CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #5

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #801
When school staff sees developmental delays, they refer students for testing for said specific delays. That could be hearing, vision, dyslexia, attention deficit, autism spectrum, etc. When they see signs of possible home neglect or abuse that may be *contributing to* said delays, they report the specific neglect or abuse signs to cps. Things such as malnutrition, signs of beatings like bruises, burns, & welts, mites or other signs of filth in clothing, consistent lack of sleep, smell of alcohol or drugs, refusal to comply with remedial interventions, consistent truancy w/o acceptable reason, lack of lunches or money for lunches, signs of sexual abuse, uncontrolled urination or defecation, and so many more symptoms are taught to all teachers and those in positions of required reporting. No child is EVER reported to cps for a simple developmental delay nor would cps involve themselves in developmental delays without reported sign of abuse or neglect. An example would be delayed eye-ear-hand coordination in early elementary. This would never be reported to cps. Consistent lack of sleep, unexplained bruising, hunger, smelly urine soaked clothes daily, smell of meth cooking chemicals, and starvation level skin and bones ALONG with lack of appropriate eye-ear-hand coordination would be referred to BOTH cps and for school adjacent professional analysis and remediation. These two entities do not overlap other than for reporting purposes for the highest good of the child and in the best interests of the child's health, wellbeing, and future.

This was a long explanation but I worked professionally as a social worker, a teacher specializing in at risk populations, and as a juvenile justice professional. I've definitely seen a *lot* of tragic developmental delays caused by neglect and abuse, along with plenty of adults who simply shrugged off said abuse and neglect as acceptable. Its not just the victim children that pay, it's society as a whole.

ETA: a reading delay is diagnosed & remediated by *school* intervention. Abuse and neglect are remediated by *cps* intervention. Its actually very simple.

Thank you for your explanation.

A reading delay has not been mentioned. A developmental delay or as MBM stated they were “behind other kids” likely would not be something that could be remediated by the school, especially as the children were ‘possibly’ autistic, defined as a developmental disorder (causing a delay?).

So IF the mother failed to follow through with testing, diagnosis and supporting the children in a treatment plan this would be an example of the children’s medical needs not being met, a type of neglect which could’ve been reported by the school.

I acknowledge we’ve only been given the briefest of information and there may be much more to the Child Welfare visit than we know.



Autism spectrum disorder is a neurological and developmental disorder that affects how people interact with others, communicate, learn, and behave. Although autism can be diagnosed at any age, it is described as a “developmental disorder” because symptoms generally appear in the first two years of life.
 
Last edited:
  • #802
All MOO. In light of the happy finding of 3-year-old CB alive, I've been musing more about what might have happened with J&L. In DM's newest interview, his story of what happened that morning has shifted a bit (that he ran outside immediately, looked for about 30 seconds and when he came back in, MBM was already on the phone with the RCMP; a change in who was asleep and for how long etc.). Between DM's shifting stories and MBM's continued silence (which her family claims the RCMP requested, and the RCMP denies), I feel more sure than ever that they both know what happened to J&L. In MBM's only interview, she says "they'll talk to anyone, they'll talk to anyone in a store." Coincidentally (or not?), the last confirmed sighting of J&L was in surveillance footage from a store in New Glasgow. Since they haven't been found deceased, and IMO DM and MBM didn't have the smarts or means or time to clean up a death scene, I wonder if J&L ever came home from that shopping trip, and that perhaps they are alive and living with people known to Daniel and Malehya.


what would be the purpose in hiding her two children and not the youngest they share or his other kids?
 
  • #803
I do doubt what he said. Developmental delay is no reason for CSP to get involved. Either the school tried to soften things or DM did. There was probably a different concern.
I want to guess, what I think it was. Im going to guess it was verbal. I.e getting yelled at, maybe one of the kids mentioned something to a teacher.
I say that for 2 reasons, Im editing , until I can find a source for why I believe this to be true. right now its info that I find believable but I cant put a source that is L/e or MSM news.
It also fits with him saying the kids always came to him or listened to him, he was the stricter one maybe?
Maybe he barked a few times?

Having said that I do not think Daniel or Malehya harmed those kids, I am sticking with my original idea that they are still alive.
People can believe whatever, but I don't think either Daniel or Malehya have it in them to hurt the kids. I still believe this situation blew up too fast and someone feels like they are in over their head and is trying to figure a way out.
I dont even believe there was an accident. if either of them believed the kids were deceased. I don't think they'd cope well and we would see that.
I know I am the minority, believing they are alive.
I guess we will see, and I have no doubt we will.

Tons of rumours and speculatuion, none of which has any evidence to back it up. Not about an abduction or an accident or wandering into the woods and a murder... I just dont see it... not at all.
 
Last edited:
  • #804
I want to guess, what I think it was. Im going to guess it was verbal. I.e getting yelled at, maybe one of the kids mentioned something to a teacher. I say that for 2 reasons, 1it fits with his statement about " I will be the Daniel you met...I cant remember his exact words but it was something about him "being that guy again that she met a long time ago, and walks on a big Island beach" like he had changed from that guy and he wanted her to know he would change back.
and 2 is what I have heard people say on other channels that are connected to the family, and I wont put it here b/c its hearsay basically, but to me its believable, about his... lets call it behavior management style, It also fits with him saying the kids always came to him or listened to him, he was the stricter one maybe?
Maybe he barked a few times?

Having said that I do not think Daniel or Malehya harmed those kids, I am sticking with my original idea that they are still alive.
People can believe whatever, but I don't think either Daniel or Malehya have it in them to hurt the kids. I still believe this situation blew up too fast and someone feels like they are in over their head and is trying to figure a way out.
I dont even believe there was an accident. if any of them believed the kids were deceased. I don't think they'd cope well and we would see that.
and I know I am the minority, believing they are alive.
I guess we will see, and I have no doubt we will.

Tons of rumours and speculatuion, none of which has any evidence to back it up. Not about an abduction or an accident or wandering into the woods and a murder... I just dont see it... not at all.

[bbm]

where did he say this? and I don't understand the part about 'walks on a big island beach'
 
  • #805
[bbm]

where did he say this? and I don't understand the part about 'walks on a big island beach'
let me find it, it was after she left his property, BRB
 
Last edited:
  • #806
Now that law enforcement has classified this case as a major unsolved crime, the possibility of abduction can no longer be overlooked.

JMO/IMO. I’ll cite only public sources below. This post focuses solely on the physical environment, known timeline, and feasible movement through the terrain.

So, how could a double child abduction occur in such a quiet, remote, and sparsely populated area?

I’ve spent hours compiling and cross-referencing all available information to outline two possible working theories: a planned abduction versus an opportunistic one.

Below is a breakdown—condensed to the best of my ability—of the terrain, property layout, and the potential abduction routes that may have been used.




SECTION 1: CASE OVERVIEW

Last confirmed public sighting
: Afternoon of May 1, 2025 — Jack (4) and Lilly (6) Sullivan seen on surveillance with family.

Disappearance: On the morning of May 2, parents reported hearing both children inside the home. By ~10:00 a.m., they were gone.

The parents began searching the property and surrounding area immediately. When they were unable to locate the children, the children’s mother contacted RCMP to report them missing.

Residence: Trailer-style home in Lansdowne Station, NS, near a wooded pipeline corridor ~8 km from Hwy 104.

Exit: Believed children left through silent sliding rear door, into backyard.

Evidence found 1.2 km NE of home: one child-sized boot print + piece of fabric (family believes from Lilly’s blanket).

RCMP has not confirmed the fabric's origin, nor have they conclusively stated that the bootprint matches with either Lilly or Jack.

Despite extensive search and rescue, no additional signs were found.





SECTION 2: PROPERTY LAYOUT & ACCESS

1000065735.webp

Small trailer-style home located on Gairloch Road inLansdowne Station, Pictou County, NS.

Gairloch Road is a quiet, rural route with light local traffic and sparse housing. It connects to Mount Thom Road and leads to Highway 104, approximately 8 km away.

The nearest town is New Glasgow (~30 km northeast). Nearby communities include Churchville, River John, and West Branch.

1000065944.webp

Map of Sullivan residence in rural Pictou County, Nova Scotia, showing proximity to Mount Thom Road, West Branch, and Highway 104. Dense forest surrounds the home, offering multiple access points via wooded terrain.

Yard contents include children’s toys, a plastic play structure, and signs of frequent outdoor activity.

The rear yard is not fully enclosed—a partial wire fence surrounds some of the property, but several sections are broken or missing, making entry easy.

A sliding glass door at the back exits to a downward slope leading directly into the forest.

The front of the home faces Gairloch Road, with forest directly across the street.


1000065734.webp

Aerial view of the Sullivan home facing Gairloch Road. Note the direct forest access at rear of property, the minimal fencing, and forested area across the road — all factors potentially relevant in an abduction scenario.




SECTION 3: WANDERING THEORY (Unlikely)

  • No continuous tracks or scent trail.
  • Boot print and fabric found 1.2 km from home — challenging distance for two young children.
  • Jack and Lily would have needed to travel ~1.2 km into the forest — a journey considered highly unlikely for children aged 4 and 6, especially without leaving more evidence behind.
  • Extensive search efforts (ground crews, scent dogs, aerial/drones, infrared surveillance, 160+ personnel) have yielded no trace of either child.
  • Terrain includes dense woods, wetlands, and uneven slopes.
  • Despite exhaustive efforts, including multiple search phases, nothing definitive has been uncovered to suggest the children simply wandered off.
While wandering remains a theoretical possibility, the lack of evidence and distance involved make it increasingly improbable.





SECTION 4: EVIDENCE CONTEXT — BOOT PRINT & FABRIC

A child’s boot print was located on May 3rd, approximately 1.2 km from the residence, along a wooded service trail connected to a pipeline corridor.

It has not been confirmed whether the print belonged to Lilly or Jack, but for the purposes of this analysis, it is presumed to be Lilly’s.

May have resulted from a moment of resistance, pivot, or stumble.

Spring terrain (pine, moss, leaf cover) may have obscured additional or lighter tracks.

A piece of fabric was located nearby — believed by family to be from Lilly’s blanket.

No additional trail, debris, or damage to foliage was reported in the area.


1000065950.webp

Clothing and Accessories — Footwear worn by Jack (top) and Lily (middle), along with Lily’s ladybug backpack (bottom). None of these items have been recovered.


BACKPACK NOT FOUND — Raises Serious Questions

According to Major Crimes investigators, Lilly was wearing a backpack at the time she disappeared.
Despite extensive search efforts, it has never been located.

If the children had simply wandered off into the woods and succumbed to the elements, the backpack should have turned up.
Its continued absence strongly suggests human intervention — potentially someone who removed the children and concealed or kept their belongings.




SECTION 5: POTENTIAL ENTRY & EXIT SCENARIOS


1000065664.webp

Map of Nova Scotia highlighting Highway 104 through Pictou County — a potential escape route for an abductor traveling east or west across the province.


A. Opportunistic Abduction — Front or Side Yard

  • Offender spots children playing unsupervised near the front or side of the home, possibly within view of the tree line.
  • Uses lure (e.g., puppy, reward, request for help) to engage them.
  • Leads or escorts one or both children toward a waiting vehicle.

➤ Strengths: Quick access and fast departure via Gairloch Road to Mount Thom Rd then on to Highway 104 — allowing the abductor to leave the area rapidly and undetected.

➤ Weaknesses: High visibility from road; no confirmed front- or side-yard sighting; doesn’t align with boot print/fabric location unless staged — the rear trail is not along this route.

Additional Context: Opportunistic child abductions are extremely rare — accounting for less than 1% of non-family abductions (NCMEC, U.S. data). These events require a precise convergence of time, opportunity, and motive. Still, not impossible, especially in rural areas with minimal visibility or oversight.

Potential offenders might include:

  • Traveling tradespeople or delivery drivers
  • Neighbors, visiting friends or family, or service personnel associated with nearby properties
  • Hunters or fishermen familiar with local access points or trails


B. Organized Abduction — Rear Trail Access

  • Offender familiar with area enters through woods behind property.
  • Approaches quietly, intercepts children from rear yard.
  • Leads them into forest and toward waiting vehicle on pipeline trail.

Strengths: Matches boot print/fabric location and offers concealment from neighbors or passing traffic. Allows for approach and exit without using the main road or driveway.

Weaknesses: Requires careful planning, confidence, and physical endurance. Risk of unexpected adult presence in home or neighborhood remains a deterrent.

Additional Context: In solved stranger abductions involving more than one child, investigators often uncover signs of planning — things like prior surveillance, familiarity with the area, or use of a lure. These elements appear in the majority of documented U.S. cases (NCMEC/NISMART data).

Offender may be someone on the periphery of the family’s life — a casual acquaintance, neighbor, or someone aware of their living situation.

May have observed children playing in the backyard on previous days. Play equipment, toys, or other visual cues would have clearly indicated the presence of young children.

May have known that May 2 was a PD day, meaning the children would be home and possibly outside.

Familiarity with back trails or local terrain would allow for an escape route that avoids the main roads entirely.




SECTION 6: POSSIBLE ABDUCTION PATHWAY & TIMELINE


1000065727.webp

Hypothetical escape route illustrating an abductor’s approach from the pipeline trail, trekking ~15–18 minutes through wooded terrain to reach the rear of the Sullivan property — consistent with the location of physical evidence found ~1.2 km northeast of the home.
  • Offender parks 4x4 on pipeline trail, ~1.2 km NE of home.
  • Walks through woods to rear of property (~15–18 min).
  • Engages children in yard. Children may have been lured willingly — e.g., promise of adventure, seeing an animal — or subtly threatened. Both may have complied voluntarily or under fear.
  • Leads children through wooded trail back to vehicle (~25–30 min): Jack (4) likely carried in arms or on hip. Lilly (6) may have walked, or been carried on back.
  • Loads children into vehicle and drives toward Hwy 104.

Total estimated duration: ~45–55 minutes.



Questions to consider:
• Which route seems most plausible based on terrain and timing?
• Could someone unfamiliar with the area have pulled this off?
• What does the location of the potential evidence suggest, if anything?
• How likely is it that someone would know about the trail behind the house?
• Does the terrain suggest a planned abduction scenario, or a spontaneous choice?


Disclaimer: I’ve spent hours reviewing maps, timelines, and confirmed details to explore a possibility that hasn’t been widely discussed: a potential abduction, based on terrain, access points, and where (potential) evidence was found.

This post isn’t about dismissing other theories — just taking a step back from speculation and focusing on what the scene itself might be telling us.

Everything here is just my opinion, and I hope people stay open to different possibilities as more information becomes available. With so little confirmed so far, it’s easy to get locked into one idea. I want to stay open minded, as tunnel vision never helps in any case.




Sources:

Nova Scotia Major Crime Reward – Jack & Lilly Sullivan
Official case listing; includes missing persons details, clothing, and reward.

CBC News – New Details of Investigation
Reports encrypted radio traffic about a blanket possibly linked to the case.

Global News – Surveillance & Search Efforts
Covers early search efforts and video footage obtained by RCMP.
OIG Audit Report 09-08
U.S. DOJ / FBI – Child Abduction Patterns (OIG)
Stats and behavioral trends in child abduction investigations.
 

Attachments

  • 1000065735.webp
    1000065735.webp
    191.6 KB · Views: 26
  • 1000065733.webp
    1000065733.webp
    229.5 KB · Views: 25
  • 1000065727.webp
    1000065727.webp
    13.8 KB · Views: 32
  • 1000065999.webp
    1000065999.webp
    133.4 KB · Views: 35
Last edited:
  • #807
Now that law enforcement has classified this case as a major unsolved crime, the possibility of abduction can no longer be overlooked.

JMO/IMO. I’ll cite only public sources below. This post focuses solely on the physical environment, known timeline, and feasible movement through the terrain.

So, how could a double child abduction occur in such a quiet, remote, and sparsely populated area?

I’ve spent hours compiling and cross-referencing all available information to outline two possible working theories: a planned abduction versus an opportunistic one.

Below is a breakdown—condensed to the best of my ability—of the terrain, property layout, and the potential abduction routes that may have been used.




SECTION 1: CASE OVERVIEW

Last confirmed public sighting
: Afternoon of May 1, 2025 — Jack (4) and Lilly (6) Sullivan seen on surveillance with family.

Disappearance: On the morning of May 2, parents reported hearing both children inside the home. By ~10:00 a.m., they were gone.

The parents began searching the property and surrounding area immediately. When they were unable to locate the children, the children’s mother contacted RCMP to report them missing.

Residence: Trailer-style home in Lansdowne Station, NS, near a wooded pipeline corridor ~8 km from Hwy 104.

Exit: Believed children left through silent sliding rear door, into backyard.

Evidence found 1.2 km NE of home: one child-sized boot print + piece of fabric (family believes from Lilly’s blanket).

RCMP has not confirmed the fabric's origin, nor have they conclusively stated that the bootprint matches with either Lilly or Jack.

Despite extensive search and rescue, no additional signs were found.





SECTION 2: PROPERTY LAYOUT & ACCESS

View attachment 597051
Small trailer-style home located on Gairloch Road inLansdowne Station, Pictou County, NS.

Gairloch Road is a quiet, rural route with light local traffic and sparse housing. It connects to Mount Thom Road and leads to Highway 104, approximately 8 km away.

The nearest town is New Glasgow (~30 km northeast). Nearby communities include Churchville, River John, and West Branch.

View attachment 597059
Map of Sullivan residence in rural Pictou County, Nova Scotia, showing proximity to Mount Thom Road, West Branch, and Highway 104. Dense forest surrounds the home, offering multiple access points via wooded terrain.

Yard contents include children’s toys, a plastic play structure, and signs of frequent outdoor activity.

The rear yard is not fully enclosed—a partial wire fence surrounds some of the property, but several sections are broken or missing, making entry easy.

A sliding glass door at the back exits to a downward slope leading directly into the forest.

The front of the home faces Gairloch Road, with forest directly across the street.


View attachment 597042
Aerial view of the Sullivan home facing Gairloch Road. Note the direct forest access at rear of property, the minimal fencing, and forested area across the road — all factors potentially relevant in an abduction scenario.




SECTION 3: WANDERING THEORY (Unlikely)

  • No continuous tracks or scent trail.
  • Boot print and fabric found 1.2 km from home — challenging distance for two young children.
  • Jack and Lily would have needed to travel ~1.2 km into the forest — a journey considered highly unlikely for children aged 4 and 6, especially without leaving more evidence behind.
  • Extensive search efforts (ground crews, scent dogs, aerial/drones, infrared surveillance, 160+ personnel) have yielded no trace of either child.
  • Terrain includes dense woods, wetlands, and uneven slopes.
  • Despite exhaustive efforts, including multiple search phases, nothing definitive has been uncovered to suggest the children simply wandered off.
While wandering remains a theoretical possibility, the lack of evidence and distance involved make it increasingly improbable.





SECTION 4: EVIDENCE CONTEXT — BOOT PRINT & FABRIC

A child’s boot print was located on May 3rd, approximately 1.2 km from the residence, along a wooded service trail connected to a pipeline corridor.

It has not been confirmed whether the print belonged to Lilly or Jack, but for the purposes of this analysis, it is presumed to be Lilly’s.

May have resulted from a moment of resistance, pivot, or stumble.

Spring terrain (pine, moss, leaf cover) may have obscured additional or lighter tracks.

A piece of fabric was located nearby — believed by family to be from Lilly’s blanket.

No additional trail, debris, or damage to foliage was reported in the area.


View attachment 597047
Clothing and Accessories — Footwear worn by Jack (top) and Lily (middle), along with Lily’s ladybug backpack (bottom). None of these items have been recovered.


BACKPACK NOT FOUND — Raises Serious Questions

According to Major Crimes investigators, Lilly was wearing a backpack at the time she disappeared.
Despite extensive search efforts, it has never been located.

If the children had simply wandered off into the woods and succumbed to the elements, the backpack should have turned up.
Its continued absence strongly suggests human intervention — potentially someone who removed the children and concealed or kept their belongings.




SECTION 5: POTENTIAL ENTRY & EXIT SCENARIOS


View attachment 597058
Map of Nova Scotia highlighting Highway 104 through Pictou County — a potential escape route for an abductor traveling east or west across the province.


A. Opportunistic Abduction — Front or Side Yard

  • Offender spots children playing unsupervised near the front or side of the home, possibly within view of the tree line.
  • Uses lure (e.g., puppy, reward, request for help) to engage them.
  • Leads or escorts one or both children toward a waiting vehicle.

➤ Strengths: Quick access and fast departure via Gairloch Road to Mount Thom Rd then on to Highway 104 — allowing the abductor to leave the area rapidly and undetected.

➤ Weaknesses: High visibility from road; no confirmed front- or side-yard sighting; doesn’t align with boot print/fabric location unless staged — the rear trail is not along this route.

Additional Context: Opportunistic child abductions are extremely rare — accounting for less than 1% of non-family abductions (NCMEC, U.S. data). These events require a precise convergence of time, opportunity, and motive. Still, not impossible, especially in rural areas with minimal visibility or oversight.

Potential offenders might include:

  • Traveling tradespeople or delivery drivers
  • Neighbors, visiting friends or family, or service personnel associated with nearby properties
  • Hunters or fishermen familiar with local access points or trails

B. Organized Abduction — Rear Trail Access

  • Offender familiar with area enters through woods behind property.
  • Approaches quietly, intercepts children from rear yard.
  • Leads them into forest and toward waiting vehicle on pipeline trail.

Strengths: Matches boot print/fabric location and offers concealment from neighbors or passing traffic. Allows for approach and exit without using the main road or driveway.

Weaknesses: Requires careful planning, confidence, and physical endurance. Risk of unexpected adult presence in home or neighborhood remains a deterrent.

Additional Context: In solved stranger abductions involving more than one child, investigators often uncover signs of planning — things like prior surveillance, familiarity with the area, or use of a lure. These elements appear in the majority of documented U.S. cases (NCMEC/NISMART data).

Offender may be someone on the periphery of the family’s life — a casual acquaintance, neighbor, or someone aware of their living situation.

May have observed children playing in the backyard on previous days. Play equipment, toys, or other visual cues would have clearly indicated the presence of young children.

May have known that May 2 was a PD day, meaning the children would be home and possibly outside.

Familiarity with back trails or local terrain would allow for an escape route that avoids the main roads entirely.




SECTION 6: POSSIBLE ABDUCTION PATHWAY & TIMELINE


View attachment 597060
Hypothetical escape route illustrating an abductor’s approach from the pipeline trail, trekking ~15–18 minutes through wooded terrain to reach the rear of the Sullivan property — consistent with the location of physical evidence found ~1.2 km northeast of the home.
  • Offender parks 4x4 on pipeline trail, ~1.2 km NE of home.
  • Walks through woods to rear of property (~15–18 min).
  • Engages children in yard. Children may have been lured willingly — e.g., promise of adventure, seeing an animal — or subtly threatened. Both may have complied voluntarily or under fear.
  • Leads children through wooded trail back to vehicle (~25–30 min): Jack (4) likely carried in arms or on hip. Lilly (6) may have walked, or been carried on back.
  • Loads children into vehicle and drives toward Hwy 104.

Total estimated duration: ~45–55 minutes.



Questions to consider:
• Which route seems most plausible based on terrain and timing?
• Could someone unfamiliar with the area have pulled this off?
• What does the location of the potential evidence suggest, if anything?
• How likely is it that someone would know about the trail behind the house?
• Does the terrain suggest a planned abduction scenario, or a spontaneous choice?


Disclaimer: I’ve spent hours reviewing maps, timelines, and confirmed details to explore a possibility that hasn’t been widely discussed: a potential abduction, based on terrain, access points, and where (potential) evidence was found.

This post isn’t about dismissing other theories — just taking a step back from speculation and focusing on what the scene itself might be telling us.

Everything here is just my opinion, and I hope people stay open to different possibilities as more information becomes available. With so little confirmed so far, it’s easy to get locked into one idea. I want to stay open minded, as tunnel vision never helps in any case.




Sources:

Nova Scotia Major Crime Reward – Jack & Lilly Sullivan
Official case listing; includes missing persons details, clothing, and reward.

CBC News – New Details of Investigation
Reports encrypted radio traffic about a blanket possibly linked to the case.

Global News – Surveillance & Search Efforts
Covers early search efforts and video footage obtained by RCMP.
OIG Audit Report 09-08
U.S. DOJ / FBI – Child Abduction Patterns (OIG)
Stats and behavioral trends in child abduction investigations.
Great post, thank you for compiling and organizing the information! Good work :)

I too, have not discounted a semi-planned abduction. My father worked in a max penitentiaries and had a background in criminal psychology in Canada and he would tell us often how many offenders are indeed predators... where they watch.. and wait for the perfect time to strike.

If this is the case here and there is an abductor, I think they are quasi familiar with the area to know routes/shortcuts but doesn't live there.

Maybe they even grew up around there or met the mom or dad or kids in crossing somewhere else close by. If he saw mom and dad doting on baby and not paying attention to the other two, maybe he noticed and followed them a bit. And just waited for perfect time. Abductions are rare but they happen.

I live on West Coast and still don't forget MIchael Dunahee. Rare abduction that was ballsy as heck, still frustrating that never got solved :(
 
  • #808
DBM
 
  • #809
Reply to @Danaya
Wow! What an amazing post.
I was open to many possibilities Ive changed my mind 100x, but as time goes on, I keep ending up here (organized abduction)
So when I say no evidence of an abduction I meant opportunistic, I didn't separate opportunistic and organized.
so without actually saying organized in my first post, that's the way I lean.
 
Last edited:
  • #810
See above, my question is how do you know developmental delay is no reason for CPS to get involved.
I raised two developmentally delayed children, 1 autistic. I know plenty of other parents of delayed or disabled children. Never have I heard one whisper that this was somehow any of the parents' fault. CPS was never in the picture. The kids get assessed by doctors, specialists, school psychologist or nurse. Nothing to do with CPS.
 
  • #811
I wonder why the boot print hasn't been verified as belonging to the children? Surely that would be easy to match as they know the brand of boots and the size?

I'm puzzled about the blanket scrap too. Blankets don't just fall apart and although in thick bush it's easy to tear some fabrics, it's not so easy for a piece to detach - as in the phrase 'hanging on by a thread'. Presumably it's not a knitted blanket as although this would be easy to catch, a detached piece would be a strand of yarn and I don't think this could be described as a scrap of blanket. Fleece is common for kids blankets these days, I have a Walmart fleece blanket many years older than these children and I can't imagine a piece would tear off if I was carrying it or was wrapped in it in the woods. If it caught tight, I don't think a person would have the strength to tear it away. It would tear if it was caught in machinery though, so I hope this possibility is being looked at.
 
  • #812
I raised two developmentally delayed children, 1 autistic. I know plenty of other parents of delayed or disabled children. Never have I heard one whisper that this was somehow any of the parents' fault. CPS was never in the picture. The kids get assessed by doctors, specialists, school psychologist or nurse. Nothing to do with CPS.

Are you in Canada? Canadian Child Welfare Services might work different than these in the US.
 
  • #813
Thank you for the systematic angle, @Danaya
I also like to go through all the different scenarios separately, based on the known objective situation. And while statistically less likely scenarios are statistically less likely, they're just that - less likely, not impossible. If something happens, say, in 2 cases out of a 100, then these 2 cases do exist, and hard-to-solve cases (like this one appears to be so far) are in turn also more likely to be the statistical outliers... What a mess of a sentence!

While wandering remains a theoretical possibility, the lack of evidence and distance involved make it increasingly improbable.
This is not the focus of your post, but I must point out, that actually I interprete these vice versa: the existance of evidence and the distance involved make wandering theory more probable to me. AFAIK, pretty much the only "evidence" of, well, anything so far in this case is a child-sized boot print discovered in the woods on the pipeline trail: too far for little kids to know where home is and too close to be "not walkable" for little kids (1,2 km). What is more, no-one else has came forward and said that they visited the spot with their kids in that timeline (and there's rather few neighbours and it's not a hiking trail). No other prints were discovered (hevier adults should be more likely to leave prints, let alone veichles). So we have two missing kids and we have a single kid-sized footprint that no-one claims. Might be, that the one to claim that print, is one of the very missing kids from a walking distance away, imo.
BACKPACK NOT FOUND — Raises Serious Questions
This really is interesting in any scenario I consider.
Leads them into forest and toward waiting vehicle on pipeline trail.
I think that had a vehicle been on the pipeline trail, we would know - LE would know by the tracks and would be asking for dashcam from the nearest real roads etc. If a little child was able to leave a boot print, I would find it unlikely that a car driving any notable distance would leave no signs. There is, of course, always the possibility that the only driveable access near the found boot print was never checked for disturbances at entry points, but I really hope it was.
Questions to consider:
• Which route seems most plausible based on terrain and timing?
• Could someone unfamiliar with the area have pulled this off?
• What does the location of the potential evidence suggest, if anything?
• How likely is it that someone would know about the trail behind the house?
• Does the terrain suggest a planned abduction scenario, or a spontaneous choice?
When we consider different abduction options, then the front yard and main road route feels plausible for a stranger abduction. It might be a regular morning passenger on the route, who has seen the children before. If the time the children disappeared is sometime between 7 and 10, then this is pretty much in line with a) usual pre-school-bus time (does anyone know?) and b) with morning traffic to/at work. It would suggest an opportunistic attack with probable previous stalking and scouting. Two little kids in the middle of nowhere in a trailer would be something a predator would take a note of.
But then we still need someone elses foot to have made the boot print.

For now, I'm not feeling the backyard abduction theory, and for sure not for a stranger abduction, but maybe that's just me. As a kid who grew up in a house by the road with back yard facing the woods, I would go and chat with stopped cars just like my parents did (this happened regularly in summer, usually someone asking for directions or similar), but a stranger walking out of the woods is something that never happened and I would be creeped and looking for mommy! New situation, how should I act etc.

It might be a combination - the kids wandered off and then got abducted. But this, too, I would see happening with them adventuring by the main road, not if they go into the woods.

I can theoretically also see a planned abduction by someone they knew, but 1) I lack the motive for that and 2) the timing feels a bit unusual for that. Maybe someone they knew could lure them into the forest with the aim of their car not being seen. But considering they were only marked absent in the morning, who would even know that the kids would stay at home? Someone close to the family might know that kids sometimes play by themselves, and that in the morning they can hope for the parents to be sleeping, showering etc, so not having their eyes on them so often. Bot how many people would know about that particular morning being a good option? And far ahead enough for any planning? With an ill kid, who might always re-develop symptoms and stay in bed?

From the abduction options, I favour stranger abduction by the road.
But the only evidence is the boot print that hints they were in the woods.
I am keeping the options open for now.
 
  • #814
I raised two developmentally delayed children, 1 autistic. I know plenty of other parents of delayed or disabled children. Never have I heard one whisper that this was somehow any of the parents' fault. CPS was never in the picture. The kids get assessed by doctors, specialists, school psychologist or nurse. Nothing to do with CPS.
In the cases you noted (yours) mandated reporters likely had no reason to question natural occurring developmental delays. Sometimes as professionals we can assess that developmental delays are environmentally caused (such as neglect) and could result in cps involvement
 
  • #815
Thank you for the post @Danaya . I'm of the opinion that IF this was an abduction. It was planned, the amount of time that the pre -planning took place is up for debate imo .

One thing for certain is if this was the case, the abductor knew the family's routine and was acutely aware the kids were home ,the only way for this not to be true ,is that a person familiar with the location and the presence of children is if they planned a weekend abduction and we're finalising details such as escape route and entry into yard . And happened to see the children on the Friday morning unattended and siezed the opportunity there and then rather than wait . I wonder was there any unusual absences from work from anyone even casually known to the family

This scenario only works if they had previously scoped out the place and possibly (my speculation) made a break in the fence ( the one Daniel repaired) for easy escape route into the forest . Was this person aware that Daniel repaired the fence the previous evening? Did they happen to engage in casual conversation the day before in New Glasgow? And happened to say in that casual chit chat that he planned to go home and repair the fence ? Was he buying supplies in a hardware that day for example the orange netting on the fencing we assumed was new ? Did they go there early Friday morning to prehaps find a new way in to the back yard ?

If its an abduction they knew the family and the area like you said it seems to me the likelihood of a stranger driving by on the road at the front of the house and happening upon the two kids in the Backyard and luring them in to a vehicle is probably a billion to one chance

I like the hypothesis that the children ( or at least one )was carried . If the two kids were carried even part of the way towards a waiting vehicle on the pipeline trail could one boot have fallen off loosened from a child's foot prehaps from readjusting position on an adults hip or an adult readjusting carrying position from a child slipping down from grip , which would make a thud hard enough to make an impression that prehaps walking would not and why only a partial print was found The abductor upon placing the children in the vehicle returned for the boot and therefore it wasn't found in the searches.

I'm actually starting to think this prehaps is a distinct possibility, outruling other scenarios
 
Last edited:
  • #816
Now that law enforcement has classified this case as a major unsolved crime, the possibility of abduction can no longer be overlooked.



Stats and behavioral trends in child abduction investigations.
I like your thinking! And your hard work!
 
  • #817
I am still stuck on the mother's boyfriend's early description of the kids - he said that Lily had a white backpack with strawberries "that would be brown now" or something along those lines, and mentioned that Jack might be without his pull-up.

Describing the backpack that way...made me wonder if he knew it was buried somewhere or in the trash. Or if he was just saying that Lily didn't take care of her things so she would have trashed the backpack if left to her own devices.

Jack being without his pull-up - same thing. He could have been implying that he already knows Jack isn't wearing a pull-up anymore - or, he could be saying that Jack was known for removing his pull-up himself, so he probably isn't wearing it anymore.

If the kids were abducted, there's no reason a white backpack would have gotten dirty enough to look brown - so it was odd to me that he talked about abduction while also describing the backpack that way. It could have been just odd stream of consciousness stuff he was saying under stress...or it could have deeper meaning.
 
  • #818
I can theoretically also see a planned abduction by someone they knew, but 1) I lack the motive for that
lack of motive to have to stage an abducton to get jack and lily out of there b/c she had every right to walk out the door with them. What if she was not brave enough to do that? and what about Meadow? what if she was pressured?
and 2) the timing feels a bit unusual for that.
Did Daniel know the kids were called in sick? If not, what a perfect time to strap meadow into a baby carrier and walk the kids out to the bus stop, while someone is waiting,
At the same time, why bother with all of that, if she was afraid, she could have let them go to school and then went and picked them up from there.
Noone knows what really happened that morning.
 
Last edited:
  • #819
Now that law enforcement has classified this case as a major unsolved crime, the possibility of abduction can no longer be overlooked.

JMO/IMO. I’ll cite only public sources below. This post focuses solely on the physical environment, known timeline, and feasible movement through the terrain.

So, how could a double child abduction occur in such a quiet, remote, and sparsely populated area?

I’ve spent hours compiling and cross-referencing all available information to outline two possible working theories: a planned abduction versus an opportunistic one.

Below is a breakdown—condensed to the best of my ability—of the terrain, property layout, and the potential abduction routes that may have been used.




SECTION 1: CASE OVERVIEW

Last confirmed public sighting
: Afternoon of May 1, 2025 — Jack (4) and Lilly (6) Sullivan seen on surveillance with family.

Disappearance: On the morning of May 2, parents reported hearing both children inside the home. By ~10:00 a.m., they were gone.

The parents began searching the property and surrounding area immediately. When they were unable to locate the children, the children’s mother contacted RCMP to report them missing.

Residence: Trailer-style home in Lansdowne Station, NS, near a wooded pipeline corridor ~8 km from Hwy 104.

Exit: Believed children left through silent sliding rear door, into backyard.

Evidence found 1.2 km NE of home: one child-sized boot print + piece of fabric (family believes from Lilly’s blanket).

RCMP has not confirmed the fabric's origin, nor have they conclusively stated that the bootprint matches with either Lilly or Jack.

Despite extensive search and rescue, no additional signs were found.





SECTION 2: PROPERTY LAYOUT & ACCESS

View attachment 597051
Small trailer-style home located on Gairloch Road inLansdowne Station, Pictou County, NS.

Gairloch Road is a quiet, rural route with light local traffic and sparse housing. It connects to Mount Thom Road and leads to Highway 104, approximately 8 km away.

The nearest town is New Glasgow (~30 km northeast). Nearby communities include Churchville, River John, and West Branch.

View attachment 597059
Map of Sullivan residence in rural Pictou County, Nova Scotia, showing proximity to Mount Thom Road, West Branch, and Highway 104. Dense forest surrounds the home, offering multiple access points via wooded terrain.

Yard contents include children’s toys, a plastic play structure, and signs of frequent outdoor activity.

The rear yard is not fully enclosed—a partial wire fence surrounds some of the property, but several sections are broken or missing, making entry easy.

A sliding glass door at the back exits to a downward slope leading directly into the forest.

The front of the home faces Gairloch Road, with forest directly across the street.


View attachment 597042
Aerial view of the Sullivan home facing Gairloch Road. Note the direct forest access at rear of property, the minimal fencing, and forested area across the road — all factors potentially relevant in an abduction scenario.




SECTION 3: WANDERING THEORY (Unlikely)

  • No continuous tracks or scent trail.
  • Boot print and fabric found 1.2 km from home — challenging distance for two young children.
  • Jack and Lily would have needed to travel ~1.2 km into the forest — a journey considered highly unlikely for children aged 4 and 6, especially without leaving more evidence behind.
  • Extensive search efforts (ground crews, scent dogs, aerial/drones, infrared surveillance, 160+ personnel) have yielded no trace of either child.
  • Terrain includes dense woods, wetlands, and uneven slopes.
  • Despite exhaustive efforts, including multiple search phases, nothing definitive has been uncovered to suggest the children simply wandered off.
While wandering remains a theoretical possibility, the lack of evidence and distance involved make it increasingly improbable.





SECTION 4: EVIDENCE CONTEXT — BOOT PRINT & FABRIC

A child’s boot print was located on May 3rd, approximately 1.2 km from the residence, along a wooded service trail connected to a pipeline corridor.

It has not been confirmed whether the print belonged to Lilly or Jack, but for the purposes of this analysis, it is presumed to be Lilly’s.

May have resulted from a moment of resistance, pivot, or stumble.

Spring terrain (pine, moss, leaf cover) may have obscured additional or lighter tracks.

A piece of fabric was located nearby — believed by family to be from Lilly’s blanket.

No additional trail, debris, or damage to foliage was reported in the area.


View attachment 597047
Clothing and Accessories — Footwear worn by Jack (top) and Lily (middle), along with Lily’s ladybug backpack (bottom). None of these items have been recovered.


BACKPACK NOT FOUND — Raises Serious Questions

According to Major Crimes investigators, Lilly was wearing a backpack at the time she disappeared.
Despite extensive search efforts, it has never been located.

If the children had simply wandered off into the woods and succumbed to the elements, the backpack should have turned up.
Its continued absence strongly suggests human intervention — potentially someone who removed the children and concealed or kept their belongings.




SECTION 5: POTENTIAL ENTRY & EXIT SCENARIOS


View attachment 597058
Map of Nova Scotia highlighting Highway 104 through Pictou County — a potential escape route for an abductor traveling east or west across the province.


A. Opportunistic Abduction — Front or Side Yard

  • Offender spots children playing unsupervised near the front or side of the home, possibly within view of the tree line.
  • Uses lure (e.g., puppy, reward, request for help) to engage them.
  • Leads or escorts one or both children toward a waiting vehicle.

➤ Strengths: Quick access and fast departure via Gairloch Road to Mount Thom Rd then on to Highway 104 — allowing the abductor to leave the area rapidly and undetected.

➤ Weaknesses: High visibility from road; no confirmed front- or side-yard sighting; doesn’t align with boot print/fabric location unless staged — the rear trail is not along this route.

Additional Context: Opportunistic child abductions are extremely rare — accounting for less than 1% of non-family abductions (NCMEC, U.S. data). These events require a precise convergence of time, opportunity, and motive. Still, not impossible, especially in rural areas with minimal visibility or oversight.

Potential offenders might include:

  • Traveling tradespeople or delivery drivers
  • Neighbors, visiting friends or family, or service personnel associated with nearby properties
  • Hunters or fishermen familiar with local access points or trails


B. Organized Abduction — Rear Trail Access

  • Offender familiar with area enters through woods behind property.
  • Approaches quietly, intercepts children from rear yard.
  • Leads them into forest and toward waiting vehicle on pipeline trail.

Strengths: Matches boot print/fabric location and offers concealment from neighbors or passing traffic. Allows for approach and exit without using the main road or driveway.

Weaknesses: Requires careful planning, confidence, and physical endurance. Risk of unexpected adult presence in home or neighborhood remains a deterrent.

Additional Context: In solved stranger abductions involving more than one child, investigators often uncover signs of planning — things like prior surveillance, familiarity with the area, or use of a lure. These elements appear in the majority of documented U.S. cases (NCMEC/NISMART data).

Offender may be someone on the periphery of the family’s life — a casual acquaintance, neighbor, or someone aware of their living situation.

May have observed children playing in the backyard on previous days. Play equipment, toys, or other visual cues would have clearly indicated the presence of young children.

May have known that May 2 was a PD day, meaning the children would be home and possibly outside.

Familiarity with back trails or local terrain would allow for an escape route that avoids the main roads entirely.




SECTION 6: POSSIBLE ABDUCTION PATHWAY & TIMELINE


View attachment 597060
Hypothetical escape route illustrating an abductor’s approach from the pipeline trail, trekking ~15–18 minutes through wooded terrain to reach the rear of the Sullivan property — consistent with the location of physical evidence found ~1.2 km northeast of the home.
  • Offender parks 4x4 on pipeline trail, ~1.2 km NE of home.
  • Walks through woods to rear of property (~15–18 min).
  • Engages children in yard. Children may have been lured willingly — e.g., promise of adventure, seeing an animal — or subtly threatened. Both may have complied voluntarily or under fear.
  • Leads children through wooded trail back to vehicle (~25–30 min): Jack (4) likely carried in arms or on hip. Lilly (6) may have walked, or been carried on back.
  • Loads children into vehicle and drives toward Hwy 104.

Total estimated duration: ~45–55 minutes.



Questions to consider:
• Which route seems most plausible based on terrain and timing?
• Could someone unfamiliar with the area have pulled this off?
• What does the location of the potential evidence suggest, if anything?
• How likely is it that someone would know about the trail behind the house?
• Does the terrain suggest a planned abduction scenario, or a spontaneous choice?


Disclaimer: I’ve spent hours reviewing maps, timelines, and confirmed details to explore a possibility that hasn’t been widely discussed: a potential abduction, based on terrain, access points, and where (potential) evidence was found.

This post isn’t about dismissing other theories — just taking a step back from speculation and focusing on what the scene itself might be telling us.

Everything here is just my opinion, and I hope people stay open to different possibilities as more information becomes available. With so little confirmed so far, it’s easy to get locked into one idea. I want to stay open minded, as tunnel vision never helps in any case.




Sources:

Nova Scotia Major Crime Reward – Jack & Lilly Sullivan
Official case listing; includes missing persons details, clothing, and reward.

CBC News – New Details of Investigation
Reports encrypted radio traffic about a blanket possibly linked to the case.

Global News – Surveillance & Search Efforts
Covers early search efforts and video footage obtained by RCMP.
OIG Audit Report 09-08
U.S. DOJ / FBI – Child Abduction Patterns (OIG)
Stats and behavioral trends in child abduction investigations.

Totally appreciate that you stuck to credible journalisitic sources. The detail you have provided based on that information is stellar and likely spot on in terms of what happened to L&J.

Thank you.
 
  • #820
“Lilly and Jack's mother and stepfather have both spoken to the media about how the siblings could have autism, but it has not been diagnosed.”

Below is how an autistic diagnosis is obtained in the Province of Nova Scotia. It’s probable the school recognized the children should be tested for autism due to developmental delays, the school does not diagnosis autism. In Canada schools can obtain additional funding for teacher aids to support an autistic student but not if the parents do not (or refuse to) obtain an autism diagnosis. I think this situation could result in a referral by the school to Child Welfare under the umbrella of neglect in the area of attention to educational wellbeing.
JMO

Autism Assessments for Children

Option one: IWK

The only public access point for getting a childhood autism assessment in Nova Scotia is through the IWK or Nova Scotia Health, Mental Health & Addictions Department. The autism assessments are completed for children up to the age of 18 years old. To access this option, make an appointment with your family doctor or a physician/pediatrician that is familiar with your child, and based on their recommendations, they can make a referral to the IWK/Mental Health & Addictions for an autism assessment. Currently, the IWK has autism teams for both preschool and school-age with a waitlist and this option is publicly funded and is a free service through MSI. You may also self-refer through the non-urgent NS Health central intake line in your region Nova Scotia Mental Health and Addictions (nshealth.ca)

Option two: Private
The second option for accessing an autism diagnosis in childhood is through private practice psychological services that offer autism assessments. This option is paid for out of pocket or through your private insurance provider. Check with your insurance provider to see if psychological assessments are covered under your plan. If you would like a list of private practice psychological service providers that do childhood autism assessments in Nova Scotia, please contact your local coordinator.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Guardians Monthly Goal

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
103
Guests online
1,159
Total visitors
1,262

Forum statistics

Threads
635,669
Messages
18,681,721
Members
243,346
Latest member
Mona.Kugel
Back
Top