Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Trebor5591]

Yes I agree a need to move forward and make progress - we all want to see justice etc.

IMO the standard of evidence they do have is insufficient to bring a case against RA because IMO it doesn't meet the standard (so far/ to date) to be able to be reach BARD. Also and again just an opinion, its just never stacked up in my own mind and nothing presented has been significant enough to alter this.

My real problem is that I still feel IMO that the original LE investigation was incredibly flawed and after 5 years has landed on who they had rather than who actually did it but again that's just opinion, and here we are.

All JMO.

The evidence they have was sufficient to get a search warrant and arrest Richard Allen.

His statements that "It doesn't matter. It's over" is more evidence

For a conviction, they are going to also going to need his confessions. I can't wait until they are introduced into evidence.

JMO

 

[Cota332]

I don’t see how that matters.
Without RA placing himself on the trails and bridge and confirmed by witnesses, that car would have meant nothing moving past the HH.
RA was the suspect for other reasons. None of the other Ford owners were.

Also, we might disagree on the relevance of his car but huge props for using the plural of Focus! Love it!

IMO, I think the relevance is that it just adds another tool for the Defense to use. If the defense was willing to try to blame the killings on a cult, I'd bet the defense will repeatedly question why all the stops weren't pulled to investigate every possible avenue.

But yes, the circumstantial evidence, while still circumstantial, is basically insurmountable. Coupled with the direct evidence later (namely the confessions), I still believe we'll get conviction.
Heck, even disregarding the direct evidence, I believe we'll get a conviction.

 

[Megnut]

Very respectfully snipped from your poignant post

Is this response from RA one of the ones captured on video, so that jurors can evaluate the context of the conversation? If you know off the top of your head, or if someone else who sees this knows, I’d like to know, too, please.

Out of everything presented at trial thus far, this is the one that sticks in my craw the most when I am evaluating RA as an innocent witness. It has me questioning what action I would take (knowing I’m innocent of any wrongdoing that day) if I had already come forward and advised LE of my presence and even given them my cellphone information, and subsequently I see grainy pictures/video on TV, billboards, flyers that I believe may be of me.

I’d like to think I’m calling up LE for a chat, and trying to get those images out of the investigation; not just for my sake, but because I know that a picture of me isn’t going to help catch the killer. I think the best course of action, would have been to get an attorney involved at that point. I don’t know how comfortable people are contacting attorneys, however.
I cannot picture me just letting it fly, though.

I’m very uncomfortable with RA saying if it’s from the victim’s camera, then it can’t be him. I also do not like that he can’t produce the phone he says he had with him on that fateful day.

MOO

Mullins ascribes that sentence to RA (a ways down in that chronological article), during an interview which I expect the jury will hear this week.

It's an odd answer.

It's not me if it's from the girls' camera but it is me if not?

He could have tried, "I know that bridge. I never went past the first platform that day" but he didn't.

The sketches aren't photographs but they were placeholders, marking all the places the unknown man was. RA helped. He supplied what he was wearing, which is how the sketches merge, align with the recording, and come into focus as the one man who disappeared from the trail when AW and LG did.

JMO

Richard Allen was not on Delphi investigators' radar. Then a volunteer found a box of tips.

Testimonies in the double-murder trial revealed how investigators focused on Richard Allen in 2022.

www.jconline.com

 

[sunshineray]

I just wanted to point something out here that a lawyer pointed out to me... just because LE did not locate the phone that RA had on him when he was at the bridge that day does not mean that RA does not have it. He is not required to provide it to them. You'd think that if there had been anything worrisome on it though he wouldn't have handed it to Mr. Dullin when they met in the parking lot imo. I don't find it all that weird that LE didn't find the device - perhaps they missed it or perhaps RA lost it or traded it in or whatever. Its really not that odd so much as unfortunate if he doesn't still have access to it and it could have potentially helped clear him. MOOOO.

I think it's the fact his phone may be missing from the tower data for the trails area when he says he was using it at the trails area. That's the stand out part for me, MO.

 

[INfisherman]

I don't think we're expecting such a dramatic moment - surely if the D had the phone and it could help clear RA, they'd have brought it out by now imo. However, just because they don't have it doesn't automatically make RA guilty imo.

You’re absolutely correct. However if it were evidence of guilt & they did have it, none of them would have the integrity to turn it in either. They’d allow those families to wonder until their dying days & trade the lives of 2 young girls for their egos IMO.

They have to live with what they choose to do. You reap what you sow.

Obviously (I hope) nothing meant towards you, p4.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Wait, it doesn’t make sense that the prosecution was super shocked the evidence they fought to get included was included?

Hmm.

JMO

Yeah I don't think that was the case. I think the P had every intention of presenting that video, just not yesterday. It's their case being put on right now. They get to choose how they want to present it to the jury, the timing of things. JMO

 

[Warwick7]

They are going to have to change their timeline midstream on where the car was parked. Wild misses by the state.

What??

 

[INfisherman]

Mullins ascribes that sentence to RA (a ways down in that chronological article), during an interview which I expect the jury will hear this week.

It's an odd answer.

It's not me if it's from the girls' camera but it is me if not?

He could have tried, "I know that bridge. I never went past the first platform that day" but he didn't.

The sketches aren't photographs but they were placeholders, marking all the places the unknown man was. RA helped. He supplied what he was wearing, which is how the sketches merge, align with the recording, and come into focus as the one man who disappeared from the trail when AW and LG did.

JMO

Richard Allen was not on Delphi investigators' radar. Then a volunteer found a box of tips.

Testimonies in the double-murder trial revealed how investigators focused on Richard Allen in 2022.

www.jconline.com

When he stated if it’s not me if it’s from their phone the next question should have been, what if it’s from a trail camera? Probably would have just said not me either, but might have made him trip (if they were recording video & managed not to record over it or forget to press record button). I just shake my head sometimes.

JMO

 

[Cedars]

All the other owners of the other similar cars are not suspects in the murders, surrounded by stacks and stacks of circumstantial evidence.
It is the totality of the evidence that points to RA.
No other Ford Focus owners have confessed 60+ times to these murders.

I agree.

In the case of the footage of the vehicle, the CCTV was never clear enough, or directly tied to the crime, in order to create 'probable cause' search warrants for police to investigate every potential owner of every potential vehicle seen in that footage.

However, in the specific case of RA, police had clear information to suspect he was at the scene at the time of the murders. So, that gives them a rationale to look to see whether his vehicle might have been on the camera footage, etc....

'Probable cause' does not mean scientific probability. It means evidence to suspect someone in particular.

If the defense thinks that counting all the black Ford Focus owners with open rims is a good defense, let them do that...

JMO

 

[Megnut]

It was kind shocking to me tbh.

Based on the headlines, I think we were all under the assumption that they would be able to link RA's firearm to the bullet at the scene definitively. Where the state could've said 'Without a doubt, this bullet came from RA's gun.'

I'm just saying that from before the trial, this seemed like a slam dunk for the prosecution; but my hopes have somewhat deflated since the trial commenced.

And if they have his DNA, they wouldn't be able to call that a match either. It would be a ratio, a statistical match perhaps to the octillions like BK.

LE knows BG had a gun, LE likely had a good idea what kind of gun, recovered a cycled cartridge from ground zero of a crime scene that started with a gun and lo and behold, five years later, their suspect owns that model. That a random fresh cycled cartridge should find itself accidentally in that spot unrelated to the crime has to astronomically unlikely. Gallactically.

Good on LE for holding thst detail close to the vest. It appears that RA didn't think it necessary to deepsix the sig Sauer. For he knew he never fired it. And if he worried at all about that errant cartridge, he was probably satisfied that the forest floor ate it.

Ironically it tried to. Amazing recovery, considering it could have gone deep, never discovered, forever swallowed.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

When he stated if it’s not me if it’s from their phone the next question should have been, what if it’s from a trail camera? Probably would have just said not me either, but might have made him trip (if they were recording video & managed not to record over it or forget to press record button). I just shake my head sometimes.

JMO

Andrea Burkhart explained yesterday in her live on this case that this is actually how the Reid Technique works - the LE will ask the suspect to provide explanations as to how X evidence was at the scene... Not entirely sure where she spoke about this in her video, but here is the link for those who may want to watch.

 

[Bergmann]

we will get a conviction.

The prosecution are the only ones who can secure a conviction.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

And if they have his DNA, they wouldn't be able to call that a match either. It would be a ratio, a statistical match perhaps to the octillions like BK.

LE knows BG had a gun, LE likely had a good idea what kind of gun, recovered a cycled cartridge from ground zero of a crime scene that started with a gun and lo and behold, five years later, their suspect owns that model. That a random fresh cycled cartridge should find itself accidentally in that spot unrelated to the crime has to astronomically unlikely. Gallactically.

Good on LE for holding thst detail close to the vest. It appears that RA didn't think it necessary to deepsix the sig Sauer. For he knew he never fired it. And if he worried at all about that errant cartridge, he was probably satisfied that the forest floor ate it.

Ironically it tried to. Amazing recovery, considering it could have gone deep, never discovered, forever swallowed.

JMO

Out of curiosity, do we know if the LE used a metal detector to sweep the crime scene area where the kids bodies were found? I know the bullet was NOT found by use of a metal detector per testimony last week - just curious if one was used or not at all. Ty. Not moo - an actual question.

 

[sunshineray]

I have a question that might have been answered and actually presented in court even, what was the height of bridge guy from the down the hill video, I understand the actual video is at times upside down, extremely shaky and whatnot but surely the fbi or some tech company could work it out

IIRC, TMS mentioned something about this either on the 7th day of testimony or the 8th. It wasn't a whole lot of info but I believe mentioned the room for error was determined to be 2" on either side, that was the best they could estimate...a 4" variable for height. If I got that wrong I welcome a correction.

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[justtrish]

Yeah I don't think that was the case. I think the P had every intention of presenting that video, just not yesterday. It's their case being put on right now. They get to choose how they want to present it to the jury, the timing of things. JMO

This was my understanding as well. They will play it Monday and they planned to, but with court being short on Saturdays, there wasn't time to do that.

Previously, I saw news reporting mention the DNA expert would be there Saturday (I believe it was said they were scheduled for Friday, but Oberg took the entire day) so I do wonder if there was a schedule issue for the DNA expert for Sat so they moved things around.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

And just because they haven’t produced it (for no known reasons) doesn’t mean they don’t have it and/or it’s not going to come to play in the defense- at this point nothing would surprise me- maybe they have records from a third party app or his stick company that shows he logged in in his phone and then again from his home computer to back up his timeline

Don’t personally think that they still have the phone- but I’d asked the same question a couple days ago if it was a possibility and they hadn’t disclosed it yet-

I wish the early investigation had been more thorough and the case had more physical evidence - moo

If the defense has the 2/13/17 phone they would need to state that in pre trial discovery.

 

[KSwizzle]

My opinion only, but I just think the police and investigators messed this all up at multiple points as they were too stubborn and or too full of themselves to have properly followed through with tasks such as testing the hair, getting the height from the video, having a volunteer go through leads instead of an official paid employee of the force, not following through with an official investigator after you assign a conservation officer to track leads, gun testing and you can only say it could have been from a sauer 226 of that model so it could be any 226 in America at the time, dismissing the fbi from the case, absolute failure of chain of command for evidence

I’m not going to say it’s gross negligence, but I think it’s close to it, my opinion only, and maybe I’m biased on this but especially small county forces have a chip on their shoulder and will refuse help or refuse constructive criticism from larger groups with more knowledge and assets

I think RA could absolutely be the murderer but what has been presented and seeing the evidence/prosecution, they have not so far proved this beyond a reasonable doubt. They have shown, and by his own admission, he was there, he could be bridge guy (I think he is), he owns a 226 of 40 calibre, so what, those things can all be possible with him not being the murderer (I think he is). So you show he said odd statements that it’s over or I’m done, context matters, defense can argue he just meant his overall reputation and scope in town

What’s left? His confessions, I hope they have some solid confessions of RA explicitly stating things that only the killer could know

I wish I was as confident as the people who think this is close and shut but I’m not close to that point yet

 

[Warwick7]

BG is still on that bridge.

They have yet to prove RA was on it.

Are you talking about MHBridge?
They have yet to prove RA was on it?

They dont have to prove it, because he himself stated he was on it. He said he walked on the Monon High Bridge on platform 1 to look at the fish.

Delphi murder accused Richard Allen's appearance shocks spectators

Spectators were shocked when almost two years after Richard Allen's arrest. his entire appearance was almost unrecognizable - from a robust, bearded man to a gaunt, plucked feathered look.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[detectivewannab]

Their whole paper thin case now hinges on these confessions. That's all they've got left.

We need a smoking gun. Something he said that know one would know. Libby and Abby deserve better then this.

 

[MassGuy]

We need a smoking gun. Something he said that know one would know. Libby and Abby deserve better then this.

Yes. That one thing would change everything. It would take all the evidence so far that is perhaps in dispute, and show it in a brand new light.

His own words put him in this position, as they gave law enforcement the probable cause to move forward with a warrant, and ultimately, his arrest. They could very well bury him.