dive team conducting another search."

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-day-3-of-testimony-includes-graphic-crime-scene-photos/

Thanks!

 

[Warwick7]

Will there be enough circumstantial, self-reported/incriminating info, eyewitness reports and cartridge to gun evidence to exclude the killer being anyone else besides RA in the minds of the jurors? It's likely the jurors will acquit because they want more concrete evidence like fibers, dna, and tech data... maybe or especially because it's taken so long to even arrive at a trial.

jmo

Look at Patrick Frazee's trial and how incredibly circumstantial it was. If I'm not mistaken I think you got 156 years.

Patrick Frazee murder trial wraps, lawyer analyzes case and what's next

The murder trial of Patrick Frazee wrapped up on Monday with a jury finding Frazee guilty of all six counts for the death of Kelsey Berreth.

www.koaa.com

 

[cbeagle]

I've always assumed this to be a lie, and he didn't have his phone on him that day. No one's watching fish. No one is walking along outside looking at stocks that update every several seconds. Richard Allen is not a day trader.

A theory on why the RA tip was cleared, the IMEI number in the tip was not found in the cell tower dump, ergo he was not there.
No evidence for this, just an idea.

 

[Boxer]

"The terrain is “pretty rough and steep,” he told the court. He showed the jury a map of the area and walked them through the topography. He described how investigators carefully marked the area near ground zero and the path leading to the girls’ bodies."

Maybe I missed something earlier, but, I don't remember hearing about a "...path leading to the girls' bodies."

What path?

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-day-3-of-testimony-includes-graphic-crime-scene-photos/

The depression they were in is part of the genreral "deer trails" around the creek.

 

[MassGuy]

A theory on why the RA tip was cleared, the IMEI number in the tip was not found in the cell tower dump, ergo he was not there.
No evidence for this, just an idea.

That’s a really, really good thought. That officer mentioned something about following up on tower dump numbers during his testimony.

I think it’s not only overwhelmingly likely he didn’t have his phone, but that’s why he was marked as cleared.

 

[Boxer]

They must have his cellular usage records from his carrier (ATT?)

 

[Warwick7]

“The path” may not IMHO be a pre-existing thing. Just the easiest route from the disturbed area on the creek bank to ground zero. That is, the presumed route of the killer and his victims.

Ok, thank you, that makes sense.

 

[Cedars]

“The path” may not IMHO be a pre-existing thing. Just the easiest route from the disturbed area on the creek bank to ground zero. That is, the presumed route of the killer and his victims.

I recall reference a couple of times to a "slide", that was noticed by someone on the first night, below the south end of the High Bridge. And a photo was shown in evidence that indicated it was clearly a place something/one/ones had gone down, pushing aside the dead leaves and exposing the mud, and marks in the mud. Can't remember where I heard that, probably TMS.

So, when Libby says on the audio "there's no trail here", then BG says "Guys, down the hill", it makes perfect sense.

Also, I remember watching and commenting on the media helicopter footage that afternoon when the bodies had been recovered, it showed police tape below the south end of the bridge.

ETA, I don't think LE could tell how the girls got from the creek to ground zero. That would be very important evidence to undermine any theory that they came down from the cemetery.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

The depression they were in is part of the genreral "deer trails" around the creek.

Thank you, this makes sense also.

 

[fred&edna]

Look at Patrick Frazee's trial and how incredibly circumstantial it was. If I'm not mistaken I think you got 156 years.

Patrick Frazee murder trial wraps, lawyer analyzes case and what's next

The murder trial of Patrick Frazee wrapped up on Monday with a jury finding Frazee guilty of all six counts for the death of Kelsey Berreth.

www.koaa.com

There are many, many cases where juries have convicted with only circumstantial evidence. And, IIRC, circumstantial evidence generally holds the same weight as direct evidence. However, in this particular case AND at this particular point in the trial, I'm of the opinion the jurors will likely want more concrete evidence than has been presented. There could be more evidence to be presented in the days to come, AND it's very possible I'm completely wrong. I wasn't suggesting circumstantial cases never result in the accused being convicted. Also, there's no Krystal Kenney-type witness in this trial as there was in the PF trial.