CANADA Canada - Jack, 4 & Lilly Sullivan, 6, Vulnerable, wandered from home 10am, Gairloch Rd, Landsdowne Station, Pictou County, NS, 2 May 2025 #5

[ginestra]

More likely, it seems to me, is that one or both of the children were upset or decided to head off, possibly by a (non-violent) grumpy "Go play!!!" reaction by tired parent(s) to the usual morning energy of a 4 and 6 YO anxious to get the day started. Once outside, either J went beyond boundaries and L went to follow him, or vice versa, or they went together

This is what I am thinking too. We can't be certain how long really before checked on. And that lies blame on both honestly. The kids deserved better for sure.

 

[musicaljoke]

This was probably posted earlier, but it is a good account of why rescuers believe the children are still in the bush. It's a really tough place to search.

One of the comments from the searcher is that team members could practically reach out and touch each other in the bush, but not be able to see each other. It was that thick.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6805395

 

[musicaljoke]

This was probably posted earlier, but it is a good account of why rescuers believe the children are still in the bush. It's a really tough place to search.

One of the comments from the searcher is that team members could practically reach out and touch each other in the bush, but not be able to see each other. It was that thick.

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.6805395

The video also mentions that the searchers found an old mineshaft and sent down a drone, but found it was undisturbed. There were also crevices that they tried to look down into as far as they could see. But this searcher was not convinced that the children would have been found even with the number of searchers and the time devoted to the search.

 

[Jw192]

One theory that I've kept to myself as I wasn't sure it was logical and borderline conspiracy

Daniel mentions in his interview and he also addresses the rumours about a drug party and lots of cars in the driveway and that he is aware of why and who it came from . He also states there is more to the case than meets the eye and more evidence known than the public is aware of .

Maleyha on the morning of the disappearance claimed in the phone call to the RCMP that lilly and jack had been abducted.

Now here is my thoughts using that information. What if family members ,relatives or others confronted the parents the night before about cps involvement and possibly threw accusations of them neglecting the two children hence the vehicles in the driveway and with loud noise and possibly many people a passing neighbour might precieve it as a party of some sort .

Arguments ensued and escalated and possible threats of removal of the children if they didn't buck up their act . . Hence 54 people hauled in for questioning and some are given polygraphs maybe the ones that insinuated that they would take lilly and jack or those that formed part of the confronting party .

Now whether or not that person followed through on the threat or the kids wandered off / ran away as they felt to blame for the argument. They are still gone . And there is no lead as to how

Maleyha's first thought of abduction then doesn't seem so absurd and her family's accusations don't seem so either as in well it's your fault Daniel it has come to this . The mother of Maleyha removes her from the situation and she now knows but is not saying anything as she is protecting herself from prosecution and lilly and jack . The person who has them feels they did the right thing and that as its a family matter don't say anything as they don't like authorities hence the confrontation in the first place .

I'm aware that this post is probably amusing at best and conflicts with my earlier post of putting scenarios of a hand over to bed but I'm trying to think outside of the box and it's not a hand over but a deliberate removal of the children from the home , prehaps the relative returned to "chat " with the parents after having some time to think saw the children unsupervised and thought ' nothing is going to change , come on kids into the car and off they go

This is pretty much my theory so far. I believe someone who cares for these babies removed them from the home due to fears of maybe neglect/harm/possible child services involvement, and it's all snowballed now and they're terrified of the legal repercussions of it.

Could be completely off base and just wishful thinking that they're safe, but the longer it goes on and the more droplets of information we get... It seems most likely something like that as opposed to them wandering off and not a trace being found bar a boot print - that could have been there ages, and a bit of blanket - again that could have been there ages. I'm also wandering further away from the possibility that these babies were dead when the 911 call was made too, something would have been uncovered by LE by now. Oh and a stranger abduction? Nah, the least likely out of all.

MOO

 

[Bigditch]

DM’s mom (and I think brother) live in the RV. Idk if they were home the morning of the disappearance, tho.

IMO

It would be helpful to know that information.

 

[Bigditch]

And the RV was never mentioned in any account of DM's or MBM's initial search for the children. There could be a logical reason for this (it was locked / nobody was home), but absolutely nothing was said about the RV until about Day 4 or Day 5, which is also when we learned about MBM's mother making accusations, and MBM leaving, etc. This was also the first and last time we saw/heard about DM's brother Justin - a Globe & Mail article had a picture of him on an ATV, although he wasn't facing the camera.

I think the pic reflects the first day of the search. He's wearing rubber boots.

 

[musicaljoke]

I also note that, while financially comfortable myself, I personally could not afford to buy or maintain an ATV. Yet DM owns one, which I am sure, even if purchased used, cost in the thousands. How does he afford it? Which makes me wonder/speculate if there is an alternate stream of income from criminal enterprise. I concede it is possible MBM has some sort of income stream.
If there is an association with a criminal element, even if MBM stood by while DM was involved in it, and it exposed her children to a dangerous element, it could be difficult for MBM to confess this to law enforcement, given that it could jeopardize her custody of her youngest daughter.
This might explain why MBM would go along with DM in terms of telling the same story about what happened that morning. It would also explain her hasty end to the relationship with DM. She may have found herself to be between a rock and a hard place.
This is just me casting about for possible scenarios.
IMO

Respectfully trimmed by me for focus ...

In rural parts such as this, pretty much everyone has an ATV. It's not a status symbol or considered evidence of a high income. It's considered in the same way a farmer would have a tractor. ATVs can be purchased used. They are essential for hauling firewood from the bush, may be used for plowing the laneway, for hunting, and for getting around locally. A wealthier person would have at least one for every adult plus a brand new pickup truck.

 

[Bigditch]

BBM

I'd wondered about post-natal depression, too, especially since IIRC the grandma said that the last time she saw the kids was right around the time that Meadow was born

Did she actually say that, the grandmother? Can you please tag the source info? Thanks

 

[Sarahlou]

Did she actually say that, the grandmother? Can you please tag the source info? Thanks

She said she'd not seen them for about a year and a half IIRC. It was in the TV interview she did.

 

[Bigditch]

She said she'd not seen them for about a year and a half IIRC. It was in the TV interview she did.

Actually, she said 2 years in the cbc article. I thought maybe you'd caught her in a lie is all.

 

[iveyguy]

Did she actually say that, the grandmother? Can you please tag the source info? Thanks

"The last time Gray saw Lilly and Jack was nearly two years ago."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/lilly-jack-sullivan-grandmother-missing-children-1.7563400

 

[Toniab329]

It would be helpful to know that information.

I'm sure LE knows. And has questioned everyone who lives there, even if they weren't at home.

 

[TMich6811]

Definitely if my child or children disappeared I would check the motor home first and shed. It’s weird to me that wasn’t mentioned

 

[Sillybilly]

One little off topic post and we have to read through the following 10 pages to remove the responses.

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random

To any members who have complained about removal of their off topic posts and TOs issued for derailing the discussion.

There is a very good reason Off Topic posts are a violation of Websleuths TOS.

First of all, the threads are not personal chat or comedy rooms. Off topic posts derail the thread, making the thread all about you and what you want to talk about. Each day, hundreds of members and thousands of guests come to Websleuths to read about the topic the thread is dedicated to, not to read about you or your life or what you think is funny or another case that you are thinking about. It is disrespectful to the victims who these threads are dedicated to.

The one thread you post off topic in is not the only active thread that Mods and Admins deal with every day. WS has thousands of threads, 230,000+ members, and only 4 staff to deal with hundreds of active threads 24/7 .

Simple math ... if there are 200 members currently online and even 5% of those members feel it is okay to sneak in that innocuous little off topic post, and each of those 10 posts receives 10 responses and those responses receive even 2 responses each, that is 200 off topic posts alone that our volunteer Moderators would have to search for and remove in a day (in addition to all the other TOS violations they have to deal with).

This means that for your little post that you think is harmless, our staff have to go through pages and pages of posts to find all the responses to your OT post.

Please be courteous to other members, the families and guests reading here, and to our volunteer staff who work very hard in trying to keep the discussions respectful and on topic.

Thank you.

 

[Innotts]

Is it possible that someone known to L & J arranged to meet them in advance? I was imagining something along the lines of school has concerns hence visit in recent past, details of neglect (or alleged neglect) become known to family member or friend of bio dad. They want to remove them, and speak to L & J either when they see them normally or engineer a situation (e.g at/near school) and say I’ll take you somewhere amazing on Friday, you just need to quietly leave and come to the road at X time. Would L be able to tell the time? Could they give her a small alarm? Or the time could be less fixed. They go off and are with the family member/friend of bio dad. Mum and partner are telling the truth (or at least broadly speaking) that the kids must have gone out on their own. And mum left because off her mums insistence at a time she was super vulnerable, and because she genuinely doesn’t know if partner could be involved. She thinks he wouldn’t, but can’t be sure cos nothing seems likely anymore when looking for answers. I guess I’m thinking this cos it explains why only L & J? And they could feel it’s justified for L & Js safety. Or maybe I’m going mad cos I’m in England and it’s 2.30am!

 

[Absoluterubbish]

Is it possible that someone known to L & J arranged to meet them in advance? I was imagining something along the lines of school has concerns hence visit in recent past, details of neglect (or alleged neglect) become known to family member or friend of bio dad. They want to remove them, and speak to L & J either when they see them normally or engineer a situation (e.g at/near school) and say I’ll take you somewhere amazing on Friday, you just need to quietly leave and come to the road at X time. Would L be able to tell the time? Could they give her a small alarm? Or the time could be less fixed. They go off and are with the family member/friend of bio dad. Mum and partner are telling the truth (or at least broadly speaking) that the kids must have gone out on their own. And mum left because off her mums insistence at a time she was super vulnerable, and because she genuinely doesn’t know if partner could be involved. She thinks he wouldn’t, but can’t be sure cos nothing seems likely anymore when looking for answers. I guess I’m thinking this cos it explains why only L & J? And they could feel it’s justified for L & Js safety. Or maybe I’m going mad cos I’m in England and it’s 2.30am!

I highly doubt that could happen without a 4 or 6 year old blurting it out to their parents.

 

[Innotts]

Good point, I don’t have kids so I’m not sure how good they are at keeping secrets!

I highly doubt that could happen without a 4 or 6 year old blurting it out to their parents.

 

[Gemmie]

Good point, I don’t have kids so I’m not sure how good they are at keeping secrets!

IMO it depends on the kid. A lot of kids can't keep secrets, IMO, but here's an example of one that can (me). I've told this story to many people over the years.

Second grade and some kid asked me what so-and-so's secret was. I said "If I told you their secret how could you trust me with your secret?". You should have seen the expression on their face as the wheels turned in their head. lol

So some kids can keep them, but I've never been considered your average person, even as a child, and now as an adult. But I'm going to guess it's rare for most kids to NOT tell a secret. JMO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Is it possible that someone known to L & J arranged to meet them in advance? I was imagining something along the lines of school has concerns hence visit in recent past, details of neglect (or alleged neglect) become known to family member or friend of bio dad. They want to remove them, and speak to L & J either when they see them normally or engineer a situation (e.g at/near school) and say I’ll take you somewhere amazing on Friday, you just need to quietly leave and come to the road at X time. Would L be able to tell the time? Could they give her a small alarm? Or the time could be less fixed. They go off and are with the family member/friend of bio dad. Mum and partner are telling the truth (or at least broadly speaking) that the kids must have gone out on their own. And mum left because off her mums insistence at a time she was super vulnerable, and because she genuinely doesn’t know if partner could be involved. She thinks he wouldn’t, but can’t be sure cos nothing seems likely anymore when looking for answers. I guess I’m thinking this cos it explains why only L & J? And they could feel it’s justified for L & Js safety. Or maybe I’m going mad cos I’m in England and it’s 2.30am!

I think it's a possibility, LE hasn't ruled anything out AFAIK.

And they have been reaching out to the wider social circles of the families and larger community to interview people about their disappearance according to an article linked upthread.

Perhaps there were some folks with legitimate concerns about their welfare or well being within the larger community/extended family/school arenas.

I could see this type of scenario play out without Lilly or Jack telling their parents.

Especially if they were struggling or unhappy in their current situation, and a trusted person they knew and felt safe with having a secret with asked them not to tell.

JMO

 

[Absoluterubbish]

IMO it depends on the kid. A lot of kids can't keep secrets, IMO, but here's an example of one that can (me). I've told this story to many people over the years.

Second grade and some kid asked me what so-and-so's secret was. I said "If I told you their secret how could you trust me with your secret?". You should have seen the expression on their face as the wheels turned in their head. lol

So some kids can keep them, but I've never been considered your average person, even as a child, and now as an adult. But I'm going to guess it's rare for most kids to NOT tell a secret. JMO

Definitely possible for kids to keep secrets - but highly unlikely they would keep a secret like someone taking them out/away from their mum at that age and also remembering there is two children, two times the likelihood to tell mum.